Sensitive to E2 - subq and HCG

trtthings

Member
Hi guys,

I'm very sensitive to medium to medium high E2. I feel like absolute shit, depressed, anxious, low libido.

I talked to a new doctor who wants to put me on subq test Cyp and HCG:

As far as I understand there's more aromatase in the fat, and so I'd think I would aromatise more with subq.

And HCG is very estrogenic as well is I understand correctly. Is this a good plan to try?
 

madman

Member
Hi guys,

I'm very sensitive to medium to medium high E2. I feel like absolute shit, depressed, anxious, low libido.

I talked to a new doctor who wants to put me on subq test Cyp and HCG:

As far as I understand there's more aromatase in the fat, and so I'd think I would aromatise more with subq.

And HCG is very estrogenic as well is I understand correctly. Is this a good plan to try?

Whether injecting IM let alone sub-q the esterified T does not convert to E2 until the ester has been cleaved which happens only when it enters the bloodstream and as stated below....."Subsequently, the prodrug permeates through the wall of blood cells and is hydrolyzed"



Regarding hCG use, it will increase ITT (intra-testicular testosterone) which will increase estradiol and to what degree will depend on the dose used/individual.
 

madman

Member
Hi guys,

I'm very sensitive to medium to medium high E2. I feel like absolute shit, depressed, anxious, low libido.

I talked to a new doctor who wants to put me on subq test Cyp and HCG:

As far as I understand there's more aromatase in the fat, and so I'd think I would aromatise more with subq.

And HCG is very estrogenic as well is I understand correctly. Is this a good plan to try?
Sure as many will use trt along with hCG.

Personally, I would hold off on the hCG for the first 8 weeks so you can see how your body reacts to T only let alone where such protocol (dose T/injection frequency) will have your trough TT/FT/e2 levels.

Depending on the dose of T/hCG you are started on it may very well have your TT/FT/e2 levels too high off the hop.

Do what you feel is best for you!
 

trtthings

Member
Thanks madman. Quality information and knowledge as always!

I agree with the HCG thing, I feel like I'd be adding complexity by putting it in right away. I want to see if I can find balance with just the cyp / AI.

Another thing I wonder is, is everybody injecting into their stomach fat? And does it not show if you're doing it repeatedly? I'm more comfortable doing it in areas no one will look at.

Edit:
* I'm high SHBG in general and we chose to split the dose up for M/W/F. I think that was to address the problem I seem to have with E2. But what does it mean for SHBG?
* He mentioned that Proviron might be a solution for the SHBG, do you have any experience with that?
* This doctor seemed to care about getting my free testosterone up to a good level, as opposed to just looking at total T. I've almost always just looked at total T so I find it hard to imagine what a good level of FT is like.
 
Last edited:

madman

Member
Thanks madman. Quality information and knowledge as always!

I agree with the HCG thing, I feel like I'd be adding complexity by putting it in right away. I want to see if I can find balance with just the cyp / AI.

Another thing I wonder is, is everybody injecting into their stomach fat? And does it not show if you're doing it repeatedly? I'm more comfortable doing it in areas no one will look at.

Edit:
* I'm high SHBG in general and we chose to split the dose up for M/W/F. I think that was to address the problem I seem to have with E2. But what does it mean for SHBG?
* He mentioned that Proviron might be a solution for the SHBG, do you have any experience with that?
* This doctor seemed to care about getting my free testosterone up to a good level, as opposed to just looking at total T. I've almost always just looked at total T so I find it hard to imagine what a good level of FT is like.



is everybody injecting into their stomach fat? And does it not show if you're doing it repeatedly? I'm more comfortable doing it in areas no one will look at.

Whether injecting IM (deep/shallow) or sub-q you have many options for injection sites.

Although when injecting strictly sub-q the abdominal region may be more common there are many other sites to choose from.

Most on trt are using fixed insulin syringes 27-31G (various needle lengths) and when injecting sub-q or IM scar tissue/trauma would be minimal.

Something to keep in mind is there are some men who do not do well-injecting sub-q as it can cause lump/swelling but is far from common and usually happens when injecting high volumes of oil/too fast or one has a sensitivity to the ester/excipients.

Also, some claim to have issues with absorption which is far from common.

Injecting strictly sub-q may be less painful/minimize tissue trauma but again it comes down to the individual.

You need to find what method suits you best.





I'm high SHBG in general and we chose to split the dose up for M/W/F. I think that was to address the problem I seem to have with E2. But what does it mean for SHBG?

Injecting higher doses once weekly would have a larger impact on driving down SHBG but even then it depends on the individual as some may notice a larger drop and others not so drastic.

Depending on dose T used/injection frequency it is not a given that SHBG will be driven down as some will only notice a slight drop or it stays around pre-trt levels.

Pre-trt my SHBG was 34 nmol/L.

I have been on trt for almost 4 years (T only protocol) no AI/hCG and I was injecting 150 mg/week (75 mg every 3.5 days) my SHBG barely budged as it now sits at 30-31 nmol/L and that is with high TT/FT levels.

To be honest the c-17 alpha-alkylated orals such as methyltestosterone, oxandrolone, stanozolol, methandrostenolone, fluoxymesterone, and oxymetholone would have the biggest impact on driving down SHBG.

Some on trt is adding low doses of oxandrolone or stanozolol for such purpose but it is not something you would want to stay on for the long-term as they can have a negative effect on lipids (drive down HDL/raise LDL) depending on the dose used.




He mentioned that Proviron might be a solution for the SHBG, do you have any experience with that?

Mesterolone is very effective when used in the right dose but it is not used in the US let alone some other countries.

*In fact, due to its extremely high affinity for plasma binding proteins such as SHBG, mesterolone may actually work to potentate the activity of other steroids by displacing a higher percentage into a free, unbound state.




Availability
Mesterolone is available widely throughout the world, including in the United Kingdom, Australia, and South Africa, as well as many non-English-speaking countries.[19][29] It is not available in the United States, Canada, or New Zealand.[19][29] The drug has never been marketed in the United States.[26]

Legal status
Mesterolone, along with other AAS, is a schedule III controlled substance in the United States under the Controlled Substances Act and a schedule IV controlled substance in Canada under the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act.[9][30]





William Llewellyn's ANABOLICS

Description:
Proviron® is Schering’s (now Bayer’s) brand name for the oral androgen mesterolone (1-methyl dihydrotestosterone). Similar to dihydrotestosterone, mesterolone is a strong androgen with only a weak level of anabolic activity. This is due to the fact that like dihydrotestosterone, mesterolone is rapidly reduced to inactive diol metabolites in muscle tissue where concentrations of the 3-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzyme are high. The belief that the weak anabolic nature of this compound indicates a tendency to block the androgen receptor in muscle tissue, thereby reducing the gains of other more potent muscle-building steroids, should likewise not be taken seriously. In fact, due to its extremely high affinity for plasma binding proteins such as SHBG, mesterolone may actually work to potentate the activity of other steroids by displacing a higher percentage into a free, unbound state. Among athletes, mesterolone is primarily used to increase androgen levels when dieting or preparing for a contest, and as an anti-estrogen due to its intrinsic ability to antagonize the aromatase enzyme.




This doctor seemed to care about getting my free testosterone up to a good level, as opposed to just looking at total T. I've almost always just looked at total T so I find it hard to imagine what a good level of FT is like.

That is what you want to hear.

Although TT is important to know many including most of the uniformed doctors do not understand that FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of testosterone responsible for the beneficial effects.

Testosterone and more importantly its metabolites estradiol/DHT plays a huge role and is needed in healthy amounts to experiencing the full spectrum of beneficial effects.
 

trtthings

Member
is everybody injecting into their stomach fat? And does it not show if you're doing it repeatedly? I'm more comfortable doing it in areas no one will look at.

Whether injecting IM (deep/shallow) or sub-q you have many options for injection sites.

Although when injecting strictly sub-q the abdominal region may be more common there are many other sites to choose from.

Most on trt are using fixed insulin syringes 27-31G (various needle lengths) and when injecting sub-q or IM scar tissue/trauma would be minimal.

Something to keep in mind is there are some men who do not do well-injecting sub-q as it can cause lump/swelling but is far from common and usually happens when injecting high volumes of oil/too fast or one has a sensitivity to the ester/excipients.

Also, some claim to have issues with absorption which is far from common.

Injecting strictly sub-q may be less painful/minimize tissue trauma but again it comes down to the individual.

You need to find what method suits you best.





I'm high SHBG in general and we chose to split the dose up for M/W/F. I think that was to address the problem I seem to have with E2. But what does it mean for SHBG?

Injecting higher doses once weekly would have a larger impact on driving down SHBG but even then it depends on the individual as some may notice a larger drop and others not so drastic.

Depending on dose T used/injection frequency it is not a given that SHBG will be driven down as some will only notice a slight drop or it stays around pre-trt levels.

Pre-trt my SHBG was 34 nmol/L.

I have been on trt for almost 4 years (T only protocol) no AI/hCG and I was injecting 150 mg/week (75 mg every 3.5 days) my SHBG barely budged as it now sits at 30-31 nmol/L and that is with high TT/FT levels.

To be honest the c-17 alpha-alkylated orals such as methyltestosterone, oxandrolone, stanozolol, methandrostenolone, fluoxymesterone, and oxymetholone would have the biggest impact on driving down SHBG.

Some on trt is adding low doses of oxandrolone or stanozolol for such purpose but it is not something you would want to stay on for the long-term as they can have a negative effect on lipids (drive down HDL/raise LDL) depending on the dose used.




He mentioned that Proviron might be a solution for the SHBG, do you have any experience with that?

Mesterolone is very effective when used in the right dose but it is not used in the US let alone some other countries.

*In fact, due to its extremely high affinity for plasma binding proteins such as SHBG, mesterolone may actually work to potentate the activity of other steroids by displacing a higher percentage into a free, unbound state.




Availability
Mesterolone is available widely throughout the world, including in the United Kingdom, Australia, and South Africa, as well as many non-English-speaking countries.[19][29] It is not available in the United States, Canada, or New Zealand.[19][29] The drug has never been marketed in the United States.[26]

Legal status
Mesterolone, along with other AAS, is a schedule III controlled substance in the United States under the Controlled Substances Act and a schedule IV controlled substance in Canada under the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act.[9][30]





William Llewellyn's ANABOLICS

Description:
Proviron® is Schering’s (now Bayer’s) brand name for the oral androgen mesterolone (1-methyl dihydrotestosterone). Similar to dihydrotestosterone, mesterolone is a strong androgen with only a weak level of anabolic activity. This is due to the fact that like dihydrotestosterone, mesterolone is rapidly reduced to inactive diol metabolites in muscle tissue where concentrations of the 3-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzyme are high. The belief that the weak anabolic nature of this compound indicates a tendency to block the androgen receptor in muscle tissue, thereby reducing the gains of other more potent muscle-building steroids, should likewise not be taken seriously. In fact, due to its extremely high affinity for plasma binding proteins such as SHBG, mesterolone may actually work to potentate the activity of other steroids by displacing a higher percentage into a free, unbound state. Among athletes, mesterolone is primarily used to increase androgen levels when dieting or preparing for a contest, and as an anti-estrogen due to its intrinsic ability to antagonize the aromatase enzyme.




This doctor seemed to care about getting my free testosterone up to a good level, as opposed to just looking at total T. I've almost always just looked at total T so I find it hard to imagine what a good level of FT is like.

That is what you want to hear.

Although TT is important to know many including most of the uniformed doctors do not understand that FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of testosterone responsible for the beneficial effects.

Testosterone and more importantly its metabolites estradiol/DHT plays a huge role and is needed in healthy amounts to experiencing the full spectrum of beneficial effects.
Thanks a ton for the information. Will be interesting to see how this will work going forward. The doc wants me on 120mg, 40x3 per week, and 500 IU HCG per week. I might skip the HCG at the start as you suggested.

P.s. what is your regimen these days? Are you on HCG?
 

Cataceous

Well-Known Member
...
Another thing I wonder is, is everybody injecting into their stomach fat? And does it not show if you're doing it repeatedly? I'm more comfortable doing it in areas no one will look at.
...
This little patch of skin to the left of my navel has seen over 1,000 injections this year. Can you tell? Maybe it helps that they were all with 31-gauge needles.
Injection Site.jpg
 

Cataceous

Well-Known Member
Super interesting, thanks for sharing that. Did you purposefully do it all in the same place to see if it showed?
It wasn't for that purpose. Mainly it's a convenient spot for quickly doing daytime injections, and I was already using my right side for bedtime injections.
 

madman

Member
Thanks a ton for the information. Will be interesting to see how this will work going forward. The doc wants me on 120mg, 40x3 per week, and 500 IU HCG per week. I might skip the HCG at the start as you suggested.

P.s. what is your regimen these days? Are you on HCG?
T only as of now may add hCG sooner or later.
 

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