I replace all my hormones. Here is what I learned.

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Hormetheus

Member
Update: After using HC for around 2 years, I was able to get off the HC, effectively resetting my HPA-setpoint to a higher baseline. I have now been off all HC for 4 months and I feel perfectly fine. Also, HC is the most dangerous, difficult, and most cumbersome hormone to replace so I am glad I was able to reset my HPA-axis.
 

bixt

Active Member
I always notice people post and say "when you come off, you return to your orignal baseline". As you have pointed out, this is not nessesarily true. I believe while "on" a cocktail of hormones, if the user takes steps to vastly improve their health and athletic performance, the now healthy body is able to remain healthy when the hormones are ceased. This could mean a higher setpoint for certain hormones.
 

Stoak

Member
My updated hormone protocol:

  • Sex hormones (lowered my dosage): Testosterone cypionate (40mg subcutaneously 2x/week), HCG (125iu subQ 2x/week), FSH (50iu subQ 2x/week), anastrozole (0.25mg/week) (For more info on how I replace male sex hormones, click here.)
  • Adrenals (same dosage): 20mg hydrocortisone-equivalent per day (split into five daily doses), 0.05mg fludrocortisone, 25mg DHEA, 6.25mg pregnenolone
  • Thyroid (increased my dosage): 62.5mcg T4 and 4x5mcg T3 taken 6h apart. (Click here for more info.)
  • GH/IGF1: 0.5 IU GH in the morning
So far things have been good. I esp. like the reduction in hunger and water retention that came from decreasing testosterone

I noticed that you added FSH... you've been on HRT for 4+ years? How often are you getting a semen analysis? I recently had one done using more HCG than you per week and have zero count after 1.5 years on TRT+HCG. I was fertile just before.
 

Hormetheus

Member
I always notice people post and say "when you come off, you return to your orignal baseline". As you have pointed out, this is not nessesarily true. I believe while "on" a cocktail of hormones, if the user takes steps to vastly improve their health and athletic performance, the now healthy body is able to remain healthy when the hormones are ceased. This could mean a higher setpoint for certain hormones.
Yes, I believe this to be true as well. It should be noted though, that the reverse is also true for some (esp. if hormones are abused at high doses): namely, although rarely, some people do not recover their baseline hormones at all
 

Jurek Kletsy

New Member
Update: After using HC for around 2 years, I was able to get off the HC, effectively resetting my HPA-setpoint to a higher baseline. I have now been off all HC for 4 months and I feel perfectly fine. Also, HC is the most dangerous, difficult, and most cumbersome hormone to replace so I am glad I was able to reset my HPA-axis.

How did you proceed? More specifically, how did you raise your HPA-setpoint. I'm weening of HC myself.
 

Insight38!

New Member
Honestly your before and after picter shows the difference between somebody who is lean and healthy vs someone who is lean and healthy and exercised for 6 months.

You found out you were low in hormones and you started hormones? Show us the results of the low tests.

Usually a lot of testing is done to find out what the reason was. You did not explain anything about that.

Kind of a weird story sorry to say
 

trtthings

Active Member
Yes, I believe this to be true as well. It should be noted though, that the reverse is also true for some (esp. if hormones are abused at high doses): namely, although rarely, some people do not recover their baseline hormones at all

I'm currently taking TRT, HC, T4 and T3. Are you still replacing growth hormone?
 
Hi Hormetheus,


What is your body weight and height??

I get the impression you are not that tall from your protocol, Im wondering what the adjustment would be for me.

I read through your blog, and really appreciate the effort you went to. I didn't have cortisol issues before I got a severe infection, before then I was doing fine on TRT and thyroid, but I have had very little energy until I was put on prednisone.

I am 26y male on TRT,hcg, thyroid and was on prednisone. I was doing alright, but was on high dose prednisone due to an infection and crashed adrenals which I can see is not good for you and suppresses everything. I'm trying to shift to hydrocortisone but suffer severe fatigue tapering down. I want to switch to hydrocortisone full replacement and closer to your protocol before you went off HC.

I am 185cm,72kg. Taking 100mg sustanon a week (2 injections), hcg 150iu x 2 a week, prednisone 2.5mg and hydrocortisone 10mg a day, NDT 2 grains, 75mg T4.

Similar to you I found lower testosterone and hcg was better, I may need lower but I cant tell with the crashed adrenals. I may also need lower thyroid but again can't tell.

I run for 1 hour 10 mins every day, which maybe means I need more HC.

I'm thinking of switching to 20mg hydrocortisone spaced out 7.5mg 5mg 2.5mg 2.5mg 2.5mg. And adding pregnenolone 10mg a day, DHEA 25mga day, and melatonin 0.5 as I don't sleep that well, now I'm on wellbutrin because of low mood/energy.

Let me know if you have any thoughts on my protocol
 
Last edited:

Hormetheus

Member
Hi Hormetheus,


What is your body weight and height??

I get the impression you are not that tall from your protocol, Im wondering what the adjustment would be for me.

I read through your blog, and really appreciate the effort you went to. I didn't have cortisol issues before I got a severe infection, before then I was doing fine on TRT and thyroid, but I have had very little energy until I was put on prednisone.

I am 26y male on TRT,hcg, thyroid and was on prednisone. I was doing alright, but was on high dose prednisone due to an infection and crashed adrenals which I can see is not good for you and suppresses everything. I'm trying to shift to hydrocortisone but suffer severe fatigue tapering down. I want to switch to hydrocortisone full replacement and closer to your protocol before you went off HC.

I am 185cm,72kg. Taking 100mg sustanon a week (2 injections), hcg 150iu x 2 a week, prednisone 2.5mg and hydrocortisone 10mg a day, NDT 2 grains, 75mg T4.

Similar to you I found lower testosterone and hcg was better, I may need lower but I cant tell with the crashed adrenals. I may also need lower thyroid but again can't tell.

I run for 1 hour 10 mins every day, which maybe means I need more HC.

I'm thinking of switching to 20mg hydrocortisone spaced out 7.5mg 5mg 2.5mg 2.5mg 2.5mg. And adding pregnenolone 10mg a day, DHEA 25mga day, and melatonin 0.5 as I don't sleep that well, now I'm on wellbutrin because of low mood/energy.

Let me know if you have any thoughts on my protocol
Hello,
I can promise that over the long term you are running into problems with this protocol (likely). Also, your thyroid is way too high (at least judged on the dosage). And you running this much exacerbates your issues. I feel uncomfortable making specific suggestions here on an open forum. Furthermore, I´d need to have a lot more background information about you. You may contact me via the email provided in my articles.
 

trtthings

Active Member
Hello,
I can promise that over the long term you are running into problems with this protocol (likely). Also, your thyroid is way too high (at least judged on the dosage). And you running this much exacerbates your issues. I feel uncomfortable making specific suggestions here on an open forum. Furthermore, I´d need to have a lot more background information about you. You may contact me via the email provided in my articles.
Do you know of a way to get prescribed growth hormone in Europe?
 

Hormetheus

Member
Update:

I have now been off the GH and the cortisol for 5 months. I just got my blood results.

After weaing off GH and cortisol, these two axes are now at higher levels than they were before. On this weeks blood test ACTH was at the 85th percentile (very pulsatile so take it with a grain of salt), cortisol at the 75rth percentile, and IGF1 at around the 75th percentile as well.

This shows that -at least for me- replacing these axes with a full replacement dose for a few years did not cause any sort of permanent downregulation (and in fact, my hormones are now higher compared to where they were before -whether this is due to lifestyle changes or whether hormone treatment increased my setpoint for these hormones I do not know).
 
Thanks for the update—that's really impressive. Congrats!!

It does seem like if you dial in, got a stable life, and everything then slowly wean off one thing your body can work out the homeostasis.


Do you plan to try and get off the thyroid now, as this has been a success?
Also what is your resting heart rate/sleeping heart rate and blood pressure—This would be really helpful for me to know, as I have got a similar body to you but a bit taller/skinnier.
 
Last edited:

Hormetheus

Member
Thanks for the update—that's really impressive. Congrats!!

It does seem like if you dial in, got a stable life, and everything then slowly wean off one thing your body can work out the homeostasis.


Do you plan to try and get off the thyroid now, as this has been a success?
Also what is your resting heart rate/sleeping heart rate and blood pressure—This would be really helpful for me to know, as I have got a similar body to you but a bit taller/skinnier.
Yes, glad my hypothalamus was never damaged in the first place (which it certainly might be for some people!).

I have reduced thyroid to 75mcg T4 only a few days ago. I feel a little tired and cold as hell. Will stay at that dose and get another blood test in 2 weeks to see whether my TSH recovers or not (it was unmeasurable twice at 125mcg -after years of T3/T4 combination). Fingers crossed. Alternatively, I´ll do a T4/T3 combo with around 100mcg T4 + 5-10mcg T3
 
Good luck! I know thyroid takes a long time to clear, so will have to wait a couple of. Months to be completely sure.

I'm looking at your hormetheus website again, do you have your heart rate, blood pressure, sleeping heart rate?

Also when was the latest you took cortisol when you were taking it? and did you stress dose when feeling a bit run down.
 
Last edited:

ajax31

Member
After weaing off GH and cortisol, these two axes are now at higher levels than they were before. On this weeks blood test ACTH was at the 85th percentile (very pulsatile so take it with a grain of salt), cortisol at the 75rth percentile, and IGF1 at around the 75th percentile as well.
Which cortisol tests (total, free, AM, PM, etc.) were you using?
 

Hormetheus

Member
Good luck! I know thyroid takes a long time to clear, so will have to wait a couple of. Months to be completely sure.

I'm looking at your hormetheus website again, do you have your heart rate, blood pressure, sleeping heart rate?

Also when was the latest you took cortisol when you were taking it? and did you stress dose when feeling a bit run down.
Hell.
Yes, I do regularly monitor my vital signs.

Around 4 months ago. Now I just use the occasional 3-5mg of HC when I need it (e.g. 2x per week). When I feel run down, I do use modafinil usually (30-50mg)
 

Hormetheus

Member
Which cortisol tests (total, free, AM, PM, etc.) were you using?
Generally, cortisol is incredibly hard to test for. I have seen an elevated cortisol many times in total cortisol, but often CBG is high. Generally, a good indicator of adrenal health is DHEA-S. Other than that, in my experience, urinary and salivary cortisol are not worth much. The best may simply be a trial and error of a small dose of HC (e.g. 5mg). If you strongly feel it, you may assume that cortisol is low. If you feel nothing, then cortisol is likely not your problem.
 

Hormetheus

Member
FAQ I often get: Can I measure my cortisol with saliva or urine tests?

Yes, saliva and urine can be helpful for intra-individual comparisons, however, interpreting them in terms of where one falls in relation to others, should be taken with a huge grain of salt, in my opinion
 
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