T Propionate protocol

[tropicaldaze1950]

i only tried UGL. it is mct oil based. no idea what preservant they use. i got small PIP but it is worth the way i feel

Getting a good response is the most important aspect.

 

[SSHSSA74]

following; been on week 2 of Tprop protocol. i tried various doses. from 20mg-40mg daily.
around 25mg/day i my sweet spot. at close to 40mg i feel agitated mid-day and a bit anxious. I have no idea how some can do T cycles at 500mg or so. My previous T protocol was 200mg/week. I am ultra low shbg (11 or so), and i don't feel well below 150mg. my labs at 200mg/cyp were like 500ng/total, 20/free on 3xweek protocol
I have been getting massive AM erections on T prop, where none of this on cyp.
my mood energy is better as well. libido went up, and is normal (EOD desire for sex which is the sweet spot for ne)
@tropicaldaze1950 sorry to hear about your sleep issues. I withdrew clonazepam years ago from a 1+ year use. its a rough ride but doable. i can prob write a book about it and what helps. benzos mess up sleep quality big time unfortunately long term and make you numb to just about everything
I really like prop. you can make quick adjustments and feel the different within a day.
higher peak and lower lows is probably a good idea within a 24 range, similar to a more natural cycle.
I too deal with intermittent sleep issues, and too high T somewhat is related to this. but it is only part of the picture. there is so many moving parts to this. I have been supplementing with PSerine as well which helps.
Overall I think that work/life stress is by far the biggest chunk of the sleep cake. I noticed that when on vacation I sleep like a baby, even when I ramp my T dose/caffeine and all sort of anti-sleep things. where on a stressful week the smallest variations like a cigar at night will mess it up big time.
my T has been UGL but i plan to work my provider/empower to get 'proper' T prop during my next visit.
thank you all for sharing experiences.

Do you feel like a "down" or a "dump" at the end of the day due to the fast acting ester?

 

[t_spacemonkey]

Do you feel like a "down" or a "dump" at the end of the day due to the fast acting ester?

def up overall. i get no downs at all. but a positive up no anxiety. i even tried 50mg daily. cyp would send me into panic attacks at that level

 

[SSHSSA74]

def up overall. i get no downs at all. but a positive up no anxiety. i even tried 50mg daily. cyp would send me into panic attacks at that level

Good to hear. thanks for the reply.

 

[BillyJ03z]

i think i mentioned it earlier but my erections and libido are phenomenal on prop. this stuff is just so expensive. 180usd for 1000mg at empower. this is 3x higher then cyp. at UGL this costs 30usd

At Empower Pharmacy I pay about $60 for 10ml of Prop, actually $48 after military discount...

 

[BillyJ03z]

It’s arguable that the reason some guys feel better on prop, vs longer esters, is actually due to the peaks and valleys, and also those peaks and valleys possibly leading to less HPTA suppression. So it’s possible that guys may feel better on an EOD injection frequency with prop, than ED. The more constant levels of test we have, the more suppressed the HPTA is gonna be. Less suppression of the HPTA could theoretically result in other hormones being less suppressed. This has been seen with test cream I believe. There’s also studies showing that men’s sperm counts were higher on test prop, vs cyp and enanthate, using the same exact dosage. Which I assume proves that the peaks and valleys of prop are resulting in less suppression. So I wouldn’t be surprised at all if some guys feel better using prop EOD vs ED

I felt like absolute crap when I was on Cyp... I think my levels were way too steady throughout the day and night on Cyp and I believe it was a big factor to my sleep issues and not too mention I was retaining alot of water. Since making the commitment to Prop the water weight has significantly dropped and my sleep has improved (not great, but alot better than when I was on Cyp). Further, my libidio has increased and I do feel more energetic, which could be attributed to a little bit better sleep I have been getting. I've also been taking 30mg Pregnenelone and 20 mg DHEA which I think have been helping.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

I felt like absolute crap when I was on Cyp... I think my levels were way too steady throughout the day and night on Cyp and I believe it was a big factor to my sleep issues and not too mention I was retaining alot of water. Since making the commitment to Prop the water weight has significantly dropped and my sleep has improved (not great, but alot better than when I was on Cyp). Further, my libidio has increased and I do feel more energetic, which could be attributed to a little bit better sleep I have been getting. I've also been taking 30mg Pregnenelone and 20 mg DHEA which I think have been helping.

that is exactly my own exp. not going back to cyp although I wonder if a small lets say 3x week dose of cyp in addition to prop would be beneficial. lets say you are on 150mg T weekly, you do 100mg prop and 50mg cyp

 

[t_spacemonkey]

At Empower Pharmacy I pay about $60 for 10ml of Prop, actually $48 after military discount...

are you with defy? the only one I see if test prop for 91usd 100mg/ml. which is about 30% more expensive per mg then cyp

 

[Gman86]

that is exactly my own exp. not going back to cyp although I wonder if a small lets say 3x week dose of cyp in addition to prop would be beneficial. lets say you are on 150mg T weekly, you do 100mg prop and 50mg cyp

u don’t think one of the reasons u feel better on prop is due to the fluctuations in ur test levels on prop, and possibly less suppression of ur HPTA, as well as increased dopamine spikes from the fluctuating test levels? If u were to add cyp back in, even with the prop, I would eliminate any fluctuations. Or do u think that prop makes u feel better due to other reasons? If so, what do u think those reasons are?

 

[t_spacemonkey]

u don’t think one of the reasons u feel better on prop is due to the fluctuations in ur test levels on prop, and possibly less suppression of ur HPTA, as well as increased dopamine spikes from the fluctuating test levels? If u were to add cyp back in, even with the prop, I would eliminate any fluctuations. Or do u think that prop makes u feel better due to other reasons? If so, what do u think those reasons are?

100% fluctuations since it mimics a natural cycle. the steady 24h levels are garbage IMO. your body is not designed to run like this. everything cycles in some way in our bodies. what really surprised me that even on a mini Tprop cycle i felt pretty amazing. 300mg/week. no anxiety. on cyp this would be hell for me.
my thinking for adding a small amount of cyp is to raise the baseline a bit to see any difference. but maybe this is nonsense

 

[Gman86]

100% fluctuations since it mimics a natural cycle. the steady 24h levels are garbage IMO. your body is not designed to run like this. everything cycles in some way in our bodies. what really surprised me that even on a mini Tprop cycle i felt pretty amazing. 300mg/week. no anxiety. on cyp this would be hell for me.
my thinking for adding a small amount of cyp is to raise the baseline a bit to see any difference. but maybe this is nonsense

i mean nobody can say whether u’d feel better or not doing that. Only way to know is to try it. I would assume u would feel worse due to not having the fluctuations anymore that are possibly a big factor in why u feel good currently. But I’m all about experimenting and trial and error, and seeing what works and what doesn’t, vs guessing or theorizing. The body is way too complicated to predict what’s gonna happen a lot of the time. And we’re all so individually different on top of it. So I say try it out and see. Worst case scenario u feel worse, and u drop the cyp and go back on the protocol ur currently using

 

[Cataceous]

...
my thinking for adding a small amount of cyp is to raise the baseline a bit to see any difference. but maybe this is nonsense

We have some threads on the blends, which this effectively is. The advantage over straight propionate is to make the daily hormonal fluctuations physiological; straight propionate leads to excessive swings.

Tips on how to blend propionate with enanthate (or cypionate)?

I have been having some success with low dose daily propionate for the last several months. Dose levels have ranged from 8-10 mg injected every morning after waking. Overall, it has been a far better experience than my previous cypionate protocol of 80-100 per week (split every 3.5 days)...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Gman86]

We have some threads on the blends, which this effectively is. The advantage over straight propionate is to make the daily hormonal fluctuations physiological; straight propionate leads to excessive swings.

Tips on how to blend propionate with enanthate (or cypionate)?

I have been having some success with low dose daily propionate for the last several months. Dose levels have ranged from 8-10 mg injected every morning after waking. Overall, it has been a far better experience than my previous cypionate protocol of 80-100 per week (split every 3.5 days)...

www.excelmale.com

Excessive swings even while injecting daily?

 

[t_spacemonkey]

Excessive swings even while injecting daily?

since prop has a half life of 20h or so, if you lets say inject 25mg, before next injection you still have plenty of T. I had no issues with swings so far, except really hard a long erections every AM 5-7.

 

[Cataceous]

Excessive swings even while injecting daily?

Yes. My own measurements with daily propionate showed serum testosterone varying roughly +/-50% about average levels, which is in line with the nominal 19-hour half-life. In healthy young men the natural daily variation tops out at around +/-25%.

 

[Gman86]

Yes. My own measurements with daily propionate showed serum testosterone varying roughly +/-50% about average levels, which is in line with the nominal 19-hour half-life. In healthy young men the natural daily variation tops out at around +/-25%.

really? I thought it’s very common for natural men’s test levels to drop at least 50% from morning to evening?

 

[Cataceous]

really? I thought it’s very common for natural men’s test levels to drop at least 50% from morning to evening?

Peak-to-trough drop is a different measurement. A 50% drop corresponds to +/-33% variation about the mean, still a bit large compared to normal physiology.

 

[Willyt]

Good idea. I’m gonna try and do that tomorrow

Did you find out from Empower pharmacist the reason why Enanthate only contains benzyl alcohol, but no benzoate like Prop?

 

[BillyJ03z]

are you with defy? the only one I see if test prop for 91usd 100mg/ml. which is about 30% more expensive per mg then cyp

I use my local GP doctor for TRT and she orders through Empower Pharmacy.

 

[BillyJ03z]

Peak-to-trough drop is a different measurement. A 50% drop corresponds to +/-33% variation about the mean, still a bit large compared to normal physiology.

Based on my most recent lab blood work testing at 4 hr post, 10 hr post and 24 hr post/trough with Prop @ 15mg/ed SQ.... I am happy and feel I am in the best position that I'm ever gonna be in with TRT at this point. I don't believe it's coincidence that my sleep is slowly improving especially as I can see how my levels gradually drop from Peak to trough with no ridiculous supraphysiological swings at any point. Only improvement I could see to do is to inject at 5am instead of my usual 730-8am.
(lab corp values 280.0 - 1,100.0 ng/dL)
4hr post inject: 1312
10hr post inject: 1122
24hr post inject: 624