Can estrogen crash cause desensitization/knock out of the estrogen receptor - lets discuss!

[zancek0]

No i haven't. My joints feel better now, and squatted today. No more time to spend without leg days

Any update on your anhedonia/depression and libido on npp?

 

[susuzadam]

Any update on your anhedonia/depression and libido on npp?

No, after tren nothing is major, lol.

Also did not shoot test for 3 days. High test made me feel like shit too. Shooting npp 50mg everyday, 25mg tren everyday for 3 days.

I'm gonna try npp base. For 3 days my libido just goes up.

Dont want to buy estradiol, If I'm gonna blast and cruise, why should i bother myself with low test+e2 injections. It's harder than blast or cruise.

You can read equel's and robroy's post on t-nation about npp only.

And also Dtren has video too:

 

[Gman86]

No, after tren nothing is major, lol.

Also did not shoot test for 3 days. High test made me feel like shit too. Shooting npp 50mg everyday, 25mg tren everyday for 3 days.

I'm gonna try npp base. For 3 days my libido just goes up.

Dont want to buy estradiol, If I'm gonna blast and cruise, why should i bother myself with low test+e2 injections. It's harder than blast or cruise.

You can read equel's and robroy's post on t-nation about npp only.

And also Dtren has video too:

I believe shortly after this vid dtren discontinued his nandrolone only protocol. Think it was due to not enough estrogen, according to his symptoms. My buddy said he saw in his ig stories that he had discontinued it. I personally didn’t see any vid or clips of him talking about it

 

[susuzadam]

I believe shortly after this vid dtren discontinued his nandrolone only protocol. Think it was due to not enough estrogen, according to his symptoms. My buddy said he saw in his ig stories that he had discontinued it. I personally didn’t see any vid or clips of him talking about it

Okay, I'm okay this is a curse or sth else.

I want to live my life by feeling it, while studying my lessons and building muscles. My cognition, feelings are worse than last year.

Whoever rejects that aromasin is not responsible from that, and we should pct or sth else. I just want to use my brain again.

So I ordered e2 injections.

@Coconutz posts on forums, he said e2 valerate injection 2x a day. Idk why did he mention that, but trans guys just injected every 5 days, every 2 week periods or so.

Also in meso-rx para_33 says, 2mg estradiol valerate injection a week, increases his e2 levels by 30pg/ml.

I just hated this protocol, and thought "Do ı really need to support e2 exogenously, rlly?"

I inject testosterone, my joints become shittier day by day.

I inject npp with it, joints been good, than shittier again.

Last resort is estradiol valerate injections.

Also 10mg/ml, 0.2ml a week is very good for that purpose. Like nothing.

 

[zancek0]

@Coconutz posts on forums, he said e2 valerate injection 2x a day. Idk why did he mention that, but trans guys just injected every 5 days, every 2 week periods or so.

Yes, the problem is that coconutz likely deals with either downregulated aromatase or desensitivized estrogen receptors. The prog, dhea and pregnenolone he is making him much worse in this aspect.

I agree that aromasin caused this. I'm in this boat as well.
Let's revaluate. Beside test, npp - what supplements/meds are you still taking? And also, how much zinc were you supplementing with before the crash if any?

 

[susuzadam]

Yes, the problem is that coconutz likely deals with either downregulated aromatase or desensitivized estrogen receptors. The prog, dhea and pregnenolone he is making him much worse in this aspect.

I agree that aromasin caused this. I'm in this boat as well.
Let's revaluate. Beside test, npp - what supplements/meds are you still taking? And also, how much zinc were you supplementing with before the crash if any?

I was taking 15mg or so, sometimes 30mg zinc. Last 2 months about 5mg cialis everyday. I didn't know cialis's e2 lowering effect tho.

Now I take 20mg lisinopril, 5mg nebivolol
80mg npp a day, 20mg tren, no test or so. Some e2 pills to not to crush.

I ordered e2 valerate injection, 3 days later, I will update this topic.

 

[zancek0]

I was taking 15mg or so, sometimes 30mg zinc. Last 2 months about 5mg cialis everyday. I didn't know cialis's e2 lowering effect tho.

Now I take 20mg lisinopril, 5mg nebivolol
80mg npp a day, 20mg tren, no test or so. Some e2 pills to not to crush.

I ordered e2 valerate injection, 3 days later, I will update this topic.

Zinc every day? I ask this because up to now everyone I've talked to that still experiences lingering low e2 symptoms after crashing e2 supplemented moderate to high amounts of zinc prior to crashing.
Zinc has antiaromatase properties and is copper antagonizing (key mineral in estrogen function).

Good, so you stopped dostinex?
I wonder if lisinopril and nebivolol worsens this in some indirect way. I don't know yet.

 

[susuzadam]

Zinc every day? I ask this because up to now everyone I've talked to that still experiences lingering low e2 symptoms after crashing e2 supplemented moderate to high amounts of zinc prior to crashing.
Zinc has antiaromatase properties and is copper antagonizing (key mineral in estrogen function).

Good, so you stopped dostinex?
I wonder if lisinopril and nebivolol worsens this in some indirect way. I don't know yet.

I took zinc for semen volume, and was taking selenium 400mcg a day.

Now just taking some caber, e2 pills.

Today my e2 valerate injection will arrive, and I will shoot it.

 

[susuzadam]

Doesn't sound like something I would have said. The skew seems like more in the other direction. If you look at some models then you see that the trend is towards a decrease in the E2/DHT ratio. Both 5ar and aromatase saturate at higher testosterone doses, but the increasing testosterone is also increasing androgenicity, like DHT. This could explain the claim that it's possible to raise the testosterone dose high enough to ameliorate symptoms of high estradiol, even if it's not advisable.

I am sober for 3 days of tren.
2mg estradiol valerate and 20mg test ace morning.
10mg dbol evening

First day, spontane erections came, erections really got stronger. At around 5 pm, I became evil, low e2, anxiety really fucked up.

Second day same drugs, morning and noon great feelings, aroubd 5pm low e2 again.

Third day I want to add 75 mg test-cyp eod and injected. Same thing happened. 5pm shit feelings.

I woke up really good, morning erection, good mood, libido etc.

I thought dbol from evening aromatizes and holds the e2 line for some time, until it wears off.

I will take dbol 2x a day 10mg+10mg.

Do you think should I lower my test dosage, and how much should I inject?

 

[RAS]

Question, has anyone had there HOMOCYSTEINE levels tested?

 

[tengounapregunta]

THIS!!!!! Its been a while since ive a reported of my last year supplementing exogenous estrogens. I took Aromasin for years while bodybuilding, and also on trt doses. I ws messed up for years not realizing it, ALL WHILE HAVING PERFECT BLOODWORK. I cannot take ANY testosterone without feeling absolute shit now. Exponentially worse as the dose increases. Taking estrogen allows me to take as much testosterone as i want again. But i DONT want because i get higher blood pressure from higher test levels now at 42. My bodybuilding days are over. I was just seeing if e2 supplementation allowed me to.

I found for every 100mg of testosterone, i need 2mg oral estradiol valerate, 1mg am, 1mg pm. I find the half life is too short to dose once daily for me, so 2x daily. Low SHBG.. Ive tried injectable estradiol valerate as well, but it just doesnt feel the same as oral. Probably due to rock solid e2 levels. I have 17b Estradiol cream too for topical administration, which i havnt used much. Oral is like a potent espresso in the morning. I feel energy, libido, and positivity in minutes. Its like my brain turns back on after wards. Im able to supplement progesterone again and use scrotal cream, which destroyed me before E2 supplementation. The BEST, and most important part of my trt now, is Estradiol valerate.

About a month ago i stopped taking it for 2 weeks to see if my body produces any estrogen on its own again. NOPE. Slowly but surely im fucked again in 2 weeks time. MY tell tale sign of low e2 are night sweats, cant sleep at night yet sleep all day, frequent urination, gyno, ACNE, dry skin, bodyfat gain, no morning erections, and a prostate the size of a baseball. The emotional decay makes all that look like a walk in the park. I am literally terrified of stupid shit, emotional and cry over thinking the whole worlds out to get me. Anxiety isnt the word for it. Straight up terror of everything.

Ive also experimented with seeing what HIGH estrogen feels like by taking 2-3x more e2. High e2 feels pretty good for gym performance. EXTREME mental acuity, much fuller muscles from higher water retention, ZEROOOOOOOO libido but fully functioning dick with concrete busting boners. cardio definitely takes a hit when im training jiu itsu. i have endless energy ALL day and literally have to anesthetize myself to sleep. However, im an insufferable confrontational asshole with EVERYBODY that crosses my path when my e2 is too high.. Im not sure if USADA tests their male athletes for it, but Exogenous estradiol is absolutely a performance enhancer with high enough testosterone levels.

That said, and i dont care if yall flame me, but i havnt tested my hormone levels in years other than shbg which is always 15-20. While in a state of agony from misaligned hormones, shelling out thousands of dollars to clowns in white coats that dont even remember my name, and trying to keep my blood work on paper looking a certain way, made my condition much much worse and borderline suicidal. I for sure pull bloods for CBC and things like that, but not hormones. I feel like a million bucks right now, and wouldnt change it if somebody held a gun to my head. Has anybody ever been in the 'sweet spot honeymoon phase' for almost a year?? I have for the first time 8 years, and no longer consider it the honeymoon phase. Its from the estrogen. period. this is my protocol IM daily injestions

AM:
25mg test enanthate
10mg test prop
50mg scrotal cream.
50mg dhea oral
2mg Estradiol Valerate oral
1 grain Armor thyroid

PM
50mg pregnenelone scrotal cream
5mg Progesterone scrotal cream
2mg Estradiol Valerate oral

Im a firm believer in NOT having super stable hormone levels. Our bodies have a circadian rhythm for a reason. Being on straight enanthate makes me feel so dull and libido much less than with prop/cream. I absolutely feel the cream, and prop leave my body late afternoon. Which is perfect, because i like to go to bed by 8-9pm. If i have a date that night just apply 50mg more scrotal cream and im up all night ready to wear out the Misses.

As we all know, trt is not a one size fit all. This is just what works for me.

Yo coconutz!

I'm suffering from the same thing after crashing my E2 like 6 years ago. I'm interested in supplementing with E2. I'm currently not on TRT, I just came off of it. I didn't get much benefit out of it, in fact it made me worse with respect to debilitating fatigue. Maybe I needed E2.

I took an OTC aromatase inhibitor at the instruction of a teacher like 6 years ago and I crashed bad. Haven't felt the same since then. I wasn't on TRT then, I was just a naive kid who trusted this person.

Anyways, maybe I'll experiment with E2. I'm buying some hops extract to see how I respond to that.

thanks!

 

[glob]

I think I might’ve figured it out guys or at least in my case. It took me coming off testosterone going through anything and everything to reduce my stress in life/fix my ocd and reduce my anxiety and I believe the issue comes down to hpa axis dysfunction/overstimulation, depersonalization, adrenal fatigue, hppd or whatever you want to call it because it’s all the same thing. Obviously crashing your estrogen can cause anxiety, paranoia, a whole host of symptoms but for some of us who are already dealing with this on a daily basis (let alone without hormones thrown in) puts you in a constant state of fight or flight and when your nervous system is constantly overstimulated by any stressors whether it’s external or internal, your hypothalamus has a hard time recognizing the correct hormonal signals. Your hypothalamus is simply trying to regulate your body on a day to day basis because you’re in survival mode and it’s not worrying about correcting hormones because it thinks you’re in danger when you’re not. Why do you think that the people who recovered were the ones who went back to their day to day lives without worrying or stressing. That’s the reason why people like vitamin c, lowe2sucks and simeoni recovered is because they either came off testosterone which can be overstimulating and a nervous system stressor for some or they went back to their day to day lives and worked on their stressors. The other thing is when you deprive hormones for any amount of time the receptors up regulate and we all know that high estrogen is overstimulating so by crashing your estrogen and the subsequent upregulation of receptors just amplified the overstimulation issue to your nervous system. I’ve been dealing with these issues for 7 years now and this last year I’ve finally recovered and its only because I started working on all of my stressors whether it’s caffeine/nicotine addiction and social anxiety(external) or therapy(internal), getting my hormones in order, or even using medication if needed (lamotrigine in my case). The human body is incredibly resilient and I promise that y’all will recover if you just throw everything you can at this issue to reduce your stress, come off and let your body regulate itself and believe in yourself that you’ll get better.

How are you doing?

 

[E2sufferer]

How do you feel the first days on Estradiol? I kind of felt a crash after the second pill. Is that normal? Or do you immediately feel well when supplementing?

 

[Systemlord]

How do you feel the first days on Estradiol? I kind of felt a crash after the second pill. Is that normal? Or do you immediately feel well when supplementing?

I seriously doubt your estrogen levels will become elevated after a couple of doses.

 

[Mastodont]

How do you feel the first days on Estradiol? I kind of felt a crash after the second pill. Is that normal? Or do you immediately feel well when supplementing?

I felt good after the first 1mg valerate, then next day took another and got horrible anxiety.

 

[swolg8r]

I felt good after the first 1mg valerate, then next day took another and got horrible anxiety.

After trial and error, I don’t believe estradiol supplementation will fix our issues. Definitely a receptor signaling issue.