For those who are struggling on TRT

[Systemlord]

The endocrine system is a fickle thing.

 

[Cataceous]

...
Anybody have an idea of why I'm higher on a lower dose?

Lab error or problem with the dosing. Are you injecting daily? We'd generally expect to see free testosterone be proportional to dose. Do you have earlier measurements that might reveal one of these two recent ones to be inconsistent?

 

[tareload]

The endocrine system is a fickle thing.

Sounds like an old William Holden movie.

 

[Misery]

Lab error or problem with the dosing. Are you injecting daily? We'd generally expect to see free testosterone be proportional to dose. Do you have earlier measurements that might reveal one of these two recent ones to be inconsistent?

Yes, I'm injecting daily. So there shouldn't be any lows or highs throughout the week

I don't have any labs before these two, but I'll have a new set of labs next week. I will be keeping everything as is until I get these results.

 

[GreenMachineX]

You are not alone. I have experimented with various daily doses of Enanthate and found that 8mg is most I can tolerate. I feel good during day on higher doses, but it destroys my sleep. Even at 8mg I sometimes had to intentionally skip a day to let things settle down.

I'm going back down to 4mg as 5mg and 6mg destroy my sleep, and I think give me reflux. So frustrating.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Wow not what I was expecting @ 84mg a week. Think I'm going to confirm these results with another test next week.

TESTOSTERONE, FREE (DIALYSIS) AND TOTAL (MS)
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL, MS 627 250-1100 ng/dL

TESTOSTERONE, FREE SLI
(DIALYSIS)
TESTOSTERONE, FREE 163.2 H 35.0-155.0 pg/mL

ESTRADIOL,ULTRASENSITIVE, LC/MS 43 H < OR = 29 pg/mL

This doesn't add up with my last labs @ 112mg a week. Which where,

TESTOSTERONE, FREE (DIALYSIS) AND TOTAL (MS)
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL, MS 479 250-1100 ng/dL

TESTOSTERONE, FREE SLI
(DIALYSIS)
TESTOSTERONE, FREE 123.0 35.0-155.0 pg/mL

Anybody have an idea of why I'm higher on a lower dose?

Both of those are daily injections? How do you feel?

 

[GreenMachineX]

What’s even more strange is each time I try to quit there would be a spot somewhere around 10 to 12 days I would feel fantastic each and every time. Looking back, this is most likely whenever I reached the level I needed to be at such as now. I don’t take anything else whatsoever other than just basic supplements such as multivitamins and fish oils that’s about it.

I've noticed this also when taking a break from TRT, but about day 3 to 5 is when I felt better.

 

[Misery]

Both of those are daily injections? How do you feel?

Yep, both.

I've felt better, anxiety, low mood, irritable, bloated. However far better than when I was doing doses of 120mg or better.

 

[Forty2]

You are not alone. I have experimented with various daily doses of Enanthate and found that 8mg is most I can tolerate. I feel good during day on higher doses, but it destroys my sleep. Even at 8mg I sometimes had to intentionally skip a day to let things settle down.

I wonder if you would feel better using a lower dose of TNE (testosterone no ester).
This may not interfere with your sleep if you inject once in the morning.

 

[Willyt]

I wonder if you would feel better using a lower dose of TNE (testosterone no ester).
This may not interfere with your sleep if you inject once in the morning.

There are a few interesting threads on TNE. It would be fun to try. I have injected straight propionate 2x per day (morning + afternoon) for couple of weeks as an experiment. Not bad. A bit smoother than usual daily Prop.

 

[eli]

Shaking my head....By now all of you should know this isn't a one size fit all, this may work for OP but doesn't mean it's going to work for you.

You need to experience different protocols and be patient, and suck it through the hell week and see if it works for you.

At doses below 75mg, my E2 gets too low, I get low E2 sides and I know what low e2 sides are... Don't chase someone else's Milligrams.
Chase how you feel and then bloodwork, never milligrams because everyone absorsb differently, one man's 50mgs is another man's 100 milligrams

I've tried it all, one thing that works for me is having another compound added to my TRT, low dose.

Now I'm experimenting 30mg of pharmacuital Primo, I did 60mgs E2 was low so halfed my dose to 30mg and going to wait 4-5 more weeks, been 3 already

 

[Hyrulewarrior1978]

Shaking my head....By now all of you should know this isn't a one size fit all, this may work for OP but doesn't mean it's going to work for you.

You need to experience different protocols and be patient, and suck it through the hell week and see if it works for you.

At doses below 75mg, my E2 gets too low, I get low E2 sides and I know what low e2 sides are... Don't chase someone else's Milligrams.
Chase how you feel and then bloodwork, never milligrams because everyone absorsb differently, one man's 50mgs is another man's 100 milligrams

I've tried it all, one thing that works for me is having another compound added to my TRT, low dose.

Now I'm experimenting 30mg of pharmacuital Primo, I did 60mgs E2 was low so halfed my dose to 30mg and going to wait 4-5 more weeks, been 3 already

Lol this is my favorite post by far that I’ve seen on this site

 

[Forty2]

There are a few interesting threads on TNE. It would be fun to try. I have injected straight propionate 2x per day (morning + afternoon) for couple of weeks as an experiment. Not bad. A bit smoother than usual daily Prop.

I had a look at some of those threads. The duration of action of TNE is contentious.
Some guys say they feel good with a single daily dose in the mornings, while others seem doubtful that testosterone levels stay elevated for long enough from a once daily morning dose.
I'd like to know why TNE in oil would be out of the system so much faster than a testosterone cream application?

 

[Willyt]

I had a look at some of those threads. The duration of action of TNE is contentious.
Some guys say they feel good with a single daily dose in the mornings, while others seem doubtful that testosterone levels stay elevated for long enough from a once daily morning dose.
I'd like to know why TNE in oil would be out of the system so much faster than a testosterone cream application?

I would definitely recommend trying Propionate daily as first option before you head down TNE route. You will feel the daily fluctuation (in fact maybe too much)

 

[Misery]

My latest labs, dont add up once again. The only thing I have learned from these labs is to not trust the lab that I am using. Not only do the TEST results not add up but two out of three times I didn't get a E2 result that I ordered.

$254.75 down the drain.

The quest lab that I am using isnt an actual Quest facility, they draw samples for Quest and send them to CA. There isnt another Quest in Yuma AZ. The nearest actual Quest lab is a hour and half drive.

Can someone recommend an online blood test service that uses Labcorp? If so, what tests are comparable to the Quest tests listed below.


I'm not knocking Discount this is not their fault.


This lab result I had to go back and give another sample because they made a mistake.
84mg a week daily. 09/15/2022
TESTOSTERONE, FREE (DIALYSIS) AND TOTAL (MS) FINAL
Total, 250-1100 491

TESTOSTERONE, FREE (DIALYSIS)
Free 35-155 130.7

84mg a week daily. 09/09/2022
TESTOSTERONE, FREE (DIALYSIS) AND TOTAL (MS)
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL, MS 627 250-1100 ng/dL

TESTOSTERONE, FREE SLI
(DIALYSIS)
TESTOSTERONE, FREE 163.2 H 35.0-155.0 pg/mL

ESTRADIOL,ULTRASENSITIVE, LC/MS 43 H < OR = 29 pg/mL

112mg a week daily. 05/14/2022
TESTOSTERONE, FREE (DIALYSIS) AND TOTAL (MS)
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL, MS 479 250-1100 ng/dL

TESTOSTERONE, FREE SLI
(DIALYSIS)
TESTOSTERONE, FREE 123.0 35.0-155.0 pg/mL

 

[Aragorn]

As many of you know, I have struggled over the years ever feeling well on TRT. I’ve had doses all the way from 200 mg per week down to 60 mg per week. I have now been on TRT 13 years and can honestly say I’ve pretty much tried it all. I have contemplated, and even attempted quitting a few times but felt too bad to follow through with it. For the first seven or eight years I thought having more testosterone was better and was told since I have high SHBG that I must use larger doses in order to feel well. As many of you know I dropped my weekly dose down to 60 mg per week 2 1/2 or three years ago I guess. At this point it was the best I felt ever being on TRT. Even with that my libido still wasn’t great but overall I felt fantastic. So nearly 7 weeks ago I dropped my dose down to 52 mg per week. I now feel completely normal in every single aspect including libido. I feel like I have wasted over 12 years listening to what I should do, instead of doing what’s right for me. I feel absolutely normal now and I feel exactly the way I did before ever needing TRT. I haven’t done labs yet and will most likely do so in another couple weeks. I would imagine just judging by my levels on 60 mg per week that my seven day trough level is going to be around 550–575 ng. The moral of the story is, I think a lot of men would be better served by substantially lowering their dose. I would not put this post on here if I if I didn’t feel passionate about it and thought it was a fleeting moment. Again I can tell you for absolute certain, that I feel fantastic finally, in every single aspect.

How long ot took to feel good after dropping to 60mg? How long after dropping to 52mg ?

I'm also greatly struggling to even feel ok on TRT....

 

[sh1973]

How long ot took to feel good after dropping to 60mg? How long after dropping to 52mg ?

I'm also greatly struggling to even feel ok on TRT....

Probably 4-5 weeks with both

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Probably 4-5 weeks with both

You're describing me. 13 years on TRT, various doses & injection frequencies. IM, subq, pellets, compounded cream and never achieved what so many other men were reporting regarding libido/erectile function, weight loss, stamina, improved sleep. High dose, 100 mg IM, 2X weekly, did substantially reduce depression, anhedonia, anxiety and improved stress handling ability at the cost of worse sleep, even with medication, elevated blood pressure and skewed lipid profile, which all might have been from an E2 of 98 pg, ultrasensitive test. I didn't want to use an ai because of what I'd read of never managing E2.

I admit I'm confused and conflicted. I've read of men taking a high dose and using an ai and feeling & functioning great. Best they've ever felt. High dose T was the ONLY medication that ever alleviated my psychiatric symptoms and I've tried 40 different psych meds over 20 years for treatment resistant bipolar. High dose made me feel like my old self of 40 years ago(I'm 75). So, I'm left, again, at the crossroads. But perhaps low dose, 60 mg, weekly, might restore more mood stability and sexual function. Worth a trial.

 

[Willyt]

You're describing me. 13 years on TRT, various doses & injection frequencies. IM, subq, pellets, compounded cream and never achieved what so many other men were reporting regarding libido/erectile function, weight loss, stamina, improved sleep. High dose, 100 mg IM, 2X weekly, did substantially reduce depression, anhedonia, anxiety and improved stress handling ability at the cost of worse sleep, even with medication, elevated blood pressure and skewed lipid profile, which all might have been from an E2 of 98 pg, ultrasensitive test. I didn't want to use an ai because of what I'd read of never managing E2.

I admit I'm confused and conflicted. I've read of men taking a high dose and using an ai and feeling & functioning great. Best they've ever felt. High dose T was the ONLY medication that ever alleviated my psychiatric symptoms and I've tried 40 different psych meds over 20 years for treatment resistant bipolar. High dose made me feel like my old self of 40 years ago(I'm 75). So, I'm left, again, at the crossroads. But perhaps low dose, 60 mg, weekly, might restore more mood stability and sexual function. Worth a trial.

With your experience, you probably already know that you will feel shitty for awhile reducing from 100mg to 60mg weekly even with improved sleep

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

With your experience, you probably already know that you will feel shitty for awhile reducing from 100mg to 60mg weekly even with improved sleep

Took 100 mg Sunday night. Yesterday at 1 p.m.(Tuesday), mood and energy suddenly improved. Though I need medication to sleep(eszopiclone) woke up feeling good. Did 100 pushups, 15 deep knee bends, 1 minute of wind sprints back and forth in the living room. At a minimum, I feel better with 100 mg. When I was taking 100 mg 2X weekly, felt what I remember as 'normal' insofar as mood and energy.

I could try 100 mg E5D as a compromise. For me, in moderate to high dosage, testosterone is more effective in alleviating depression, anhedonia, anxiety and improving my ability to handle stress, than any of the 40 psych medicines that have been tried over the past 20 years, as well as the many supplements I've taken. Probably have to take an ai. That's fine. Might have to take a diuretic. That's fine. Also taking daily sildenafil, 100 mg. Finally experiencing solid spontaneous erections. You all know I'm caring for my wife and sex was long gone before Alzheimer's.

Like the 91 year old gentleman who posts now and then, I want to live my best life, when my life returns, but I also want to get through my current days not depressed or low on energy. I totally accept what is happening to my wife and I'm in the process of finding a care community for her. No amount of testosterone will alleviate my sadness and despair nor would I want that. I don't want to numb my feelings. I do want to improve my mental and physical health to keep me functional, and keep me in the game for many more years. Yesterday, the nursing director, maybe in her early 40s,and social worker, in her late 50s, were surprised when I told them I was 75. Sweet, lol! I currently see a tired old man when I look in the mirror. Even my wife tells me how handsome I am. I'm a poor judge of how I look to women.