23mg EOD Results

[GreenMachineX]

As in the title, I'm only using 23mg EOD shallow IM and 5mg sublingual DHEA. My labs are as follows:

HGB 17.6 (13.6-17.1)
HCT 52.8 (38.5-50)

Total Testosterone 880 (250-1100)
Free Testosterone 210.4 H (35-155)

These results are pretty amazing to me. I can't believe this low of a dose would do that to my Free T. I'm going to drop my dose to 22.5mg (roughly) and see how that does. I'm scheduled to donate next Wednesday. My HCT isn't emergency, but need to get it done soon, correct?

 

[Willyt]

What is your SHBG? Also curious if the more frequent dosing drove down your E2

 

[Weasel]

Not really a low dose. That's still 80mg a week.

 

[Systemlord]

I'm going to drop my dose to 22.5mg (roughly) and see how that does.

Don't take this the wrong way, but you need a hobby.

 

[DS3]

Not really a low dose. That's still 80mg a week.

Lol what would you consider a low dose? It’s generally accepted that anything under 100 mg weekly is a low dose.

 

[DixieWrecked]

Dont take this the wrong way, but you need a hobby.

when we start adjusting dosages by half mgs you know we might be getting a little neurotic.

 

[Anonymon]

Depends on your point of reference I suppose. To me anything under 200 is a low dose, which is fine and great for most guys. That’s partly because 200 had been the standard for years. Depending on what I’m doing I’ll be at 140-196 a week injected daily. Exogenous T doesn’t behave in exactly the same way naturally produced T does or have all the same responses or metabolites at the same rates, so making comparisons only based on your TT and FT numbers on a blood test isn’t always the way to go, though if your TT is over 9k or something crazy you’re going to have problems. I’ve tried 86mg a week injected daily for long periods before and I felt worse than when my levels were about the same without TRT. Common experience.

 

[DS3]

Depends on your point of reference I suppose. To me anything under 200 is a low dose, which is fine and great for most guys. That’s partly because 200 had been the standard for years. Depending on what I’m doing I’ll be at 140-196 a week injected daily. Exogenous T doesn’t behave in exactly the same way naturally produced T does or have all the same responses or metabolites at the same rates, so making comparisons only based on your TT and FT numbers on a blood test isn’t always the way to go, though if your TT is over 9k or something crazy you’re going to have problems. I’ve tried 86mg a week injected daily for long periods before and I felt worse than when my levels were about the same without TRT. Common experience.

Very interesting. Thank you for sharing your experience. Do you take HCG and/or an AI?

 

[Anonymon]

Very interesting. Thank you for sharing your experience. Do you take HCG and/or an AI?

I take hCG. Used to do it daily at 100ius and got something out of it, but found it was better to breech the 350iu mark 3x a week based on Dr. Silva’s work found here on the forum. Right now on my current protocol for PFS I’m doing hCG 3x a week at 700-ish-iu’s.

I usually never use an AI, and my E2 was always fine, running between 50-55ish, and actually below the recommended 5% per 1000TT. Right now on my PFS protocol though I’ve been experimenting with AI’s to try and get my DHT up since DHT upregulates its own creation through increasing 5AR. Currently been doing .5mg Anastrozole 2x a week to that effect, this being my first week doing that.

HCG makes some guys feel like crap and some guys feel great. I’m in the latter camp and actually get more out of HCG than test, probably for PFS related reasons.

I don’t personally recommend an AI for most people. Having your E2 a little higher than normal is fine for most, and since your TT and FT are both higher, it’s actually one of the benefits of TRT.

 

[GreenMachineX]

What is your SHBG? Also curious if the more frequent dosing drove down your E2

13 last I checked. Actually, this protocol has kept my e2 at better levels than 50mg twice per week.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Don't take this the wrong way, but you need a hobby.

Clearly, I'm a hyperresponder based on my tiny dosage and the results above. I can't explain it, but there's something unique about my experience with TRT (look at my old post from a couple months ago). You'll see what I mean.

 

[GreenMachineX]

when we start adjusting dosages by half mgs you know we might be getting a little neurotic.

It would sound that way, but nothing about my TRT experience is normal.

 

[Cataceous]

Lol what would you consider a low dose? It’s generally accepted that anything under 100 mg weekly is a low dose.

You guys don't know what a low dose is. I'm taking 4.5 mg T propionate daily. That's equivalent to 38 mg of testosterone cypionate weekly. For better or worse, it seems like most guys on the forums are taking well above what's natural for their physiologies. Average testosterone production for young men is 6-7 mg per day, with few reaching 9 mg and over. This means average production is covered by 60-70 mg T cypionate per week, and the top producers would be covered by 90 mg.

It's no coincidence that the Xyosted T enanthate product comes only in doses of 50, 75 and 100 mg per week. These doses allow the vast majority of men to attain normal serum levels. The relatively long half-life of Xyosted means there's not the usual game playing in which trough testosterone is pushed to normal or above and the supraphysiological peaks are left out of sight and out of mind, at least until side effects interrupt the party.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I take hCG. Used to do it daily at 100ius and got something out of it, but found it was better to breech the 350iu mark 3x a week based on Dr. Silva’s work found here on the forum. Right now on my current protocol for PFS I’m doing hCG 3x a week at 700-ish-iu’s.

I usually never use an AI, and my E2 was always fine, running between 50-55ish, and actually below the recommended 5% per 1000TT. Right now on my PFS protocol though I’ve been experimenting with AI’s to try and get my DHT up since DHT upregulates its own creation through increasing 5AR. Currently been doing .5mg Anastrozole 2x a week to that effect, this being my first week doing that.

HCG makes some guys feel like crap and some guys feel great. I’m in the latter camp and actually get more out of HCG than test, probably for PFS related reasons.

I don’t personally recommend an AI for most people. Having your E2 a little higher than normal is fine for most, and since your TT and FT are both higher, it’s actually one of the benefits of TRT.

What is PFS?

 

[Gman86]

What is PFS?

Post finasteride syndrome I believe.

 

[Anonymon]

Post finasteride syndrome I believe.

Yes. My biggest regret in life is taking that poison. Plenty of guys claim to do fine on it. But when they don’t? Jesus. You’re on your own figuring it out too. According to physicians I’ve worked with around the world, it seems more common to happen to guys not on HRT or with no history of HRT when taking it, which was me.

I wasn’t even going bald.

 

[camygod]

You guys don't know what a low dose is. I'm taking 4.5 mg T propionate daily. That's equivalent to 38 mg of testosterone cypionate weekly. For better or worse, it seems like most guys on the forums are taking well above what's natural for their physiologies. Average testosterone production for young men is 6-7 mg per day, with few reaching 9 mg and over. This means average production is covered by 60-70 mg T cypionate per week, and the top producers would be covered by 90 mg.

It's no coincidence that the Xyosted T enanthate product comes only in doses of 50, 75 and 100 mg per week. These doses allow the vast majority of men to attain normal serum levels. The relatively long half-life of Xyosted means there's not the usual game playing in which trough testosterone is pushed to normal or above and the supraphysiological peaks are left out of sight and out of mind, at least until side effects interrupt the party.

have you stopped the test prop test e mix?

 

[Cataceous]

have you stopped the test prop test e mix?

Yes, as part of another test to see if the use of enclomiphene in this protocol can be reduced or eliminated. The tradeoff is in having non-physiological swings in serum testosterone, from ~700s to ~200s ng/dL. The hypothesis is that the low troughs lead to less HPTA suppression, allowing gonadorelin to continue stimulating gonadotropin production without enclomiphene. It's too early to report results, though I can say that so far these relatively low troughs are not leading to symptoms of hypogonadism.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Yes, as part of another test to see if the use of enclomiphene in this protocol can be reduced or eliminated. The tradeoff is in having non-physiological swings in serum testosterone, from ~700s to ~200s ng/dL. The hypothesis is that the low troughs lead to less HPTA suppression, allowing gonadorelin to continue stimulating gonadotropin production without enclomiphene. It's too early to report results, though I can say that so far these relatively low troughs are not leading to symptoms of hypogonadism.

Your using clomid with TRT?

 

[DS3]

Wow! Roger Bannister effect exemplified. That is low!