Blood Test Results - Pre TRT and 4 weeks in. Higher Cholesterol and Triglycerides?

[TransitPoloce]

Hi Guys,

My intro thread is here for some more background.

I'm 31 years old, 5'11, 175lbs, Fairly healthy lifestyle, Gym 3-4 times a week, I eat a Ketogenic diet (very low carb, moderate protein, high in fat), very rarely drink alcohol. Besides the gym I am fairly sedentary though.

Anyway - I've had my first set of blood results after 4 weeks on TRT - and am a bit baffled by my Cholesterol. It was already high but seems to have gotten worse. My Triglycerides have increased significantly too.

Dr's advice has been to eat more carbs and grains, vegetables and avoid meat and all saturated fat - which is very outdated advice in my opinion.

My current diet is basically good quality meat - Salmon / Steak / Sardines, some bacon, lots of healthy fats like avocado, coconut oil, coconut milk. I eat close to zero sugar unless it's from veggies and the occasional bit of milk in my coffee. I do eat cheese, butter and cream as part of a ketogenic diet.
I eat just below maintenance calories at ~2000/day.

I was taking 250mg Test E once every 2 weeks. Which has now been switched to 125mg/week. I can now self administer and will likely split this into twice weekly doses.

Labs were done exactly 4 weeks after first dose, before getting my 3rd injection.

One thing worth mentioning - I'm currently tapering off anti-anxiety meds - benzodiazepines that I've been dependent on for 3 years. Not sure how this effects everything, but I'm sure it doesn't help.

Pre TRT:
http://imgur.com/a/cTS4J

Post 4 week TRT:

http://imgur.com/a/MHfFV

If someone could post these in the thread I would be very grateful - I've spent 30 minutes trying to get them formatted correctly but they keep ending up sideways or upside down.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Jay]

I tried Keto as well and my cholesterol shot way up from 200 total to 312! Most people can handle the high fat/no carbs diet, but some of us not so much. I would say you are in my camp. My cholesterol went back down with lower fat/moderate carbs.

 

[johndoesmith]

Hi Guys,

My intro thread is here for some more background.

I'm 31 years old, 5'11, 175lbs, Fairly healthy lifestyle, Gym 3-4 times a week, I eat a Ketogenic diet (very low carb, moderate protein, high in fat), very rarely drink alcohol. Besides the gym I am fairly sedentary though.

Anyway - I've had my first set of blood results after 4 weeks on TRT - and am a bit baffled by my Cholesterol. It was already high but seems to have gotten worse. My Triglycerides have increased significantly too.

Dr's advice has been to eat more carbs and grains, vegetables and avoid meat and all saturated fat - which is very outdated advice in my opinion.

My current diet is basically good quality meat - Salmon / Steak / Sardines, some bacon, lots of healthy fats like avocado, coconut oil, coconut milk. I eat close to zero sugar unless it's from veggies and the occasional bit of milk in my coffee. I do eat cheese, butter and cream as part of a ketogenic diet.
I eat just below maintenance calories at ~2000/day.

I was taking 250mg Test E once every 2 weeks. Which has now been switched to 125mg/week. I can now self administer and will likely split this into twice weekly doses.

Labs were done exactly 4 weeks after first dose, before getting my 3rd injection.

One thing worth mentioning - I'm currently tapering off anti-anxiety meds - benzodiazepines that I've been dependent on for 3 years. Not sure how this effects everything, but I'm sure it doesn't help.

Pre TRT:
http://imgur.com/a/cTS4J

Post 4 week TRT:

http://imgur.com/a/MHfFV

If someone could post these in the thread I would be very grateful - I've spent 30 minutes trying to get them formatted correctly but they keep ending up sideways or upside down.

Thanks in advance.

So I'm a bit confused here, this is after 4 weeks of 250mg E14D measured at day of injection but before injection?

If so, that's a terrible terrible protocol, and it makes perfect sense why your levels are lower than when you started. I'd highly recommend E3.5D injections with your SHBG level.

 

[CoastWatcher]

You devoted a great deal of discussion to your lipid profile, and attending to that is certainly important. But I see no mention of how you feel in regard to your TRT protocol. Perhaps it's because your lab results are, to out it directly, unimpressive. That can't really surprise you, I'm sure, as you are following a protocol designed to fail. Two hundred and fifty milligrams of testosterone every two weeks is simply foolish - as you realize. Your labs paint a picture of a man suffering from hypogonadism - not a man emerging from it.

You have begun to turn that around by reordering your protocol. Why not consider injecting 60mg of testosterone every 3.5 days? As has been noted so often, frequent, smaller injections lead to TRT success.

 

[TransitPoloce]

So I'm a bit confused here, this is after 4 weeks of 250mg E14D measured at day of injection but before injection?

If so, that's a terrible terrible protocol, and it makes perfect sense why your levels are lower than when you started. I'd highly recommend E3.5D injections with your SHBG level.

Your confusion is warranted, yes this is after 4 weeks on a bad protocol the morning before injection, 14 days since last my dose of test. I felt it almost amusing that this caused lower levels of test if it wasn't so sad - this is an extremely standard starting trt protocol in a lot of countries outside of the USA. I've heard of much worse from other forums.

As mentioned I am switching to a twice weekly injection schedule and self administering going forward after educating myself here on what a proper protocol looks like.

Unfortunately there are no practicing TRT experts in this part of the world, most Drs I contacted suggested 250mg every 3-4 weeks as the standard starting dose. Or nebido every 12-14 weeks.

While all the medications required for trt are legal OTC here, I needed a Dr willing to work with me and monitor things at least at the beginning so I have a valid prescription and medical history of my treatment if I ever move to another country that isn't so liberal. My Dr asked I Follow her plan for a month then was open to make changes which I felt was entirely fair

 

[johndoesmith]

Your confusion is warranted, yes this is after 4 weeks on a bad protocol the morning before injection, 14 days since last my dose of test. I felt it almost amusing that this caused lower levels of test if it wasn't so sad - this is an extremely standard starting trt protocol in a lot of countries outside of the USA. I've heard of much worse from other forums.

As mentioned I am switching to a twice weekly injection schedule and self administering going forward after educating myself here on what a proper protocol looks like.

Unfortunately there are no practicing TRT experts in this part of the world, most Drs I contacted suggested 250mg every 3-4 weeks as the standard starting dose. Or nebido every 12-14 weeks.

While all the medications required for trt are legal OTC here, I needed a Dr willing to work with me and monitor things at least at the beginning so I have a valid prescription and medical history of my treatment if I ever move to another country that isn't so liberal. My Dr asked I Follow her plan for a month then was open to make changes which I felt was entirely fair

You can always do an information only consult with defy medical. Of course they can't prescribe you anything but since it's OTC there it may help.

I hate to see people on terrible protocols.

 

[TransitPoloce]

I tried Keto as well and my cholesterol shot way up from 200 total to 312! Most people can handle the high fat/no carbs diet, but some of us not so much. I would say you are in my camp. My cholesterol went back down with lower fat/moderate carbs.

Jay I really appreciate your reply - it's actually taken a lot of worry out of my head regarding the Lipids issue. I think it's very likely my diet. I had started eating strict Keto a month before I got the initial test showing bad cholesterol and was very surprised. I've always had a big interest in nutrition and had great cholesterol / triglyceride levels the times they had been tested. The fact that it was bad pre TRT and then got significantly worse in a month makes me think it must be the diet.

Odd - every story I read about ketogenic diets is the exact opposite - reversing diabetes and high cholesterol.

 

[Jay]

Believe me I know...I was very depressed to find I could not do Keto...it worked great for me when cutting up for a bodybuilding shows, but as I am older, and I don't do shows anymore so longevity is more important.

Mind you I don't do Bro dieting of super clean food either, but incorp more of a normal diet (moderate fat/protein/carbs) and choose carbs that are not processed/sugary will help a lot. For me all things in moderation seem to work and get my cholesterol back to normal.

One thing that has helped me stay very lean though is I do Intermediate Fasting...I use to do 16 hour fasts, but have increased it to 20 hour fasts and have been dropping the body fat quickly. I am sure having optimal Testosterone levels help as well, but it is not a magic bullet to fat lose.

 

[TransitPoloce]

You can always do an information only consult with defy medical. Of course they can't prescribe you anything but since it's OTC there it may help.

I hate to see people on terrible protocols.

@johndoesmith

Yep I've been considering that, or possibly Nelson's health coaching. It makes a bit more sense now that I have total control over my TRT schedule and can make the recommended changes.

Have you always used Defy?

 

[johndoesmith]

@johndoesmith

Yep I've been considering that, or possibly Nelson's health coaching. It makes a bit more sense now that I have total control over my TRT schedule and can make the recommended changes.

Have you always used Defy?

I've used a local urologist before and was prescribed gel. I had terrible results. Not to mention he told me injections are hepatotoxic and confused "iatrogenic" with "idiopathic". So I doubted his competence as did defy when I told them my experiences.

I highly recommend defy medical.

 

[TransitPoloce]

You devoted a great deal of discussion to your lipid profile, and attending to that is certainly important. But I see no mention of how you feel in regard to your TRT protocol. Perhaps it's because your lab results are, to out it directly, unimpressive. That can't really surprise you, I'm sure, as you are following a protocol designed to fail. Two hundred and fifty milligrams of testosterone every two weeks is simply foolish - as you realize. Your labs paint a picture of a man suffering from hypogonadism - not a man emerging from it.

You have begun to turn that around by reordering your protocol. Why not consider injecting 60mg of testosterone every 3.5 days? As has been noted so often, frequent, smaller injections lead to TRT success.

Hi CoastWatcher, appreciate your input as always.

I honestly had no idea what to expect from my labs, I knew my T levels were certainly dropped from the peak but didn't expect them to be lower than when I started within 2 weeks. I'm actually glad I got to experience first hand what a 2 week dosing schedule does to T levels - I thought perhaps people were being a bit dramatic about dosing frequency.

On the plus side it can only be improved from here, and I think I've come out of this a lot more knowledgable on what is required to make it work.

I will most likely be trying your suggestion of 60mg / 3.5 days