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mcs

Member
Stats:
height: 170cm
age: 62
weight: 88kg


Main observations:
  • body recomp has been a struggle since my mid 30s.
  • weight/fat gain ramped up about 2 years ago
  • energy/calorie intake has not changed
  • training consistent 5 days/weeks resistance + cardio, but somewhat harder to work around increasing soft-tissue injuries from chronic load on elbow and shoulder tendons
  • glucose disposal has slowed; FBG has ramped up over time, although a1c has remained stable (last level 5.1).
Ok. I realize that it's 80% diet and 20% exercise to recomp (lose FAT while retaining as much lean mass as possible). But...
  • what about stubbornly elevated TSH (4-5) despite being on thyroid replacement?
  • what about if you have "fat gene" SNPs (ACE, FTO, etc) - polymorphisms that predispose me to unwanted fat.
  • what if you have below mid-range total T + low free T (not on TRT at this time)?
  • if a caloric deficit makes the most sense, what if it reduces lean mass, metabolic output, suppresses T3/thyroid function?
  • if I increase carbs for more energy to fuel workouts, I will risk going into diabetic levels with my SNPs. Last a1c was 5.1. I want to keep it there or lower. FBG is now almost always in the low 100s no matter how low carb I go.
See the conundrum I'm in?

The only positive I can say is that I'm the strongest I've ever been on lifts (~25% increase), so must've gained some lean mass, but not without adding significant adipose to the tune of about 18kg. In my case, strength is proportionate to overall weight. 1:1 ratio of body weight to lifting weight (e.g., at 77kg, I could barely curl 45kg. At 86+kg, I can curl 56kg).

Diet:
I have by default been eating a HPKD (High Protein Ketogenic Diet) - avg 2000kcals/day.
Macros @ 30-35% protein/10% carbs/50-55% fats. It's tough to get enough macros and micros with anything <2000 kcals/day for extended periods of time, especially if you train as much as I do. I eat two main meals/day.

Appetite control: hunger pangs late at night before bed.

RMR @ ~ 1500kcals.

CV health - lipids/trigs/Lp(a) - detailed in my recent post here and here.

Insulin resistance/impaired glucose disposal:
PPBG levels are intact and show good insulin response; it's the clearance after last meal that is the issue (drops and then flatlines in the low 100s). If I eat too late and.or snack, glucose metabolism freezes, thus impaired FBG. With these fasting levels, I think it will be impossible to lean out. Taking as many glucose disposal agents as possible (berberine, cinnamon, r-ALA, banaba leaf, etc.)

HRT:
Thyroid: Subclinical hypothyroidism. Taking 90mg NP-Thyroid daily; still TSH hovers >3. See my previous thyroid post for full details.

Getting on a TRT protocol has been a longstanding conundrum due to past clotting issues of unknown cause, hypertension, sleep apnea. But not doing anything has its risks also.

Total T hovers in the low to mid 400s, free and bio T is either subnormal or low normal, SHBG in the mid 40s. E2 in the low 20s, sometimes lower.
Last Total T: 484

Free T: 63.9
SHBG in mid 40s


Should I trial some enclomiphene before considering TRT?

Final Observations:
In terms of body comp, for approx. the last 10 years, I have been an exercise non-responder. This isn't to say that my workouts don't provide me with healthful benefits (i.e. lean mass retention, strength increases, cardiovascular health, stress modulation, etc.). I am talking strictly body composition.

The only time I experienced rapid fat loss was when my metabolism was unnaturally ramped up a few years back even though my calories actually increased. I couldn't believe I had a hard time keeping weight on, just the opposite of now.

CICO. Yes, it does work as a general rule, however, can certain genetic SNPs that affect fat loss make it more of a challenge?

At the end of the day, 2 things remain:


1) Hormone optimization - (growth hormone, estrogens, testosterone, insulin, thyroid)
2) Genetics - what diet is best for my genetics and will help me recomp?


SIMPLE FORMULA:
If energy intake is same or even slightly less (calories) + energy output (exercise) is same or even more + increased fat gain = genetics and hormone issues.

What else can it be?

Possible Solutions:
- bump up the IF, increase CR, OMAD, PSMF?
- cycle carbs (CKD)?
Out of all recomp diets, I like PSMF the most.


Most noticeable increase is in Android Fat.

This stands out as one of more important factors:
Android fat storage is controlled by the male reproductive hormone testosterone. Whilst higher levels of testosterone have been found to correlate well with lower central fat storage, low levels of testosterone have been found to correlate with higher levels of central fatty deposits.


Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm having a hard time believing the fat/overall weight gain is due to only to a caloric surplus.

Faulty metabolism from thyroid hormone replacement resistance or malabsorption, SIBO.

Other than thyroid and possible SIBO issues, the fact it is difficult to reverse lipid markers, hypertension, resistant recomp (lose body fat), makes me question whether this diet of ~ 55% fats, 30% protein, 15% carbs has been beneficial, neutral and deleterious.

I've been lean before, in my mid-20s. But I was able to metabolize the energy intake (kcals) more efficiently than now. So, if my energy intake is the same or even less than back then and my energy output is the same if not more now
, then what the hell else could it be but lack of hormones (GH, thyroid, testosterone, less insulin sensitive)?
 
Last edited:
Defy Medical TRT clinic doctor

sammmy

Active Member
Here is my advice based on my own experience. I am 48yo male, lean when I follow my rules, and become skinny fat when I break them - I am a sugar addict.

1. Walk continuously 1-1.5 hours a day (7000 - 1000 steps counted by phone) in a nice nature area. Weight training does not burn a lot of calories, walking does.

2. Drink a cup of green tea, at breakfast and lunch. It increases metabolism and makes you feel more satisfied for longer periods without food. I use sugar substitute sucralose with the tea.

3. Protein shake in the afternoon if you feel hunger.

4. Do not eat refined sugar or sugary fruits. Sugar stimulates appetite and leads to eating more food and sugar. I use a sugar substitute sucralose instead.

5. Do not eat refined sugar and any sugar substitute at dinner - both will make you crave even more food, creating a viscious cycle. Eat bland foods at dinner: eggs, bread, beans, lentils, eggs, soups, chicken, tomatoes. Get a sufficient amount of calories in the dinner so that you do not feel hungry hours later - you cannot fool the body with 300 calories at dinner.
 

Fernando Almaguer

Active Member
Stats:
height: 170cm
age: 62
weight: 88kg


Main observations:
  • body recomp has been a struggle since my mid 30s.
  • weight/fat gain ramped up about 2 years ago
  • energy/calorie intake has not changed
  • training consistent 5 days/weeks resistance + cardio, but somewhat harder to work around increasing soft-tissue injuries from chronic load on elbow and shoulder tendons
  • glucose disposal has slowed; FBG has ramped up over time, although a1c has remained stable (last level 5.1).
Ok. I realize that it's 80% diet and 20% exercise to recomp (lose FAT while retaining as much lean mass as possible). But...
  • what about stubbornly elevated TSH (4-5) despite being on thyroid replacement?
  • what about if you have "fat gene" SNPs (ACE, FTO, etc) - polymorphisms that predispose me to unwanted fat.
  • what if you have below mid-range total T + low free T (not on TRT at this time)?
  • if a caloric deficit makes the most sense, what if it reduces lean mass, metabolic output, suppresses T3/thyroid function?
  • if I increase carbs for more energy to fuel workouts, I will risk going into diabetic levels with my SNPs. Last a1c was 5.1. I want to keep it there or lower. FBG is now almost always in the low 100s no matter how low carb I go.
See the conundrum I'm in?

The only positive I can say is that I'm the strongest I've ever been on lifts (~25% increase), so must've gained some lean mass, but not without adding significant adipose to the tune of about 18kg. In my case, strength is proportionate to overall weight. 1:1 ratio of body weight to lifting weight (e.g., at 77kg, I could barely curl 45kg. At 86+kg, I can curl 56kg).

Diet:
I have by default been eating a HPKD (High Protein Ketogenic Diet) - avg 2000kcals/day.
Macros @ 30-35% protein/10% carbs/50-55% fats. It's tough to get enough macros and micros with anything <2000 kcals/day for extended periods of time, especially if you train as much as I do. I eat two main meals/day.

Appetite control: hunger pangs late at night before bed.

RMR @ ~ 1500kcals.

CV health - lipids/trigs/Lp(a) - detailed in my recent post here and here.

Insulin resistance/impaired glucose disposal:
PPBG levels are intact and show good insulin response; it's the clearance after last meal that is the issue (drops and then flatlines in the low 100s). If I eat too late and.or snack, glucose metabolism freezes, thus impaired FBG. With these fasting levels, I think it will be impossible to lean out. Taking as many glucose disposal agents as possible (berberine, cinnamon, r-ALA, banaba leaf, etc.)

HRT:
Thyroid: Subclinical hypothyroidism. Taking 90mg NP-Thyroid daily; still TSH hovers >3. See my previous thyroid post for full details.

Getting on a TRT protocol has been a longstanding conundrum due to past clotting issues of unknown cause, hypertension, sleep apnea. But not doing anything has its risks also.

Total T hovers in the low to mid 400s, free and bio T is either subnormal or low normal, SHBG in the mid 40s. E2 in the low 20s, sometimes lower.
Last Total T: 484

Free T: 63.9
SHBG in mid 40s


Should I trial some enclomiphene before considering TRT?

Final Observations:
In terms of body comp, for approx. the last 10 years, I have been an exercise non-responder. This isn't to say that my workouts don't provide me with healthful benefits (i.e. lean mass retention, strength increases, cardiovascular health, stress modulation, etc.). I am talking strictly body composition.

The only time I experienced rapid fat loss was when my metabolism was unnaturally ramped up a few years back even though my calories actually increased. I couldn't believe I had a hard time keeping weight on, just the opposite of now.

CICO. Yes, it does work as a general rule, however, can certain genetic SNPs that affect fat loss make it more of a challenge?

At the end of the day, 2 things remain:


1) Hormone optimization - (growth hormone, estrogens, testosterone, insulin, thyroid)
2) Genetics - what diet is best for my genetics and will help me recomp?


SIMPLE FORMULA:
If energy intake is same or even slightly less (calories) + energy output (exercise) is same or even more + increased fat gain = genetics and hormone issues.

What else can it be?

Possible Solutions:
- bump up the IF, increase CR, OMAD, PSMF?
- cycle carbs (CKD)?
Out of all recomp diets, I like PSMF the most.


Most noticeable increase is in Android Fat.

This stands out as one of more important factors:
Android fat storage is controlled by the male reproductive hormone testosterone. Whilst higher levels of testosterone have been found to correlate well with lower central fat storage, low levels of testosterone have been found to correlate with higher levels of central fatty deposits.


Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm having a hard time believing the fat/overall weight gain is due to only to a caloric surplus.

Faulty metabolism from thyroid hormone replacement resistance or malabsorption, SIBO.

Other than thyroid and possible SIBO issues, the fact it is difficult to reverse lipid markers, hypertension, resistant recomp (lose body fat), makes me question whether this diet of ~ 55% fats, 30% protein, 15% carbs has been beneficial, neutral and deleterious.

I've been lean before, in my mid-20s. But I was able to metabolize the energy intake (kcals) more efficiently than now. So, if my energy intake is the same or even less than back then and my energy output is the same if not more now
, then what the hell else could it be but lack of hormones (GH, thyroid, testosterone, less insulin sensitive)?
Ok MCS, I see you are 62.
What is your body fat percentage?

Anyhow, let us try this. Cold exposure , gradual start with cold showers and allow yourself to have a shiver response. Do not use heat to warm back up. Allow your body to ramp up on its own. Next you may try cold submersion using ice or just allow water to sit overnight in the winter. Water should be uncomfortably cold but you are able to stay in safely. Do 11 minutes per week of this and 52 minutes of sauna. Not one after the other but just as a sum for the week. This will ramp up your metabolism by creating more brown fat and will make your body an efficient furnace. If you do decide to try this know that the benefits will be more that physical and physiological. there are mental benefits as well. Let us know how it goes if you are up to it!
 

JohnTaylorHK

Active Member
Stats:
height: 170cm
age: 62
weight: 88kg


Main observations:
  • body recomp has been a struggle since my mid 30s.
  • weight/fat gain ramped up about 2 years ago
  • energy/calorie intake has not changed
  • training consistent 5 days/weeks resistance + cardio, but somewhat harder to work around increasing soft-tissue injuries from chronic load on elbow and shoulder tendons
  • glucose disposal has slowed; FBG has ramped up over time, although a1c has remained stable (last level 5.1).
Ok. I realize that it's 80% diet and 20% exercise to recomp (lose FAT while retaining as much lean mass as possible). But...
  • what about stubbornly elevated TSH (4-5) despite being on thyroid replacement?
  • what about if you have "fat gene" SNPs (ACE, FTO, etc) - polymorphisms that predispose me to unwanted fat.
  • what if you have below mid-range total T + low free T (not on TRT at this time)?
  • if a caloric deficit makes the most sense, what if it reduces lean mass, metabolic output, suppresses T3/thyroid function?
  • if I increase carbs for more energy to fuel workouts, I will risk going into diabetic levels with my SNPs. Last a1c was 5.1. I want to keep it there or lower. FBG is now almost always in the low 100s no matter how low carb I go.
See the conundrum I'm in?

The only positive I can say is that I'm the strongest I've ever been on lifts (~25% increase), so must've gained some lean mass, but not without adding significant adipose to the tune of about 18kg. In my case, strength is proportionate to overall weight. 1:1 ratio of body weight to lifting weight (e.g., at 77kg, I could barely curl 45kg. At 86+kg, I can curl 56kg).

Diet:
I have by default been eating a HPKD (High Protein Ketogenic Diet) - avg 2000kcals/day.
Macros @ 30-35% protein/10% carbs/50-55% fats. It's tough to get enough macros and micros with anything <2000 kcals/day for extended periods of time, especially if you train as much as I do. I eat two main meals/day.

Appetite control: hunger pangs late at night before bed.

RMR @ ~ 1500kcals.

CV health - lipids/trigs/Lp(a) - detailed in my recent post here and here.

Insulin resistance/impaired glucose disposal:
PPBG levels are intact and show good insulin response; it's the clearance after last meal that is the issue (drops and then flatlines in the low 100s). If I eat too late and.or snack, glucose metabolism freezes, thus impaired FBG. With these fasting levels, I think it will be impossible to lean out. Taking as many glucose disposal agents as possible (berberine, cinnamon, r-ALA, banaba leaf, etc.)

HRT:
Thyroid: Subclinical hypothyroidism. Taking 90mg NP-Thyroid daily; still TSH hovers >3. See my previous thyroid post for full details.

Getting on a TRT protocol has been a longstanding conundrum due to past clotting issues of unknown cause, hypertension, sleep apnea. But not doing anything has its risks also.

Total T hovers in the low to mid 400s, free and bio T is either subnormal or low normal, SHBG in the mid 40s. E2 in the low 20s, sometimes lower.
Last Total T: 484

Free T: 63.9
SHBG in mid 40s


Should I trial some enclomiphene before considering TRT?

Final Observations:
In terms of body comp, for approx. the last 10 years, I have been an exercise non-responder. This isn't to say that my workouts don't provide me with healthful benefits (i.e. lean mass retention, strength increases, cardiovascular health, stress modulation, etc.). I am talking strictly body composition.

The only time I experienced rapid fat loss was when my metabolism was unnaturally ramped up a few years back even though my calories actually increased. I couldn't believe I had a hard time keeping weight on, just the opposite of now.

CICO. Yes, it does work as a general rule, however, can certain genetic SNPs that affect fat loss make it more of a challenge?

At the end of the day, 2 things remain:


1) Hormone optimization - (growth hormone, estrogens, testosterone, insulin, thyroid)
2) Genetics - what diet is best for my genetics and will help me recomp?


SIMPLE FORMULA:
If energy intake is same or even slightly less (calories) + energy output (exercise) is same or even more + increased fat gain = genetics and hormone issues.

What else can it be?

Possible Solutions:
- bump up the IF, increase CR, OMAD, PSMF?
- cycle carbs (CKD)?
Out of all recomp diets, I like PSMF the most.


Most noticeable increase is in Android Fat.

This stands out as one of more important factors:
Android fat storage is controlled by the male reproductive hormone testosterone. Whilst higher levels of testosterone have been found to correlate well with lower central fat storage, low levels of testosterone have been found to correlate with higher levels of central fatty deposits.


Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm having a hard time believing the fat/overall weight gain is due to only to a caloric surplus.

Faulty metabolism from thyroid hormone replacement resistance or malabsorption, SIBO.

Other than thyroid and possible SIBO issues, the fact it is difficult to reverse lipid markers, hypertension, resistant recomp (lose body fat), makes me question whether this diet of ~ 55% fats, 30% protein, 15% carbs has been beneficial, neutral and deleterious.

I've been lean before, in my mid-20s. But I was able to metabolize the energy intake (kcals) more efficiently than now. So, if my energy intake is the same or even less than back then and my energy output is the same if not more now
, then what the hell else could it be but lack of hormones (GH, thyroid, testosterone, less insulin sensitive)?
Maximum musculature (at 5% body fat) is roughly ((height in metres) -1)*100kg. There is a more exact formula which usually gives a reasonably close result. The more body fat you carry (I guess within reason) the more muscle mass you can carry. This is why a lot of very big men are very strong. Bodybuilding should be more about sculpting than getting big, and this does not require you to be fit or strong, just big with reasonably aesthetic body fat. True fitness is not about size, it's about functional strength and reasonable flexibility to the degree that both of those are required in your daily life.

The ketogenic diet is not high protein, it's high(er) fat. Most need around 80 to 100gm protein per day. Calculate your total daily expenditure (search for a suitable online calculator) and you need to make up the deficit from the 320 calories, supplied by the protein, with good fats.

In my experience, the exercise component of your energy expenditure is minimal. My smartwatch tells me every day that my exercise now allows me to eat an extra chicken drumstick or so. The pundits would have you believe that you can consume an additional 500 calories for example.

I believe that most composition issues are caused by training incorrectly. Steady state aerobics, for example, trains your body to consume fat, so your body responds by storing fat for the next time around. Training should be supra-maximal, i.e.peak well into the anaerobic range. For me, my MHR (recorded) is 170, and I reach very close to that during 40 mins of sprint interval training. Strength exercise should be explosive and similarly tax your aerobic system (e.g 50 bodyweight squats, 50 kettlebell swings). This philosophy increases your metabolism and your Post-exercise Oxygen Consumption (EPOC). It builds functional muscle and a strong heart.

I recommend reading the book PACE by Al Spears, for a long discussion of this topic. I get my 5km sprint interval training from adapting protocols found in Jeff Galloway's book Run-walk-run.

Note this is what I believe, after research, trial and error.

I wish you good luck in your endeavours.
 

mcs

Member
Here is my advice based on my own experience. I am 48yo male, lean when I follow my rules, and become skinny fat when I break them - I am a sugar addict.

1. Walk continuously 1-1.5 hours a day (7000 - 1000 steps counted by phone) in a nice nature area. Weight training does not burn a lot of calories, walking does.

2. Drink a cup of green tea, at breakfast and lunch. It increases metabolism and makes you feel more satisfied for longer periods without food. I use sugar substitute sucralose with the tea.

3. Protein shake in the afternoon if you feel hunger.

4. Do not eat refined sugar or sugary fruits. Sugar stimulates appetite and leads to eating more food and sugar. I use a sugar substitute sucralose instead.

5. Do not eat refined sugar and any sugar substitute at dinner - both will make you crave even more food, creating a viscious cycle. Eat bland foods at dinner: eggs, bread, beans, lentils, eggs, soups, chicken, tomatoes. Get a sufficient amount of calories in the dinner so that you do not feel hungry hours later - you cannot fool the body with 300 calories at dinner.
Thanks, but am already doing all that and more.
 

mcs

Member
Ok MCS, I see you are 62.
What is your body fat percentage?

Anyhow, let us try this. Cold exposure , gradual start with cold showers and allow yourself to have a shiver response. Do not use heat to warm back up. Allow your body to ramp up on its own. Next you may try cold submersion using ice or just allow water to sit overnight in the winter. Water should be uncomfortably cold but you are able to stay in safely. Do 11 minutes per week of this and 52 minutes of sauna. Not one after the other but just as a sum for the week. This will ramp up your metabolism by creating more brown fat and will make your body an efficient furnace. If you do decide to try this know that the benefits will be more that physical and physiological. there are mental benefits as well. Let us know how it goes if you are up to it!
Don't have a current bf % # now, but it's up there, probably over 30% I would estimate.
 

mcs

Member
The ketogenic diet is not high protein, it's high(er) fat. Most need around 80 to 100gm protein per day. Calculate your total daily expenditure (search for a suitable online calculator) and you need to make up the deficit from the 320 calories, supplied by the protein, with good fats.
RMR: ~ 1500
TDEE: 2500

If I consume >1800kcals/day, I will put on both LBM and BF regardless of training.
I'm already @ 55% fats. Fats being the most calorie dense macro @ 9g/kcal, I will balloon up even more. I think the problem is that hormone output is not optimized. For example, my TSH is in the 4s despite taking thyroid replacement.

You might be right about the protein intake. My BUN is consistently elevated and my fasting glucose is always high despite being low carb. Excess protein = gluconeogenesis = higher glucose readings.
 
Drop the fat to 30 %,protein to 40% and carbs to 30%.
Carbs are not the devil,eat them after training and dinner.Veggies,Berries,sweet potato,squash,jasmine/basmati rice.
Drop the nuts,nut butter and all alcohol completely if having any if these.
Walk with a weight vest upon walking 30-45 every day.
 

BTBC0147

Member
Stats:
height: 170cm
age: 62
weight: 88kg


Main observations:
  • body recomp has been a struggle since my mid 30s.
  • weight/fat gain ramped up about 2 years ago
  • energy/calorie intake has not changed
  • training consistent 5 days/weeks resistance + cardio, but somewhat harder to work around increasing soft-tissue injuries from chronic load on elbow and shoulder tendons
  • glucose disposal has slowed; FBG has ramped up over time, although a1c has remained stable (last level 5.1).
Ok. I realize that it's 80% diet and 20% exercise to recomp (lose FAT while retaining as much lean mass as possible). But...
  • what about stubbornly elevated TSH (4-5) despite being on thyroid replacement?
  • what about if you have "fat gene" SNPs (ACE, FTO, etc) - polymorphisms that predispose me to unwanted fat.
  • what if you have below mid-range total T + low free T (not on TRT at this time)?
  • if a caloric deficit makes the most sense, what if it reduces lean mass, metabolic output, suppresses T3/thyroid function?
  • if I increase carbs for more energy to fuel workouts, I will risk going into diabetic levels with my SNPs. Last a1c was 5.1. I want to keep it there or lower. FBG is now almost always in the low 100s no matter how low carb I go.
See the conundrum I'm in?

The only positive I can say is that I'm the strongest I've ever been on lifts (~25% increase), so must've gained some lean mass, but not without adding significant adipose to the tune of about 18kg. In my case, strength is proportionate to overall weight. 1:1 ratio of body weight to lifting weight (e.g., at 77kg, I could barely curl 45kg. At 86+kg, I can curl 56kg).

Diet:
I have by default been eating a HPKD (High Protein Ketogenic Diet) - avg 2000kcals/day.
Macros @ 30-35% protein/10% carbs/50-55% fats. It's tough to get enough macros and micros with anything <2000 kcals/day for extended periods of time, especially if you train as much as I do. I eat two main meals/day.

Appetite control: hunger pangs late at night before bed.

RMR @ ~ 1500kcals.

CV health - lipids/trigs/Lp(a) - detailed in my recent post here and here.

Insulin resistance/impaired glucose disposal:
PPBG levels are intact and show good insulin response; it's the clearance after last meal that is the issue (drops and then flatlines in the low 100s). If I eat too late and.or snack, glucose metabolism freezes, thus impaired FBG. With these fasting levels, I think it will be impossible to lean out. Taking as many glucose disposal agents as possible (berberine, cinnamon, r-ALA, banaba leaf, etc.)

HRT:
Thyroid: Subclinical hypothyroidism. Taking 90mg NP-Thyroid daily; still TSH hovers >3. See my previous thyroid post for full details.

Getting on a TRT protocol has been a longstanding conundrum due to past clotting issues of unknown cause, hypertension, sleep apnea. But not doing anything has its risks also.

Total T hovers in the low to mid 400s, free and bio T is either subnormal or low normal, SHBG in the mid 40s. E2 in the low 20s, sometimes lower.
Last Total T: 484

Free T: 63.9
SHBG in mid 40s


Should I trial some enclomiphene before considering TRT?

Final Observations:
In terms of body comp, for approx. the last 10 years, I have been an exercise non-responder. This isn't to say that my workouts don't provide me with healthful benefits (i.e. lean mass retention, strength increases, cardiovascular health, stress modulation, etc.). I am talking strictly body composition.

The only time I experienced rapid fat loss was when my metabolism was unnaturally ramped up a few years back even though my calories actually increased. I couldn't believe I had a hard time keeping weight on, just the opposite of now.

CICO. Yes, it does work as a general rule, however, can certain genetic SNPs that affect fat loss make it more of a challenge?

At the end of the day, 2 things remain:


1) Hormone optimization - (growth hormone, estrogens, testosterone, insulin, thyroid)
2) Genetics - what diet is best for my genetics and will help me recomp?


SIMPLE FORMULA:
If energy intake is same or even slightly less (calories) + energy output (exercise) is same or even more + increased fat gain = genetics and hormone issues.

What else can it be?

Possible Solutions:
- bump up the IF, increase CR, OMAD, PSMF?
- cycle carbs (CKD)?
Out of all recomp diets, I like PSMF the most.


Most noticeable increase is in Android Fat.

This stands out as one of more important factors:
Android fat storage is controlled by the male reproductive hormone testosterone. Whilst higher levels of testosterone have been found to correlate well with lower central fat storage, low levels of testosterone have been found to correlate with higher levels of central fatty deposits.


Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm having a hard time believing the fat/overall weight gain is due to only to a caloric surplus.

Faulty metabolism from thyroid hormone replacement resistance or malabsorption, SIBO.

Other than thyroid and possible SIBO issues, the fact it is difficult to reverse lipid markers, hypertension, resistant recomp (lose body fat), makes me question whether this diet of ~ 55% fats, 30% protein, 15% carbs has been beneficial, neutral and deleterious.

I've been lean before, in my mid-20s. But I was able to metabolize the energy intake (kcals) more efficiently than now. So, if my energy intake is the same or even less than back then and my energy output is the same if not more now
, then what the hell else could it be but lack of hormones (GH, thyroid, testosterone, less insulin sensitive)?
I haver been on TRT for years...I have several health issues including hypothyroid. I lost 46lbs. No matter what anyone says, it will always be about cals in vs out. good lucky my man
 

mcs

Member
Drop the fat to 30 %,protein to 40% and carbs to 30%.
Carbs are not the devil,eat them after training and dinner.Veggies,Berries,sweet potato,squash,jasmine/basmati rice.
Drop the nuts,nut butter and all alcohol completely if having any if these.
Walk with a weight vest upon walking 30-45 every day.
Weight vest is a good idea and may help on the walks.

Neither cardio or resistance training seems to have much of an effect any longer like it did in my 20s-30s. Energy intake as I went into depth on in my initial post has been about the same and all I look is "puffy" as I've been told. I've got a couple nasty genes that make things worse when on a strict keto type diet, especially high in sat fats and that make it more difficult for me to respond to dieting (calorie restriction). Which brings me to frustration, thinking the only way is via chemical intervention (more aggressive HRT, TRT, peptides, GH, etc.). I've been singing this same tune now for over 10 years and nothing has changed. The ONLY time I was able to lean out in those last 10 years was when I was in sympathetic overdrive due to some adverse effects from cold turkeying a medication where my epinephrine/norepinephrine/cortisol went through the roof, but I felt awful and could barely function. Helluva of way to lean out, but I was over 30lbs lighter than now. I would be eating the same amount of cals as now but instead of gaining fat, I was burning it off. Increasing RMR is the key. Most exercise, unless higher intensity/volume/resistance in which I risk further injury to my joints/tendons is just not worth it and too short of a blip to have much effect. Unelss one is chemically-enhanced, just one keto type meal's calories will exceed an hour's worth of training.
 
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Jasminegram

New Member
I am against ketodiet as I know what it is. Blood glucose reserves are used up after about 12 hours, and glycogen reserves within the next 24-48 hours. When there are carbs in the blood your liver stores fat from them and it feeds you in the morning. If there are no carbohydrates, your liver cannot replenish the supply. When the body stops getting enough carbohydrates, it adapts: it starts using glycogen and available amino acids, and it mobilizes the fatty acid (fat) reserve, i.e. it starts burning them in the process of oxidation and energy production. But even with the diet from medicalweightlosslehighvalley.com I was getting extra vitamins. When the process of fatty acid oxidation goes with a high enough intensity, the liver produces ketone bodies. Entering ketosis can go as far as ketoacidosis.
 
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Systemlord

Member
The only time I experienced rapid fat loss was when my metabolism was unnaturally ramped up a few years back even though my calories actually increased. I couldn't believe I had a hard time keeping weight on, just the opposite of now.
I was 35% body fat and a diabetic when I started TRT, Total T was 91 and Free T below the normal ranges and my Total T 4 hours after my Jetanzo capsule (oral TRT) is 715 ng/dL and peak levels at 2 hours is around 1000 ng/ dL.

The calcuated Free T using the Tru T calculator puts my Free T @ 24.18 ng/dL at 4 hours. My SHBG 15 giving me a Free T percentage of 2.88% at 4 hours.

Your Free T percentage is 1.28% and 11.91 ng/dL. The 10-12 ng/dL range is typically where men start to compain of symptoms on these forums in my experience.

If you somehow found a way to reduce your SHBG by more than half, Total T would now be closer to 300 and Free T would come go up a little and even then your numbers would still be subpar.

I'm naturally a very skinny tall guy with some good muscle tone and now I'm droping weight a little too easily. I've lost 7 pounds in 10 days eating healthy with only moderate cardio excersise. In the last month I've gone from 235 -> 218 lbs.

I can only imagine how much weight I could lose if I went to the gym 3-4 days a week, but the gym is the most unsafe place to go these days and most unsanitary.
 
Last edited:

Systemlord

Member
Getting on a TRT protocol has been a longstanding conundrum due to past clotting issues of unknown cause, hypertension, sleep apnea. But not doing anything has its risks also.
You have to dig deeper in these areas. Also TRT doesn't "cause" clotting, usually and underlining condition exists where TRT contributes to clotting.

Find a reason for past clotting issues.
 

mcs

Member
I was 35% body fat and a diabetic when I started TRT, Total T was 91 and Free T below the normal ranges and my Total T 4 hours after my Jetanzo capsule (oral TRT) is 715 ng/dL and peak levels at 2 hours is around 1000 ng/ dL.

The calcuated Free T using the Tru T calculator puts my Free T @ 24.18 ng/dL at 4 hours. My SHBG 15 giving me a Free T percentage of 2.88% at 4 hours.

Your Free T percentage is 1.28% and 11.91 ng/dL. The 10-12 ng/dL range is typically where men start to compain of symptoms on these forums in my experience.

If you somehow found a way to reduce your SHBG by more than half, Total T would now be closer to 300 and Free T would come go up a little and even then your numbers would still be subpar.

I'm naturally a very skinny tall guy with some good muscle tone and now I'm droping weight a little too easily. I've lost 7 pounds in 10 days eating healthy with only moderate cardio excersise. In the last month I've gone from 235 -> 218 lbs.

I can only imagine how much weight I could lose if I went to the gym 3-4 days a week, but the gym is the most unsafe place to go these days and most unsanitary.
Some questions:
1) Has the TRT restored your insulin sensitivity and glucose metabolism?
2) Has TRT helped in reducing your bodyfat?
3) Why oral and not injectable?
4) Where are you getting those calculations for me? The TruT calculator doesn't reflect those numbers.
 

xcpatr922

Active Member
Stats:
height: 170cm
age: 62
weight: 88kg


Main observations:
  • body recomp has been a struggle since my mid 30s.
  • weight/fat gain ramped up about 2 years ago
  • energy/calorie intake has not changed
  • training consistent 5 days/weeks resistance + cardio, but somewhat harder to work around increasing soft-tissue injuries from chronic load on elbow and shoulder tendons
  • glucose disposal has slowed; FBG has ramped up over time, although a1c has remained stable (last level 5.1).
Ok. I realize that it's 80% diet and 20% exercise to recomp (lose FAT while retaining as much lean mass as possible). But...
  • what about stubbornly elevated TSH (4-5) despite being on thyroid replacement?
  • what about if you have "fat gene" SNPs (ACE, FTO, etc) - polymorphisms that predispose me to unwanted fat.
  • what if you have below mid-range total T + low free T (not on TRT at this time)?
  • if a caloric deficit makes the most sense, what if it reduces lean mass, metabolic output, suppresses T3/thyroid function?
  • if I increase carbs for more energy to fuel workouts, I will risk going into diabetic levels with my SNPs. Last a1c was 5.1. I want to keep it there or lower. FBG is now almost always in the low 100s no matter how low carb I go.
See the conundrum I'm in?

The only positive I can say is that I'm the strongest I've ever been on lifts (~25% increase), so must've gained some lean mass, but not without adding significant adipose to the tune of about 18kg. In my case, strength is proportionate to overall weight. 1:1 ratio of body weight to lifting weight (e.g., at 77kg, I could barely curl 45kg. At 86+kg, I can curl 56kg).

Diet:
I have by default been eating a HPKD (High Protein Ketogenic Diet) - avg 2000kcals/day.
Macros @ 30-35% protein/10% carbs/50-55% fats. It's tough to get enough macros and micros with anything <2000 kcals/day for extended periods of time, especially if you train as much as I do. I eat two main meals/day.

Appetite control: hunger pangs late at night before bed.

RMR @ ~ 1500kcals.

CV health - lipids/trigs/Lp(a) - detailed in my recent post here and here.

Insulin resistance/impaired glucose disposal:
PPBG levels are intact and show good insulin response; it's the clearance after last meal that is the issue (drops and then flatlines in the low 100s). If I eat too late and.or snack, glucose metabolism freezes, thus impaired FBG. With these fasting levels, I think it will be impossible to lean out. Taking as many glucose disposal agents as possible (berberine, cinnamon, r-ALA, banaba leaf, etc.)

HRT:
Thyroid: Subclinical hypothyroidism. Taking 90mg NP-Thyroid daily; still TSH hovers >3. See my previous thyroid post for full details.

Getting on a TRT protocol has been a longstanding conundrum due to past clotting issues of unknown cause, hypertension, sleep apnea. But not doing anything has its risks also.

Total T hovers in the low to mid 400s, free and bio T is either subnormal or low normal, SHBG in the mid 40s. E2 in the low 20s, sometimes lower.
Last Total T: 484

Free T: 63.9
SHBG in mid 40s


Should I trial some enclomiphene before considering TRT?

Final Observations:
In terms of body comp, for approx. the last 10 years, I have been an exercise non-responder. This isn't to say that my workouts don't provide me with healthful benefits (i.e. lean mass retention, strength increases, cardiovascular health, stress modulation, etc.). I am talking strictly body composition.

The only time I experienced rapid fat loss was when my metabolism was unnaturally ramped up a few years back even though my calories actually increased. I couldn't believe I had a hard time keeping weight on, just the opposite of now.

CICO. Yes, it does work as a general rule, however, can certain genetic SNPs that affect fat loss make it more of a challenge?

At the end of the day, 2 things remain:


1) Hormone optimization - (growth hormone, estrogens, testosterone, insulin, thyroid)
2) Genetics - what diet is best for my genetics and will help me recomp?


SIMPLE FORMULA:
If energy intake is same or even slightly less (calories) + energy output (exercise) is same or even more + increased fat gain = genetics and hormone issues.

What else can it be?

Possible Solutions:
- bump up the IF, increase CR, OMAD, PSMF?
- cycle carbs (CKD)?
Out of all recomp diets, I like PSMF the most.


Most noticeable increase is in Android Fat.

This stands out as one of more important factors:
Android fat storage is controlled by the male reproductive hormone testosterone. Whilst higher levels of testosterone have been found to correlate well with lower central fat storage, low levels of testosterone have been found to correlate with higher levels of central fatty deposits.


Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm having a hard time believing the fat/overall weight gain is due to only to a caloric surplus.

Faulty metabolism from thyroid hormone replacement resistance or malabsorption, SIBO.

Other than thyroid and possible SIBO issues, the fact it is difficult to reverse lipid markers, hypertension, resistant recomp (lose body fat), makes me question whether this diet of ~ 55% fats, 30% protein, 15% carbs has been beneficial, neutral and deleterious.

I've been lean before, in my mid-20s. But I was able to metabolize the energy intake (kcals) more efficiently than now. So, if my energy intake is the same or even less than back then and my energy output is the same if not more now
, then what the hell else could it be but lack of hormones (GH, thyroid, testosterone, less insulin sensitive)?

I have lost 80lbs with just keto/low carb non TRT.
I have been losing double digit body fat percentage also.

My input is everybody is different, don't read the book but follow what works for you only.... you need to have exact weapon to exactly know what works and what's not working.

1. You need to be consistent with your research/experiment for 3-4 weeks, after that measure body fat with DEXA scan
2. Measure blood sugar consistently by using CGM.

Once you did experiment which activity that works, just stick with that.

I don't advise folks to do keto or ,etc because keto only works for endomorph body type or if one has carb sensitivity issue.

Also one folk above saying carb is not an issue, sorry to say, for some of us CARB is big issue. If I eat slight rice I can gain few lbs just like that but, yam is okay. The other thing, like calorie in and calorie out, still make sense to me.

Swimming in cold water or bathing with cold water could work also because your body will crash the blood sugar.

For me the very fast way of losing weight is HIIT in the morning while in fasting state. But TRT result is awesome, it could create muscle even without much training LOL :)
 

mcs

Member
You have to dig deeper in these areas. Also TRT doesn't "cause" clotting, usually and underlining condition exists where TRT contributes to clotting.

Find a reason for past clotting issues.
I can only theorize what the culprits might be since it's truly idiopathic (no known cause and I've run every genetic clotting test available). Certainly not from TRT since I was not on it when it happened.
 

mcs

Member
I have lost 80lbs with just keto/low carb non TRT.
I have been losing double digit body fat percentage also.

My input is everybody is different, don't read the book but follow what works for you only.... you need to have exact weapon to exactly know what works and what's not working.

1. You need to be consistent with your research/experiment for 3-4 weeks, after that measure body fat with DEXA scan
2. Measure blood sugar consistently by using CGM.

Once you did experiment which activity that works, just stick with that.

I don't advise folks to do keto or ,etc because keto only works for endomorph body type or if one has carb sensitivity issue.

Also one folk above saying carb is not an issue, sorry to say, for some of us CARB is big issue. If I eat slight rice I can gain few lbs just like that but, yam is okay. The other thing, like calorie in and calorie out, still make sense to me.

Swimming in cold water or bathing with cold water could work also because your body will crash the blood sugar.

For me the very fast way of losing weight is HIIT in the morning while in fasting state. But TRT result is awesome, it could create muscle even without much training LOL :)
My a1c is 5.1, HOMA-IR ~ 1.0 - but I eat LCHF but not keto. Body type is a combination of all 3 types depending on which body part.
 

Systemlord

Member
Has the TRT restored your insulin sensitivity and glucose metabolism?
Yes, glucose 2 hours after breakfast was 110 and fasting 96. However vitamin D deficiency is causing intermittent problems with glucose control which is a temporary situation.

Has TRT helped in reducing your bodyfat?

Yes, but the body fat started melting off recently as I've lowered my A1C below 7% which is where things have spead up the process of weight loss.

Why oral and not injectable?
I was on injections, daily, EOD, twice weekly and weekly and only started responding on the former two, but the side effects forced my to stop.

The side effects were dangerously low blood pressure after falling asleep, waking causes the symptoms to subside very quickly. I got burning in skin and red skin during the day time, all of these symptoms has something to do with iron status because these symptoms aren't present when on the verge of iron deficiency or low iron.

Injections was never going to work for me and I believe it has something to do with the half-life.

Maybe T- propionate would have worked.

Jatenzo half-life is very short and believe this is key to why it works without side effects.

Where are you getting those calculations for me?
My bad I mistakenly used the other calculator that is unreliable.
 

xcpatr922

Active Member
I can only theorize what the culprits might be since it's truly idiopathic (no known cause and I've run every genetic clotting test available). Certainly not from TRT since I was not on it when it happened.

Without angiogram surgery, we will never know. The most likely culprit for clotting is atherosclerosis and low-level inflammation. Because of the astereroclorosis, there's a segmental slow blood flow in my body that may cause clotting/MI risk/etc so I've few stents.

Basically you need to go to advanced cardiologist. If you have risk for clotting doc may prescribed you stronger anti-platelet/anti-coag agent. Visit the cardiologist that shows the video of your procedure to you.
 
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