T Propionate protocol

[bixt]

For the guys having sleep issues, why are u focusing so much on how ur protocol effects ur sleep? No disrespect or anything. Obv our protocols can effect our sleep, but why are u guys focusing on how ur protocol effects ur sleep, and not the things that have a much greater impact on whether u sleep well or not?

I just don’t get why u guys aren’t willing to do what u need to do in order to sleep well, but then will complain that ur sleep sucks. If u guys are already doing what u need to be doing in order to optimize sleep, and then want to complain that ur sleep sucks, and focus entirely on adjusting ur protocol to improve sleep, I get that. Here’s some of the things that are absolute game changers when it comes to sleeping well, and if ur not implementing them all, ur doing urself a disservice as far as sleep goes. Wearing quality blue blocking glasses 3-4 hours prior to bed, using a fairly high dose of quality magnesium everyday, getting sunlight in ur eyes upon waking, or soon after, not eating anything at least 3-4 hours prior to bed, and hands down the most important, eating a diet full of healthy nutrient dense foods, while avoiding all, or most foods that are going to impact ur health in a negative way. Nothing will impact ur sleep more than ur diet. And obviously exercise and lowering overall stress will improve sleep.

Sleep is, and always will be the single most important thing when it comes to our overall health and well being. So I really do wish everybody with sleep issues all the best. I feel for u guys

I appreciate your taking the time to write a lengthy post full of advice, but you sure have not followed the entire story and so have entirely missed the boat. Let me summarise:


10mg Cypionate daily - good sleep, normal boners
10mg prop daily - rock diamond hard titanium boners. But crap sleep.
> 20mg prop daily, as above but with added drive, motivation, gym (optimised)


Time and again, this was repeated.

”Blue lights, magnesium, diet, stress lmao etc etc” don’t stand a chance. You think these were not the first things I tried?

It takes just a tiny bit of analytical deductive reasoning to conclude as to exactly the issue is with the prop (In my case). It’s not even the ”protocol” as you state but specifically the compound in my case.

Another example, Trenbolone causes trensomnia. It’s a known 100% fact. I have used it. It’s like prop on steroids (haha). So are you now gonna go join all the BB forums and tell them to use blue lights and eat better?

I know you mean well, and kudus to you for successfully implementing Prof Hubermans advice. I am really happy that’s it’s working for you. It has worked for me too - just not with this compound. So these kind of lifestyle interventions you list are really not relevant here - due to the nature of the cause.

 

[Gman86]

So ya the sleep issues u guys are experiencing clearly have a lot more to do with ur protocols, and specific compounds in some cases, than I realized. But it’s still important to take into consideration the fact that compounds and specific protocols can have vastly different reactions in someone, depending on how their body is functioning overall. The same person can react extremely differently to the same protocol, depending on the state that their body is in, and how it’s functioning at the time. I’ve been a health freak my whole life. And I’ve tried every protocol under the sun, and at every dosage that u can think of, and never once has my sleep been effected. I ran prop for a good amount of time a few years ago. Overall I tend to do well no matter what protocol or dosage scheme I use, or what compounds I’m implementing at the time. And I don’t think it’s a coincidence. I think me keeping my body in a healthy state has a lot to do with it.

But as far as ur issues go with getting all the positives that ur looking for, without any negatives to go along with it, and trying to find a protocol that’s a good balance of all the things ur looking for, have u tried using enanthate? I know the half life is very close to cypionate, but some people do still react to it differently. Also, do u think the sleep issues on prop might have anything to do with rapidly spiking DHT levels? If so, have u considered using maybe a combo of test prop and nandrolone? Maybe slightly lower ur prop dose down to 50mg/ week, and add in 50mg of nandrolone per week. Lowering ur prop dose would decrease DHT spikes, and the DHN from nandrolone will also compete with the DHT u have in ur system to a degree, but the 50mg of nandrolone will give u the androgens that ur looking for to get the benefits u were getting from the 20mg of prop daily. Like the extra motivation, drive and gym benefits. U can also just keep ur prop dose the same at 70mg/ week, and add in say 50mg/ week of nandrolone. 120mg of total androgens per week would still be less than the total amount of androgens u were using when u were on 20mg/ day of prop. U could also try a nandrolone based protocol. I’ve never had better erections than when I was using a nandrolone based protocol with low dose test. Literal diamonds, and on demand whenever I wanted them. If there’s over stimulation going on with the prop that’s causing ur sleep issues, a nandrolone base might be perfect for u. Most people on it feel calm, cool and collected, like all of us want to feel on hrt. And like I said, erections were a 12/10 for me the whole time on a nandrolone base. So it might give u the best of both worlds, in regards to what ur looking for. Plus nandrolone is more anabolic than test, so u would probably see improvements in the gym compared to a test based protocol

 

[bixt]

But as far as ur issues go with getting all the positives that ur looking for, without any negatives to go along with it, and trying to find a protocol that’s a good balance of all the things ur looking for,

We are all certainly trying to have our cake and eat it too, as the saying goes.

So far everything’s been a trade off. Win some big gains, lose some others. And I have not even delved into potential health issues that could arise from the wacky protocols I try out.

have u tried using enanthate? I know the half life is very close to cypionate, but some people do still react to it differently.

I have followed some posts here and elsewhere where enanthate appears to behave very differently to cyp. Subjectively and in terms of things like double the cortisol on enanthate (which could be good or bad) and also high inflamation markers with enanthate, both compounded and UGL. At the same time, there are currently lots of issues with UGL enanthate raws causing PIP which wasn’t present with the same brewing methods previously. So something is up with enanthate at the moment. I can only get my hands on pharma cypionate and nebido in my country. With the current state of enanthate I would not consider UGL enanthate.

But one day you can bet I will try it when I can obtain some legitimate enanthate.

Also, do u think the sleep issues on prop might have anything to do with rapidly spiking DHT levels?

Now you are talking. This could well be so, elevated DHT even though prop T levels have fallen at night.

If so, have u considered using maybe a combo of test prop and nandrolone?

I am very very very weary of nandrolone after everything I have read especially relating to mental health, dopamine, etc.

Lowering ur prop dose would decrease DHT spikes, and the DHN from nandrolone will also compete with the DHT u have in ur system to a degree, but the 50mg of nandrolone will give u the androgens that ur looking for to get the benefits u were getting from the 20mg of prop daily. Like the extra motivation, drive and gym benefits

It is possible that this will work, and I have given it weeks of thought. You have read my mind for sure. This will be an absolute last resort though, one day, not anytime soon, and will be NPP and not the long ester (so I can bail fast). Will have tons of stanozolol and masteron and proviron and caber on hand if I try this, just in case. Bodybuilders always get immediate relief from deca dick if you blast high doses of one or more of these compounds at the first sign of a limp noodle.

If there’s over stimulation going on with the prop that’s causing ur sleep issues, a nandrolone base might be perfect for u. Most people on it feel calm, cool and collected, like all of us want to feel on hrt. And like I said, erections were a 12/10 for me the whole time on a nandrolone base. So it might give u the best of both worlds, in regards to what ur looking for. Plus nandrolone is more anabolic than test, so u would probably see improvements in the gym compared to a test based protocol

While I do believe and have seen some such anecdotes, I have seen a lot more where guys were neutral brain wise (just joint relief) or had limp noodle. Very very afraid. Also, there’s the blood vessel damage issue. There’s too many unknowns at this stage and I have zero joint issues as well.

 

[BillyJ03z]

We are all certainly trying to have our cake and eat it too, as the saying goes.

So far everything’s been a trade off. Win some big gains, lose some others.

You hit the nail on the head.... the Trade offs with trying to improve one thing and then causing problems for others.

For me, I have been on straight Cyp for about 85% of the time I have been on TRT (2xWK, E3D, EOD, ED injects w/ IM and SQ @ 8mg, 10mg, 12mg, 15mg, 20mg, 25mg doses.... still shitty sleep, varying levels of moderate to high E2 and DHT, etc... and I'm low SHBG. The other 15% of the time I have tried straight Prop and Prop/Cyp combos all at the previously mentioned dosages with ED schedule... still shitty sleep, varying levels of moderate to high E2 and DHT, etc..... again I'm low SHBG....

Like @bixt previously stated, the trade offs man.... When I'm on low dose Test, I don't enjoy the huge muscle building benefits/energy one would expect in the gym being on TRT (should be slightly over baseline from Natty, but don't feel I am) and it's not improving my sleep being on low dose... Then if I go higher with the Test Dose to get more benefits in the gym then I throw all my hormones out of whack even worse than i do with low dose (higher DHT, Higher E2, pummel my SHBG to single digit levels, etc....) and my sleep still sucks...

One big thing I noticed since starting TRT also, is that I have no sensitivity to any CNS stimulants anymore and I've never abused nor relied on stimulants in the past, as I only used stims as a pick-me up when feeling sluggish on certain gym days... In the past before starting TRT, a strong cup of black coffee would get me motivated and give me energy, but nothing now. Also, I tried the holy grail of stims "Ritalin and Adderall" and it did absolutely nothing for me. I know my CNS is depleted. So TRT did cause a whole cascade of issues for me. I have read that Pregnenolone helps with CNS repair/maintenance so I may go back and try some moderate to high doses and see what happens. Only problem is that anytime I tried 12.5 - 25mg of Preg it immediately bloated the hell out of me. I'm talking my stomach looked like a puffer fish.. smdh

 

[Gus80]

You hit the nail on the head.... the Trade offs with trying to improve one thing and then causing problems for others.

For me, I have been on straight Cyp for about 85% of the time I have been on TRT (2xWK, E3D, EOD, ED injects w/ IM and SQ @ 8mg, 10mg, 12mg, 15mg, 20mg, 25mg doses.... still shitty sleep, varying levels of moderate to high E2 and DHT, etc... and I'm low SHBG. The other 15% of the time I have tried straight Prop and Prop/Cyp combos all at the previously mentioned dosages with ED schedule... still shitty sleep, varying levels of moderate to high E2 and DHT, etc..... again I'm low SHBG....

Like @bixt previously stated, the trade offs man.... When I'm on low dose Test, I don't enjoy the huge muscle building benefits/energy one would expect in the gym being on TRT (should be slightly over baseline from Natty, but don't feel I am) and it's not improving my sleep being on low dose... Then if I go higher with the Test Dose to get more benefits in the gym then I throw all my hormones out of whack even worse than i do with low dose (higher DHT, Higher E2, pummel my SHBG to single digit levels, etc....) and my sleep still sucks...

One big thing I noticed since starting TRT also, is that I have no sensitivity to any CNS stimulants anymore and I've never abused nor relied on stimulants in the past, as I only used stims as a pick-me up when feeling sluggish on certain gym days... In the past before starting TRT, a strong cup of black coffee would get me motivated and give me energy, but nothing now. Also, I tried the holy grail of stims "Ritalin and Adderall" and it did absolutely nothing for me. I know my CNS is depleted. So TRT did cause a whole cascade of issues for me. I have read that Pregnenolone helps with CNS repair/maintenance so I may go back and try some moderate to high doses and see what happens. Only problem is that anytime I tried 12.5 - 25mg of Preg it immediately bloated the hell out of me. I'm talking my stomach looked like a puffer fish.. smdh

I am 42 years old and have 25 years of chronic insomnia. 7 years of trt made sleep much worse. According to Dr Rand Mcclain, the main culprit is the altered cortisol after trt.
Lately I gave up sleeping naturally and started to alternate between alprazolam and antihistamines. I notice that this helps a lot with testosterone dose tolerance.
Dr Randb recommends high doses of phosphatidylserine, 800mg, and it helps a lot later in the day.
About sleep restriction, science knows well that it is a cause of a sudden increase in serotonin, used successfully in cases of chronic depression.

Sleep Deprivation Increases Serotonin 2a Receptor Response in Brain - Neuroscience News

Sleep deprivation increases the levels of serotonin 2A neurotransmitter receptors within 6 - 8 hours. Abnormal serotonin 2A receptor function is associated with hallucinations, cognitive impairment, and is linked to psychiatric disorders such as schizophrenia.

neurosciencenews.com

At the same time, it is also scientific knowledge that estrogen acts as a monoamine oxidase inhibitor, that is, as an anti-depressant, also increasing serotonin.
The best articles on the harmful effects of high serotonin that I've read are by Dr Ray Peat (who in my opinion makes a lot of mistakes in his dietary hypotheses). It clearly shows that serotonin increases aggression and sympathetic tone, contrary to common sense.
Nandrolone goes the opposite way, which is perhaps why we see so many good reports of poor traditional trt responders.

High-dose testosterone treatment reduces monoamine oxidase A levels in the human brain: A preliminary report

The sex hormones testosterone and estradiol influence brain structure and function and are implicated in the pathogenesis, prevalence and disease cour…

www.sciencedirect.com

Serotonin, depression, and aggression - The problem of brain energy.

Serotonin research is relatively new, but it rivals estrogen research for the level of incompetence and apparent fraudulent intent that can be found in professional publications. This is partly because of the involvement of the drug industry, but the U.S. government also played a role in setting...

raypeat.com

Estrogen and brain aging in men and women: Depression, energy, stress

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Dr Ray Peat's failure is to believe that we are all the same and that genetics have no influence. We clearly see in any forum about hormones that there are completely different reactions to esters, frequency of application and quantity.

So it is quite obvious that for some the large increase in estrogen from one high-dose application per week will be beneficial and for others tragic.

I still don't have access to Jatenzo in Brazil, but I believe that due to the very short half-life, it can help those with sleep problems on TRT.

 

[SSHSSA74]

So ya the sleep issues u guys are experiencing clearly have a lot more to do with ur protocols, and specific compounds in some cases, than I realized. But it’s still important to take into consideration the fact that compounds and specific protocols can have vastly different reactions in someone, depending on how their body is functioning overall. The same person can react extremely differently to the same protocol, depending on the state that their body is in, and how it’s functioning at the time. I’ve been a health freak my whole life. And I’ve tried every protocol under the sun, and at every dosage that u can think of, and never once has my sleep been effected. I ran prop for a good amount of time a few years ago. Overall I tend to do well no matter what protocol or dosage scheme I use, or what compounds I’m implementing at the time. And I don’t think it’s a coincidence. I think me keeping my body in a healthy state has a lot to do with it.

But as far as ur issues go with getting all the positives that ur looking for, without any negatives to go along with it, and trying to find a protocol that’s a good balance of all the things ur looking for, have u tried using enanthate? I know the half life is very close to cypionate, but some people do still react to it differently. Also, do u think the sleep issues on prop might have anything to do with rapidly spiking DHT levels? If so, have u considered using maybe a combo of test prop and nandrolone? Maybe slightly lower ur prop dose down to 50mg/ week, and add in 50mg of nandrolone per week. Lowering ur prop dose would decrease DHT spikes, and the DHN from nandrolone will also compete with the DHT u have in ur system to a degree, but the 50mg of nandrolone will give u the androgens that ur looking for to get the benefits u were getting from the 20mg of prop daily. Like the extra motivation, drive and gym benefits. U can also just keep ur prop dose the same at 70mg/ week, and add in say 50mg/ week of nandrolone. 120mg of total androgens per week would still be less than the total amount of androgens u were using when u were on 20mg/ day of prop. U could also try a nandrolone based protocol. I’ve never had better erections than when I was using a nandrolone based protocol with low dose test. Literal diamonds, and on demand whenever I wanted them. If there’s over stimulation going on with the prop that’s causing ur sleep issues, a nandrolone base might be perfect for u. Most people on it feel calm, cool and collected, like all of us want to feel on hrt. And like I said, erections were a 12/10 for me the whole time on a nandrolone base. So it might give u the best of both worlds, in regards to what ur looking for. Plus nandrolone is more anabolic than test, so u would probably see improvements in the gym compared to a test based protocol

why did you stop the NAN based TRT?

 

[Gman86]

why did you stop the NAN based TRT?

Because at the time I was worried that too much nandrolone would shut me down fertility wise more so than using testosterone as my base. Not sure if that’s even true tho. Have always just heard that nandrolone, or at least deca shuts down fertility more than test does. The other reason was because I didn’t know what to make of all the stuff about nandrolone and it effecting the heart negatively, compared to test. Again, not sure if this is even true or not about nandrolone. Back then when I was on it I just got a little paranoid about both, and a little worried about using a nandrolone base long term. I think I’m less worried about either currently, but I have my protocol pretty dialed in atm, using a test base, and don’t really want to completely switch things up with everything I have going on in my personal life rn. Everything in my personal life is going really well, and don’t want to risk messing anything up by doing a total 180 with my protocol. But I do think I felt best overall on the nandrolone base. Mainly mood and sexual wise. So I highly recommend it to anyone that is having a really hard time getting dialed in using a test based protocol

 

[SSHSSA74]

Because at the time I was worried that too much nandrolone would shut me down fertility wise more so than using testosterone as my base. Not sure if that’s even true tho. Have always just heard that nandrolone, or at least deca shuts down fertility more than test does. The other reason was because I didn’t know what to make of all the stuff about nandrolone and it effecting the heart negatively, compared to test. Again, not sure if this is even true or not about nandrolone. Back then when I was on it I just got a little paranoid about both, and a little worried about using a nandrolone base long term. I think I’m less worried about either currently, but I have my protocol pretty dialed in atm, using a test base, and don’t really want to completely switch things up with everything I have going on in my personal life rn. Everything in my personal life is going really well, and don’t want to risk messing anything up by doing a total 180 with my protocol. But I do think I felt best overall on the nandrolone base. Mainly mood and sexual wise. So I highly recommend it to anyone that is having a really hard time getting dialed in using a test based protocol

Cool. thanks for the info. Do yo0u recall your specific protocol back then?

 

[SSHSSA74]

Cool. thanks for the info. Do yo0u recall your specific protocol back then?

I somewhat remember you discussing it.

 

[Pnw0031]

So ya the sleep issues u guys are experiencing clearly have a lot more to do with ur protocols, and specific compounds in some cases, than I realized. But it’s still important to take into consideration the fact that compounds and specific protocols can have vastly different reactions in someone, depending on how their body is functioning overall. The same person can react extremely differently to the same protocol, depending on the state that their body is in, and how it’s functioning at the time. I’ve been a health freak my whole life. And I’ve tried every protocol under the sun, and at every dosage that u can think of, and never once has my sleep been effected. I ran prop for a good amount of time a few years ago. Overall I tend to do well no matter what protocol or dosage scheme I use, or what compounds I’m implementing at the time. And I don’t think it’s a coincidence. I think me keeping my body in a healthy state has a lot to do with it.

But as far as ur issues go with getting all the positives that ur looking for, without any negatives to go along with it, and trying to find a protocol that’s a good balance of all the things ur looking for, have u tried using enanthate? I know the half life is very close to cypionate, but some people do still react to it differently. Also, do u think the sleep issues on prop might have anything to do with rapidly spiking DHT levels? If so, have u considered using maybe a combo of test prop and nandrolone? Maybe slightly lower ur prop dose down to 50mg/ week, and add in 50mg of nandrolone per week. Lowering ur prop dose would decrease DHT spikes, and the DHN from nandrolone will also compete with the DHT u have in ur system to a degree, but the 50mg of nandrolone will give u the androgens that ur looking for to get the benefits u were getting from the 20mg of prop daily. Like the extra motivation, drive and gym benefits. U can also just keep ur prop dose the same at 70mg/ week, and add in say 50mg/ week of nandrolone. 120mg of total androgens per week would still be less than the total amount of androgens u were using when u were on 20mg/ day of prop. U could also try a nandrolone based protocol. I’ve never had better erections than when I was using a nandrolone based protocol with low dose test. Literal diamonds, and on demand whenever I wanted them. If there’s over stimulation going on with the prop that’s causing ur sleep issues, a nandrolone base might be perfect for u. Most people on it feel calm, cool and collected, like all of us want to feel on hrt. And like I said, erections were a 12/10 for me the whole time on a nandrolone base. So it might give u the best of both worlds, in regards to what ur looking for. Plus nandrolone is more anabolic than test, so u would probably see improvements in the gym compared to a test based protocol

For adding nandrolone to a trt protocol would you recommend deca or NPP? I haven’t tried anything with a propionate ester before but I’m afraid it will cause insomnia as well.

 

[Gman86]

For adding nandrolone to a trt protocol would you recommend deca or NPP? I haven’t tried anything with a propionate ester before but I’m afraid it will cause insomnia as well.

Definitely NPP if u know for a fact it’s what it’s supposed to be. But I would probably go with deca if u can get it prescribed. At least u’ll know it’s 100% what it’s supposed to be. Really wish compounding pharmacies would make NPP. Hoping they will one day

 

[Pnw0031]

Definitely NPP if u know for a fact it’s what it’s supposed to be. But I would probably go with deca if u can get it prescribed. At least u’ll know it’s 100% what it’s supposed to be. Really wish compounding pharmacies would make NPP. Hoping they will one day

No way I can get deca prescribed unfortunately… but my ugl is extremely trustworthy. One day they’ll make NPP. Do you prefer deca or npp?

 

[Gman86]

No way I can get deca prescribed unfortunately… but my ugl is extremely trustworthy. One day they’ll make NPP. Do you prefer deca or npp?

I prefer NPP for sure

 

[Pnw0031]

No disrespect, but do you really think those suggestions you made are really game changers (the holy grail) for majority of us when it comes to sleep? I already eat healthy/nutritional foods, have a complete dark room with no sunlight getting in, I take magnesium, melatonan, ashwughanda (lower night cortisol), I'm in good shape, etc..... the only stress I have in my life is not getting sleep..... It still takes a little while to fall asleep (not as bad as it used to be to fall asleep), but when I do fall asleep, I can't stay asleep... It is broken, waking up multiple times a night. Something internal is not allowing me to continuously sleep and reach deep sleep... this all started shortly after starting TRT 10 plus years ago. I never had any problem with sleep/sleeping before starting TRT and I eat healthier now than I did in my younger years. Hell, before TRT, I could literally drink a cup a coffee and be on the computer with all kinds of light, noises, distractions going on and instantly fall asleep when I lay my head on my pillow and I would stay asleep.

So the reason why we are focusing on our trt protocols is because it is the common denominator we have all come to the conclusion that our TRT is the central issue for our sleep issues whether it be trt induced apnea, cns stimulation, cortisol spiking, sex hormones and other hormone issues (E2, prolactin, progesterone, pregnenelone), etc....

Man unfortunately this sounds exactly like me, almost thought I wrote this myself lol. Only difference is the time we’ve been on trt is different but I think my sleep was poor naturally but honestly in retrospect I think I attribute that to my illness. I’ve read this thread million times and I think I’m in the camp that cyp doesn’t work for me. Not sure what fully convinced me to try a new ester but it probably was me noticing I started buying melatonin around the time I switched from androgel to test c. Im going to try prop starting Friday with 10mg am injections. My shbg is somewhat low at 23 but I’m not a hardcore aromatizer. E2 stays around 41. I’ve tried neurosteroids but honestly they just made me tired and didn’t seem to help deep sleep. I did try mk not long after my orchiectomy and it worked fairly well. Actually used it for surgery recovery instead of as a ped or even for sleep and it worked ridiculously well- reversed wound breakdown and shortened my recovery time by like 2-3 weeks. Insane compound.

 

[Gman86]

Man unfortunately this sounds exactly like me, almost thought I wrote this myself lol. Only difference is the time we’ve been on trt is different but I think my sleep was poor naturally but honestly in retrospect I think I attribute that to my illness. I’ve read this thread million times and I think I’m in the camp that cyp doesn’t work for me. Not sure what fully convinced me to try a new ester but it probably was me noticing I started buying melatonin around the time I switched from androgel to test c. Im going to try prop starting Friday with 10mg am injections. My shbg is somewhat low at 23 but I’m not a hardcore aromatizer. E2 stays around 41. I’ve tried neurosteroids but honestly they just made me tired and didn’t seem to help deep sleep. I did try mk not long after my orchiectomy and it worked fairly well. Actually used it for surgery recovery instead of as a ped or even for sleep and it worked ridiculously well- reversed wound breakdown and shortened my recovery time by like 2-3 weeks. Insane compound.

Any downsides to MK-677 for u? Or any reasons why ur not currently taking it?

 

[Pnw0031]

Any downsides to MK-677 for u? Or any reasons why ur not currently taking it?

The only one I honestly remember was fatigue, I think I simply got bored and tired of it. It does raise prolactin over time and fatigue is a symptom of prolactin slightly out of range but I most definitely would have remembered sensitive nipples or other prolactin symptoms. It’s somewhat expensive but that wasn’t and hasn’t been a factor for not taking it. To be honest, I don’t know, considering cycling it again- because of insulin resistance you have to cycle it but my blood glucose stayed well within healthy range on it. I think at the tail end of the cycle my bg was 86 when prediabetes starts at 100 so for something that potentially cause serious blood sugar issues I was fine. I guess those are the two major downsides- insulin resistance and raised prolactin but those are common in anything that influences hgh.

 

[Gman86]

The only one I honestly remember was fatigue, I think I simply got bored and tired of it. It does raise prolactin over time and fatigue is a symptom of prolactin slightly out of range but I most definitely would have remembered sensitive nipples or other prolactin symptoms. It’s somewhat expensive but that wasn’t and hasn’t been a factor for not taking it. To be honest, I don’t know, considering cycling it again- because of insulin resistance you have to cycle it but my blood glucose stayed well within healthy range on it. I think at the tail end of the cycle my bg was 86 when prediabetes starts at 100 so for something that potentially cause serious blood sugar issues I was fine. I guess those are the two major downsides- insulin resistance and raised prolactin but those are common in anything that influences hgh.

What dose of mk were u taking? And were u taking it right before bed?

 

[Pnw0031]

What dose of mk were u taking? And were u taking it right before bed?

Iirc the concentration was 25mg/ml and I took my dose post workout, I actually found that taking it right before bed kept me up for a bit. Not sure why, but it seems everything keeps me up haha. I tried taking it before bed and I felt overstimulated and just plain weird. Not sure if anyone else has experienced this but the first time I took mk I almost got a slight high, seems some on injectable hgh get that that feeling as well. I’d recommend starting with 6.25 for 2 days then titrating up. After the first day high I dropped to 6.25mg for two days, 12.5mg for two, then up to 25mg daily in less than a week and avoided that weird feeling and any negative sides.

 

[HyperResponder]

Can anyone provide a theory for my sleep disturbance? I don't have trouble falling asleep, but I wake up around 3AM and realize that my mind has been actively working on a problem for the hour before. Although I am getting some sleep, it's not very restful. Does anyone have evidence that this is caused by a drop in DHT? Also, are there any ways to mitigate this issue while still keeping my Testosterone Propionate levels high? I prefer a 4:3 ratio, but currently, I am using a 6:3 ratio of Testosterone Enanthate to Testosterone Propionate and still not sleeping well.

I'm also waking up sweating, but that could be and estrogen problem. Anyone else?

 

[Willyt]

Can anyone provide a theory for my sleep disturbance? I don't have trouble falling asleep, but I wake up around 3AM and realize that my mind has been actively working on a problem for the hour before. Although I am getting some sleep, it's not very restful. Does anyone have evidence that this is caused by a drop in DHT? Also, are there any ways to mitigate this issue while still keeping my Testosterone Propionate levels high? I prefer a 4:3 ratio, but currently, I am using a 6:3 ratio of Testosterone Enanthate to Testosterone Propionate and still not sleeping well.

I'm also waking up sweating, but that could be and estrogen problem. Anyone else?

Many of us have had similar problems. In my experience, I often get immediate relief on the early morning wakeups by lowering the dose. It sucks, but it is a balancing act. T versus sleep.