Can estrogen crash cause desensitization/knock out of the estrogen receptor - lets discuss!

[susuzadam]

Npp+tren+E2 might be interesting. But I think that you would need injectable E2 like enanthate or cypionate, maybe valerate, since npp+tren won't provide enough aromatization (https://diyhrt.cafe/index.php/ has sources for e2).
Npp and tren both have progestogenic activity which might downregulate ER further in some cases. It's hard to predict that. I guess experimentation is the only way.

Something I noticed before these. I didn't inject tren for 1 week, and just only short ester testosterone. When I inject tren, my libido dropped to zero after hours. I think this is probably estrogen receptor non responding, resistance whatever..

 

[zancek0]

Something I noticed before these. I didn't inject tren for 1 week, and just only short ester testosterone. When I inject tren, my libido dropped to zero after hours. I think this is probably estrogen receptor non responding, resistance whatever..

Information like this is very valuable. Thanks.
Estrogen signalling can get vastly inhibited by excess progesterone and dht activity.

 

[susuzadam]

Information like this is very valuable. Thanks.
Estrogen signalling can get vastly inhibited by excess progesterone and dht activity.

My curiosity is, I was injecting 0.2-0.25 prop everyday without tren. And same with tren.
Dht + progesterone activity trashed my libido on the same day. Who knows which signal is stronger.
Also to mention, while doing solo testosterone, my joints were still dry af.

Wanna try high doses of e2, but its expensive. I looked your source, my source offers 10 gram estradiol valerate for 50bucks. If I had money, I would brew my own e2.

And thinking about, dht signalling stronger than progesterone, If It's like that, only nandrolone can solve dry joint issue, and maybe libido problem too.

 

[susuzadam]

my TRT+E2 protocol (8mg test e ED + 0.1mg estradiol e ED)

Were you dialed in with this protocol? What happens If I drop my test dose even more for e2 to catch up?

 

[zancek0]

My curiosity is, I was injecting 0.2-0.25 prop everyday without tren. And same with tren.
Dht + progesterone activity trashed my libido on the same day. Who knows which signal is stronger.
Also to mention, while doing solo testosterone, my joints were still dry af.

Wanna try high doses of e2, but its expensive. I looked your source, my source offers 10 gram estradiol valerate for 50bucks. If I had money, I would brew my own e2.

And thinking about, dht signalling stronger than progesterone, If It's like that, only nandrolone can solve dry joint issue, and maybe libido problem too.

When on solo test - do your joints ache or click or are just dry/stiff? Are only some affected? And what about anxiety - can you relax or is there always some tension?

Yeah, possibly nandrolone can fix that. I'm interested to hear how you respond to it.

 

[zancek0]

Were you dialed in with this protocol? What happens If I drop my test dose even more for e2 to catch up?

No, I did not feel dialed in. But - I actually didn't give it enough time. In fact, I should have tried this protocol for at least 1-2 months before deciding what to do with it. I had to drop it because it was giving me too much fatigue and I've just started a new job... I might try this again but I want to get natty first and try to recover in that way. Also, my E2 dose was quite low.

The difference between people crashing by arimidex vs aromasin might be in that the first have "OK" E2 levels in blood but still feel the symptoms. The latter have a hard time aromatizing - possibly due to significant aromatase downregulation. But this hasnt yet been confirmed. I'll see once I get off and test my natural levels where I am. Before the crash my E2 levels were actually a bit too high. So now after the crash with aromasin they might be too low...

 

[susuzadam]

When on solo test - do your joints ache or click or are just dry/stiff? Are only some affected? And what about anxiety - can you relax or is there always some tension?

My both knees started to hurt while going up stairs at the same time. Sometimes they just ached while im sitting in home, like grandmas. And my lower back started to round, and hurt, cant squat 3set 5 rep x 3 per week anymore. I can maybe squat some sets every 15-20 days.

I cant define its anxiety. I'm constantly trying to find solution.

Also I could try, vigorous steve's lazy mans trt protocol. @Cataceous also mentioned when test dose upped more than enough, dht:e2 ratio skews to the e2 side.
While I was injecting 40mg prop 40mg tren a day, paranoia was there, When I took proviron with 25mg test a day with tren, paranoia got very mild.

50mg test ace EoD, or 25mg test ace ED + e2 tabs afternoon and evening.

While on test ace 40mg + tren ace 40mg, I urinate 3 times a night, but I want to go to gym crush the weights or want to talk my gf.

For 3 days, I'm injecting 10mg test ace 30mg tren ace a day. My libido dropped really, my apetite too.
I shot 50mg test ace recently. And I will try to solve my problem with test + e2 only. And of course I will inject npp but as a protective.
Everyone, myself too once a time, sustains t:e2 ratio somehow, and their knees and back don't hurt. I think maybe 25mg test ace morning, and estradiol tabs afternoon and night have chance to solve the problem

 

[zancek0]

I cant define its anxiety. I'm constantly trying to find solution.

Yeah, I mean anxiety as a physical symptom, like chest tightness.

Also I could try, vigorous steve's lazy mans trt protocol. @Cataceous also mentioned when test dose upped more than enough, dht:e2 ratio skews to the e2 side.
While I was injecting 40mg prop 40mg tren a day, paranoia was there, When I took proviron with 25mg test a day with tren, paranoia got very mild.

That's a good point. Interesting.

So I see it like this: E2 might fix this but it will be a bandaid. A good one but still... I want to solve this in a way so that we won't need any bandaids. So that we can be natty with 0 low e2 symptoms etc.

 

[Cataceous]

.... @Cataceous also mentioned when test dose upped more than enough, dht:e2 ratio skews to the e2 side.
...

Doesn't sound like something I would have said. The skew seems like more in the other direction. If you look at some models then you see that the trend is towards a decrease in the E2/DHT ratio. Both 5ar and aromatase saturate at higher testosterone doses, but the increasing testosterone is also increasing androgenicity, like DHT. This could explain the claim that it's possible to raise the testosterone dose high enough to ameliorate symptoms of high estradiol, even if it's not advisable.

 

[susuzadam]

These where I came from to this topic. Low shbg problem + low e2 problems. I dont know what really explains this issue.
Like everyone, I want to use minimum testosterone dosage to feel normal.

 

[zancek0]

View attachment 35432View attachment 35433View attachment 35434View attachment 35435
These where I came from to this topic. Low shbg problem + low e2 problems. I dont know what really explains this issue.
Like everyone, I want to use minimum testosterone dosage to feel normal.

Dhts wreck libido because you need enough E2 to balance it off. E2 is what drives libido.
Btw, what are your SHBG levels precisely?

 

[susuzadam]

Dhts wreck libido because you need enough E2 to balance it off. E2 is what drives libido.
Btw, what are your SHBG levels precisely?2

4april2023



Before roids.

 

[susuzadam]

low shbg here, 1 injection a week now, along with hcg it works, for some freaking reason. I do 250mg ONCE a week, works WAYYY better than the ED and EOD protocols.

Also remember, we dont even know if low shbg means e2 dominant ,it might aswell mean dht dominant! We have a thread about that on here.

25 jan 2023.

Low SHBG Experimenting with One Large Shot E10D

Heads up to roscoe88 who also talked about this. Long story short: Been struggling for years and years with my libido on TRT. Doing ed, eod, ai, no ai blabla. Very random libido, sometimes decent, usually pure shit. Eventually settled with doing 10mg ed (or large doses of npp) to keep a...

forums.t-nation.com

20 april 2022.

Equel seems like offline, but I think he is using the same protocol I think so.

We just talked about low aromatization in this topic, but have someone ever tried injecting 1x week supraphysiological dose of test.

I'm injecting testosterone acetate 50mg a day for 4 days, monk libido. Like I'm 50 years old or so.

Today I will inject 1ml or plus test-e, and gonna inject only test-e with tren npp.

 

[zancek0]

I see, that's quite low. I wonder why. Btw, do you have a history of SSRI use or finasteride use? Or heavy duty antibiotics?

I suppose it's worth a shot doing less frequent injections.

 

[susuzadam]

I see, that's quite low. I wonder why. Btw, do you have a history of SSRI use or finasteride use? Or heavy duty antibiotics?

I suppose it's worth a shot doing less frequent injections.

I didn't use any SSRI. Some wellbutrin and aromasin. But after wellbutrin nothing changed I think so. It seemed like e2 and t problem always.

From reddit bigggeee said he is low aromatizer, from ugbodybuilding Dtren800 said he is high aromatizer. Both of them feel hypo on low doses of testosterone, and both of them have low SHBG levels.

And I, when using fast ester testosterone, always my knees hurt. I think low shbg causes to testosterone metabolize faster before aromatize to e2.
That never happened last year with long ester testosterone 500mg/w, and when I was not using steroids, even my e2 was 17.


Also want to update.. I'm on npp 25mg everyday. On the third day, my back pain and my knee pain gone.

@Systemlord said something in t-nation.

And my recent history, 0.25 test ace + 8mg estradiol valerate just gave me more energy, almost zero joint relief.

I will be consistent my last protocol, and I will be injecting test-e or cyp 2x week, because I want to aromatize fast and lower my npp dose to 5mg/day.

I wish I could feel good on 10mg test ace/day, just felt hypo, even with tren. Or with 35-50 mg test ace-prop I was feeling life, but my knees and back pains too.
Or just inject 100mg test-e/week and feel normal again, without my pains.

 

[Gman86]

I didn't use any SSRI. Some wellbutrin and aromasin. But after wellbutrin nothing changed I think so. It seemed like e2 and t problem always.

From reddit bigggeee said he is low aromatizer, from ugbodybuilding Dtren800 said he is high aromatizer. Both of them feel hypo on low doses of testosterone, and both of them have low SHBG levels.

And I, when using fast ester testosterone, always my knees hurt. I think low shbg causes to testosterone metabolize faster before aromatize to e2.
That never happened last year with long ester testosterone 500mg/w, and when I was not using steroids, even my e2 was 17.


Also want to update.. I'm on npp 25mg everyday. On the third day, my back pain and my knee pain gone.

@Systemlord said something in t-nation.

And my recent history, 0.25 test ace + 8mg estradiol valerate just gave me more energy, almost zero joint relief.

I will be consistent my last protocol, and I will be injecting test-e or cyp 2x week, because I want to aromatize fast and lower my npp dose to 5mg/day.

I wish I could feel good on 10mg test ace/day, just felt hypo, even with tren. Or with 35-50 mg test ace-prop I was feeling life, but my knees and back pains too.
Or just inject 100mg test-e/week and feel normal again, without my pains.

Why don’t u try and get the best of both worlds and use the test ace/prop combo along with the minimum effective dose of npp to relieve joint pain?

 

[susuzadam]

Why don’t u try and get the best of both worlds and use the test ace/prop combo along with the minimum effective dose of npp to relieve joint pain?

I think ace + npp + tren made me too much calm.
Without npp I was more agressive, and seems like a much more libido. 25mg test ace + tren everyday. Even this cant race with the old protocol 500 test-e + tren.

I dont talk about 50mg test ace ed + tren because libido is lower than 25mg test ace ed + tren.

I dont really know, I was unsatisfied and not lazy back then. Now I'm lazy, and I'm okay if I dont go gym or not.
Npp might be usefull for elbow tendinitis due to overuse injury while I was squatting regularly.
@equel says e10d 300-500mg test long ester.
And the others use the same dosages 2x week or so.

Test-e 500 + tren
Libido 10/10
Apetite 8-9/10 (10/10 with humalog insulin)

Test-a 175mg + tren
Libido 6/10
Apetite 5/10

Test-a 175mg + tren + estradiol 4mg AM 4mg PM
Libido 6-7/10
Apetite 7

 

[zancek0]

Also want to update.. I'm on npp 25mg everyday. On the third day, my back pain and my knee pain gone.

Thanks for the update.

Have you considered going off TRT for a HPTA reset and then going back?

 

[susuzadam]

Thanks for the update.

Have you considered going off TRT for a HPTA reset and then going back?

No i haven't. My joints feel better now, and squatted today. No more time to spend without leg days

 

[zancek0]

Doesn't sound like something I would have said. The skew seems like more in the other direction. If you look at some models then you see that the trend is towards a decrease in the E2/DHT ratio. Both 5ar and aromatase saturate at higher testosterone doses, but the increasing testosterone is also increasing androgenicity, like DHT. This could explain the claim that it's possible to raise the testosterone dose high enough to ameliorate symptoms of high estradiol, even if it's not advisable.

Interesting. It might be that in the presence of higher test levels body regulates androgen:estrogen activity with greater ease by converting preferentially to DHT since DHT can get further converted to 3b-diol which is a relatively potent estrogen (much less than estradiol, though). If it would convert to estradiol excessively then it would likely dysregulate the balance much severely and swiftly. But then again, I suppose it's always about bioindividuality at the end of the day.