Ipamorelin Dosage Discussion

[Cataceous]

... my bloods just came back with an IGF-I that was lower than my baseline level by a few points. ... Is this normal due to the short half life of Ipamorelin? ...

It's close to my experience, but for me lack of IGF-1 elevation is perhaps desirable. I tried 12.5 mg ibutamoren (MK-677) qd and liked the results: better sleep, hydration and athletic performance. IGF-1 was 20% higher than baseline. But I read some things that made me nervous about this drug, beyond even the possibility that higher IGF-1 is problematic for longevity. In any case, I switched to ipamorelin, about 275 mcg qd. I still get the better sleep, but athleticism and hydration aren't quite as good. Notably, my IGF-1 is back to my baseline, and I'm comfortable with that.

 

[madhacker]

I’ve been on Ipam at 300 mcgs/day for about 2 months. I have seen some subjective benefits – in terms of some fat loss and muscle gain – better skin – but my bloods just came back with an IGF-I that was lower than my baseline level by a few points. I dosed about four hours prior to the test. Got all the gear from a legit pharma through a Rx . Is this normal due to the short half life of Ipamorelin? Doc suggested I increase my dose to 400 mcgs or switch to an Ipamorelin / ghrp2 combo. Any thoughts?

Firstly, what are your stats? I’m assuming you’re over the age of 40?
According to prominent Dr. Hertoghe everyone over the age of 35 needs to be on a growth hormone treatment to be optimal. In his experience with thousands of patients, secretagogues work in patients that do not need growth hormone treatment. If they do work, they work for a short period of time.
Treatment of a combination of growth hormone and IGF 1 is optimal. I’ve been on this treatment for 9 months and the results are nothing short of amazing. Cognitive function, mood enhancement, physical abilities have all greatly improved.
I had Lyme Disease and only recovered brain function with the combination HGH and IGF. I had tried secretagogues for about a year and I found them a waste of time, they’re not even comparable in results.

 

[JimGainz]

Firstly, what are your stats? I’m assuming you’re over the age of 40?
According to prominent Dr. Hertoghe everyone over the age of 35 needs to be on a growth hormone treatment to be optimal. In his experience with thousands of patients, secretagogues work in patients that do not need growth hormone treatment. If they do work, they work for a short period of time.
Treatment of a combination of growth hormone and IGF 1 is optimal. I’ve been on this treatment for 9 months and the results are nothing short of amazing. Cognitive function, mood enhancement, physical abilities have all greatly improved.
I had Lyme Disease and only recovered brain function with the combination HGH and IGF. I had tried secretagogues for about a year and I found them a waste of time, they’re not even comparable in results.

I’m 52 and on TRT with most hormones dialed in. This was the last step. My normal IGF-1 was around 140. Two months on IPam and it came in at 130. I will say that I have noticed some subjective benefits as you did - better mood, more athletic, fat loss with no dieting (although I did increase workout intensity), etc. I was looking for clinical validation (a higher IGF-1). Could it be that this has such a short half life it would not register 4 hours after the injection? If that was the case, how would we explain the benefits if IGF-1 doesn’t stay elevated?

 

[JimGainz]

I may have answered my question - I found some studies which showed that Ipam spikes IGF-1 about 1/2 hour after injection and then returned to baseline 2 hours later

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Those interested in this should track the various podcasts with Dr. William Seeds talking about growth hormone secretion. In a nutshell, he thinks there are numerous benefits to secretagogues other than raising IGF-1, and in fact tries to avoid doing so in many patients. He s also not a fan of non-pulsed secretion such as created by MK 677 and CJC-1295.

One of them is here SHR # 2011 :: Advanced Peptide Applications :: and I think there are others but the search function is slow right now.

 

[madhacker]

I’m 52 and on TRT with most hormones dialed in. This was the last step. My normal IGF-1 was around 140. Two months on IPam and it came in at 130. I will say that I have noticed some subjective benefits as you did - better mood, more athletic, fat loss with no dieting (although I did increase workout intensity), etc. I was looking for clinical validation (a higher IGF-1). Could it be that this has such a short half life it would not register 4 hours after the injection? If that was the case, how would we explain the benefits if IGF-1 doesn’t stay elevated?

If Ipamorelin was making a difference you would see it in your lab work. After the age of 50 years of age your enzyme system has aged and your liver is unable to use GH (or secretagogue) to make IGF 1 in the liver. It’s advised for men to have a optimal IGF range of 300-350. When you use GH and IGF 1 in equal amounts, your fine lines, wrinkles and aging will reverse. Just try it and you’ll understand what I mean. Secretagogues don’t come close to the benefits of GH and IGF, that studies make this very clear.
Please read on Dr. Hertoghe and watch his videos on YouTube.

 

[Cataceous]

... It’s advised for men to have a optimal IGF range of 300-350. ...

However, for older individuals, mortality statistics at these levels are worrisome, to say the least.

 

[madhacker]

However, for older individuals, mortality statistics at these levels are worrisome, to say the least.

I’ve only seen decreased mortality rates at those levels and a decrease in cancer as long as IGFBP’s are in optimal ranges? Please share your research.

“The risk of cancer is higher among people with elevated concentrations of IGF-1, and is lower among those with high concentrations of IGFBP-3 (the main binding protein)”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3412533/

 

[Cataceous]

I’ve only seen decreased mortality rates at those levels and a decrease in cancer as long as IGFBP’s are in optimal ranges? Please share your research.
...

Many studies cited in this article.

A meta-analysis analyzed ten studies on IGF-1 levels and all-cause mortality. The authors found a “U-shaped” association, meaning that IGF-1 levels on the low end and the high end of the spectrum were associated with increased risk of premature death.

The lowest risk was at the 55th percentile of serum IGF-1, and increased in both directions for all-cause, cancer, and cardiovascular mortality. This data suggests that we should aim for an IGF-1 level near the lower to middle for healthy people in our age range. ...

A similar discussion here.

An interesting mention of Laron Syndrome here.

People with Laron Syndrome have a genetic abnormality where they are insensitive to HGH.(human growth hormone). This dramatically lowers their IGF-1 levels and so they all die a painful and early death, right? Wrong! They actually become completely impervious to cancer and diabetes. [1] Yes, these people are superhuman, because it turns out that losing most of your IGF-1 is a fantasy. Of course, it is probably better if it occurs post-puberty, because those with Laron Syndrome are very short. But imagine living in a world where you do not have to worry about dying a gruesome death from cancer. Such is the world of Laron Syndrome individuals and there have many more health advantages as well: it also looks like lowering IGF-1 is stacking up to be one of the Holy Grails of anti-aging for example.

 

[madhacker]

Many studies cited in this article.

A similar discussion here.

An interesting mention of Laron Syndrome here.

Those articles didn’t even touch on IGFBP3 and other binding proteins. Some people have low levels of these binding proteins which increases their risk of cancer but healthy levels of binding protein BP3 which should be 10x that of IGF. Optimal binding protein actually protects against cancer.

I agree, the research shows that the failing immune system in the case of aging coupled with high IGF and low binding proteins is a bad combination for cancer development.
On the contrary, IGF 1 is required for proliferation of immune cells and GH resurrects the thymus gland (the mother board of the immune system.) Research shows IGF 1 levels below 250 increases the risk of mortality.

Growth Hormone and IGF 1 hormones are important hormones for optimal health and they certainly weren’t made by the body to cause cancer.

 

[Cataceous]

Bioavailability of IGF-1 may indeed be important, as in the quote below. But if you artificially inflate your IGF-1 from a normal average of say 150 ng/mL up to 300 then I'd say you're guaranteed to increase bioavailability and risk.

Serum concentrations of insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-1)9 and IGF binding protein-3 (IGFBP-3) are commonly used to assess the growth hormone (GH)-IGF-1 axis in patients with growth disorders 1. It has been suggested that the molar ratio of IGF-1 to IGFBP-3 could be used as a crude indicator of IGF-1 bioavailability 2, and several recent epidemiological studies in adults have shown an association between highly bioavailable IGF-1 concentrations and cancer risk, raising concerns about the long-term safety of high-dose GH treatment 3. The IGF-1/IGFBP-3 ratio is also associated with metabolic syndrome 4. These biological parameters have become essential tools for monitoring GH replacement therapy in various conditions

Serum Concentrations of Insulin-like Growth Factor (IGF)-1 and IGF Binding Protein-3 (IGFBP-3), IGF-1/IGFBP-3 Ratio, and Markers of Bone Turnover: Reference Values for French Children and Adolescents and z-Score Comparability with Other References

 

[Nelson Vergel]

wrong forum. I moved this thread where it should be. Guys, please help us keep ExcelMale organized. Besides, your post will not get as many replies as it should if you place it in the wrong section.

 

[JimGainz]

Firstly, what are your stats? I’m assuming you’re over the age of 40?
According to prominent Dr. Hertoghe everyone over the age of 35 needs to be on a growth hormone treatment to be optimal. In his experience with thousands of patients, secretagogues work in patients that do not need growth hormone treatment. If they do work, they work for a short period of time.
Treatment of a combination of growth hormone and IGF 1 is optimal. I’ve been on this treatment for 9 months and the results are nothing short of amazing. Cognitive function, mood enhancement, physical abilities have all greatly improved.
I had Lyme Disease and only recovered brain function with the combination HGH and IGF. I had tried secretagogues for about a year and I found them a waste of time, they’re not even comparable in results.

Just curious. Are you on for life or plan on coming off? If coming off, now will you kick start your own endogenous GH production?

 

[madhacker]

wrong forum. I moved this thread where it should be. Guys, please help us keep ExcelMale organized. Besides, your post will not get as many replies as it should if you place it in the wrong section.

Sorry Nelson,

I'm not well versed on the website. Where is the thread posted?

Thank you!

 

[madhacker]

Just curious. Are you on for life or plan on coming off? If coming off, now will you kick start your own endogenous GH production?

Life long. Low dosage of 1.1 iu split into two doses, upon rising and before bed. If I was to come off I would restart with Ipamorelin and a low dose of MOD GRF (CJC).

 

[JimGainz]

Ok - so I’ve been continuing the regiment -
but switched to a night time dose. I dialed back my carbs a bit and within the last 2.5 weeks I shed an additional inch off my waist. Overall I’m down almost 8 lbs and 2 inches total and looking better than I have in 25 years - ripped and muscular at 52. It must be the Ipam because that is the only real major change in protocol. Gonna run for another two months.

 

[Gman86]

Ok - so I’ve been continuing the regiment -
but switched to a night time dose. I dialed back my carbs a bit and within the last 2.5 weeks I shed an additional inch off my waist. Overall I’m down almost 8 lbs and 2 inches total and looking better than I have in 25 years - ripped and muscular at 52. It must be the Ipam because that is the only real major change in protocol. Gonna run for another two months.

Any updates?

 

[JimGainz]

Any updates?

Still running it. I did not get any additional fat loss after that initial period. I also added a low dose of nandrolone from my doctor. The combination of the two accelerated healing, even cartilage damage.

 

[madhacker]

Lack of access and using GH will shut down your GH axis when you stop. Ipamorelin will not.[/QU

That's a valid concerns but in terms of what's most effective, do you think that Ipamorelin has the same benefits as GH?

 

[JimGainz]

GH will always be more effective - the same way exogenous testosterone typically raises Test levels more than HCG. But.... Ipam is way cheaper and does not cause any desensitization or shutting down your own production. And it works very well.