from needles to pills: the trt switch i didn’t expect to matter this much

[Phil Goodman]

I'm well aware, however my approach to lack of authenticity, whether human or machine (which, sadly, is becoming more common in both cases) is to respond with authenticity, which will hopefully encourage authentic responses from someone and benefit other readers. I'm actually kind of glad the topic came up since the unavailability and/or unnecessary bundling of Kyzatrex or anything else is not a trend we want to encourage IMO.

Agreed, and I think you made a lot of great points regarding oral T. We see a lot of claims being made that aren’t necessarily accurate, and that need to be considered by users. For example, we always hear that it imap to hematocrit less than other forms… but I’ve shared a study here which showed the average increase was actually a little higher for oral than for injectable. Yes, for most users the increase will be less, but percentage is elevated so much because of the (granted, smaller) number of people who see large increases. So imagine the guy who goes with oral because he hears it’s better on that front only to see his hematocrit increase 10+ points.


And you made a good point about the meal timing. Intermittent fasting isn’t a huge deal for me anymore, but technically for anyone on oral I’d imagine that the largest fasting window they could hit would be 12 hours, which may not work for a lot of people.

I’m also not 100% sold that it doesn’t fully prevent natural suppression over time. For example, if someone is on oral T for three years do they really still naturally produce testosterone? Again I might be wrong, but I’d say it’s quite possible that after years of use the person on oral T would also have zero natural production just like the guy on injections.

 

[JorgeF]

You are one of the most thoughtful and intelligent guys on this forum, my post was not directed at you in any way. There are a handful of us who post, but thousands that read this forum. That post was for the readers who may not understand the reference to AI.

I agree completely that both the human element and authenticity are being replaced by artificial drivel. I am committed to keeping it real.

I'm not a bot. I just do my homework before posting.

Agreed, and I think you made a lot of great points regarding oral T. We see a lot of claims being made that aren’t necessarily accurate, and that need to be considered by users. For example, we always hear that it imap to hematocrit less than other forms… but I’ve shared a study here which showed the average increase was actually a little higher for oral than for injectable. Yes, for most users the increase will be less, but percentage is elevated so much because of the (granted, smaller) number of people who see large increases. So imagine the guy who goes with oral because he hears it’s better on that front only to see his hematocrit increase 10+ points.


And you made a good point about the meal timing. Intermittent fasting isn’t a huge deal for me anymore, but technically for anyone on oral I’d imagine that the largest fasting window they could hit would be 12 hours, which may not work for a lot of people.

I’m also not 100% sold that it doesn’t fully prevent natural suppression over time. For example, if someone is on oral T for three years do they really still naturally produce testosterone? Again I might be wrong, but I’d say it’s quite possible that after years of use the person on oral T would also have zero natural production just like the guy on injections.

fair play on the authenticity piece man honestly the bundling thing drives me nuts too. hate when clinics lock specific meds behind those massive "concierge" fees just to boost margins.

solid points on the medical side too... especially the suppression. i think youre 100% right, if youre taking enough exogenous test to fix symptoms your body is gonna shut down the factory eventually regardless of delivery method. thinking you can run therapeutic doses for years and keep natural production is kinda wishful thinking unless maybe youre running hcg alongside it?

the fasting thing is a legit dealbreaker for some too. i just eat breakfast and dinner so the 12hr gap works but if youre strict intermittent fasting or omad its a nightmare logistics wise. on that hematocrit study though was it looking at the older methyltestosterone stuff or the newer lymphatic caps? cause usually avoiding the liver pass helps keep the spikes lower but yeah individual biology is always the wildcard.

are you seeing kyzatrex mostly locked behind expensive subscription models where you are or just hard to find in general?

 

[BadassBlues]

I assume like other medications that have gone the oral route, the driving force is having the option for those who have an aversion to injections. I suppose that is a good option to have, but I seriously question the efficacy of a pill versus an injectable.

I have been dialed in for so many years it's just part of my life at this point. Twice weekly injections are a far better option for me than taking an oral twice a day. But that is just me.

 

[JorgeF]

I assume like other medications that have gone the oral route, the driving force is having the option for those who have an aversion to injections. I suppose that is a good option to have, but I seriously question the efficacy of a pill versus an injectable.

I have been dialed in for so many years it's just part of my life at this point. Twice weekly injections are a far better option for me than taking an oral twice a day. But that is just me.

honestly man i totally respect that... if youve been dialed in for years and the needles dont bother you then there really isnt a huge reason to mess with a good thing. injections are definitely the old reliable for a reason.

the main reason guys like me look at the oral route is usually just needle fatigue or the travel aspect but the efficacy is actually pretty close now with the lymphatic stuff like kyzatrex. it basically mimics the natural daily rhythm instead of that big weekly spike and slow drop off. but yeah i get it... twice a day is definitely more to manage than just one or two pins a week.

on the hematocrit thing i actually had the opposite happen... mine was always creeping up on the shots but it stabilized once i switched. i think its just because i dont have those massive supraphysiological peaks anymore but like you said everyone is different and some guys respond weird to the pills too.

out of curiosity have you ever actually tried a different route or just been a needle guy from day one? i actually have a buddy who was in your shoes (years on the pin) but he had to switch cause of scar tissue issues. if you ever wanted to just chat with the specialist who helped him and me navigate that whole transition i can give u his info. he’s super chill and doesn't push anything... he just knows the data inside out.

want me to send u his contact just so you have it in your back pocket or you think you’re strictly team needle for life?? lol

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

are you seeing kyzatrex mostly locked behind expensive subscription models where you are or just hard to find in general?

yes.