Will it always be a roller coaster?

[jws1300]

Sorry, SHBG level was never tested prior to TRT. I have one of THOSE doctors. Looking back I would have ordered it myself but is there a point after starting really? Peaks and troughs look ok to you?

 

[jws1300]

Glad to hear of the improvement. It is a journey to get this thing dialed in. Not a bad thing. I appreciate the go slow mentality, i have adopted that as well.
I also started at 200mg every two weeks while with my pcp, who is a great dr, just not in this area. I did not experience the ups and downs you did. But hct went thru the roof. I swithc to defy and we changed things. Went to evey other day, things improved, hct settled a bit. Now i just started every day about a week ago. Maybe it stablizes hct more and brings up free t.. if not, what i was doing worked so i can easily drop back. So when i say journey that is what i mean.
For m ter was a positive life changer, enough to put up with a few bumps along the way. Stay the course

Go slow is what i'm doing. I been dealing with this BS shitty feeling for 2 years and i'm impatient but i'm also aware that the correct protocol will mean everything. How much did switching to EOD lower your HCT?

 

[Jiu Jitsu Dude]

Jws: I was having this mid day crash/dip of anxiety and depression for 2 years. Thought my zoloft was pooping out (50mg) tried so many things before I figured out it was low T. The clomid was terrible for me and took nearly 2 months to clear my system (long half life). The good news is that I don't have the mid day crash (moderate crash but still sucked) anymore . My new self imposed protocol with the help of this forum seems to be going in the right direction. I still have a little anxiousness here and there but I need to let this run for at least 5 weeks before my body stabilizes. My goal is to simply rid myself of the mid day emotional drop with the least amount of T required. I don't want to take HCG or AI's. Just a moderate dose of T cyp that does the job. Oddly enough it seems as if my low dose zoloft is working better as my T levels have been rising. I'll probably be on this for life so I'm not in a hurry. I want a slow systematic approach that I can carefully analyze and adjust as necessary with the help of others and a good Doctor. I have paid for a consult with Dr Saya when I get back in the country (vacation). Good luck and God Bless you and all the other guys in this process.

 

[jws1300]

Jws: I was having this mid day crash/dip of anxiety and depression for 2 years. Thought my zoloft was pooping out (50mg) tried so many things before I figured out it was low T. The clomid was terrible for me and took nearly 2 months to clear my system (long half life). The good news is that I don't have the mid day crash (moderate crash but still sucked) anymore . My new self imposed protocol with the help of this forum seems to be going in the right direction. I still have a little anxiousness here and there but I need to let this run for at least 5 weeks before my body stabilizes. My goal is to simply rid myself of the mid day emotional drop with the least amount of T required. I don't want to take HCG or AI's. Just a moderate dose of T cyp that does the job. Oddly enough it seems as if my low dose zoloft is working better as my T levels have been rising. I'll probably be on this for life so I'm not in a hurry. I want a slow systematic approach that I can carefully analyze and adjust as necessary with the help of others and a good Doctor. I have paid for a consult with Dr Saya when I get back in the country (vacation). Good luck and God Bless you and all the other guys in this process.

Around 2-3pm I would feel like going home and taking a nap, it was a horrible feeling of despair and fatigue. I dont have that now 3 weeks into TRT. I was also on lexapro and quit it in may. I think i'm in the right direction as well as the anxiety the last few days has been wayyyy less then prior to TRT. Maybe that 3rd week I keep reading on is true? Glad its working for you, sounds like we are in about the same boat!

 

[KenLowT]

The roller coaster continues for me. I upped my dosage to 140mg per week after my first consult with Defy on Thursday. My AI does not come until Thursday, however I upped it any way and now I'm feeling the effects of too much E2. This is how I felt when I first started TRT in June. Because of my high BF% and SHBG in the middle 20's I convert a lot of my testosterone to estrogen. When I started out at 150 mg per week I felt miserable. I was moody, irritable, and sometimes I would get depressed. No anxiety, but just overall not a happy camper. I dropped down to 100mg, went through the instability of dropping so much so fast, but came out of it better. However, my libido still sucks so I know my FT% is too low and my estrogen is still to high at 39. I wanted to start my new protocol fast so I started without waiting for my reinforcements and now I'm paying for it.

I'm now starting to think that the reason TRT has not worked for me with HCG monotherapy or TRT is because I convert too much testosterone to estrogen. Luckily those medicines will come soon so I just have to deal with this sucky, moody week until then.

 

[mooseman109]

Go slow is what i'm doing. I been dealing with this BS shitty feeling for 2 years and i'm impatient but i'm also aware that the correct protocol will mean everything. How much did switching to EOD lower your HCT?

It has kept me 51-52 with 3-4 months between donations. Previously it was 54-55

 

[Jiu Jitsu Dude]

Hi guys! I'm feeling so much better. The mid day drop of depression and anxiety is gone! Thank God for this treatment and forum. My sex drive and performance is great. My sleep is better and more refreshed upon waking. My energy is higher and lasting throughout the day. I have methodically tracked this issue for 3 years and nothing has given me these results other than TRT and switching from Clomid (terrible for me), then TRT 200mg every 2 weeks (terrible, almost quit TRT).

Then through prayer and guidance here I took peoples advice and against my doctors stern advice and changed my protocol to 100mg once per week (he doesn't know) and the result was a drastic improvement!!! I agree with you guys that the 200mg upfront was way too much and was making me miserable.

Thank you all for the advice to a newbie!

 

[MarkM]

Jiu Jitsu,

That is fantastic news! What a great inspiration for others who are struggling with TRT.

Thank you for sharing and updating us.

Mark

 

[Jiu Jitsu Dude]

Ok Guys an update:

On 9-10-18 I switched to every 3.5 days 50mg cyp shot. I inject Monday morning and TH afternoon (100mg per week total still). seems like high E2 is following me (chasing me lol). I had a couple good weeks with my 100mg per week protocol then the 3rd week was not good (anxiety and anger waves). So let's get back to the last week of every 3.5 days: Monday shot day was very emotional anxiety blah blah blah, Tuesday was good, Wednesday good, Thursday (shot day) was great, Friday was good, Saturday good until 5pm the anxiety waves all night - sucked, Sunday good except late pm anxiety started then I went to sleep so it was ok. Monday woke totally refreshed and great mood, took shot then 2 hours later anger flaring up...

Maybe it will pass? I'm going to get a total T/Free and E2 sensitive test tomorrow. Any bets that I have high E2? Talked to Jesse at Defy and he suggests that I wait another 3 weeks for this protocol to settle then he will schedule my appointment. I will have full labs at that time for Dr. Saya to review. What do you guys think? Will this every 3.5 days settle my E2 better after a few more weeks. Every day is not bad but when the anger and anxiety hits it is so unlike me....

 

[Systemlord]

Your levels are fluctuating day to day and this is to be expected after any change to dosage or when starting a new protocol. You have to wait 6 weeks before levels stabilize before judging this protocol.

 

[MarkM]

Hi Tim, I am sorry you are still on that roller coaster but not really surprised. These hormones get completed and sometimes that alone gives us anxiety because most of us want immediate success. On top of that you have to fight a protocol you were placed on that wasn't in your best interest.

When you were on the 200 mg dose once weekly your E2 was probably spiking extremely high. Even though you are now off that huge dose you still have some of that huge dose half life in your system. It is likely you have high E2 that will come down but the reduction in E2 lags behinds the reduces testosterone dose of 50 mg twice a week.

I think I remember that you were taking DIM. That won't help a great deal with the E2 but it does seem to help some a little bit. Others have success with Calcium D-Glucarate and say it is a little stronger than the DIM, and others take both.

If I recall, you never had your Estradiol Sensitive tested, is that correct? It will come down but might be another week or 10 days. It is going to take a little bit to get dialed in. It is likely that once the E2 levels out and you see where it is in a few weeks all will be good. You may find out that your T is a little too low and might need to to bump your dose just a hair. But that is down the road.

I think you are going to be fine before you know it.

 

[Jiu Jitsu Dude]

Your levels are fluctuating day to day and this is to be expected after any change to dosage or when starting a new protocol. You have to wait 6 weeks before levels stabilize before judging this protocol.

Thanks, This is so new to me.

 

[Jiu Jitsu Dude]

Hi Tim, I am sorry you are still on that roller coaster but not really surprised. These hormones get completed and sometimes that alone gives us anxiety because most of us want immediate success. On top of that you have to fight a protocol you were placed on that wasn't in your best interest.

When you were on the 200 mg dose once weekly your E2 was probably spiking extremely high. Even though you are now off that huge dose you still have some of that huge dose half life in your system. It is likely you have high E2 that will come down but the reduction in E2 lags behinds the reduces testosterone dose of 50 mg twice a week.

I think I remember that you were taking DIM. That won't help a great deal with the E2 but it does seem to help some a little bit. Others have success with Calcium D-Glucarate and say it is a little stronger than the DIM, and others take both.

If I recall, you never had your Estradiol Sensitive tested, is that correct? It will come down but might be another week or 10 days. It is going to take a little bit to get dialed in. It is likely that once the E2 levels out and you see where it is in a few weeks all will be good. You may find out that your T is a little too low and might need to to bump your dose just a hair. But that is down the road.

I think you are going to be fine before you know it.

Thanks Mark! I really appreciate guys like you, System lord etc. that have gone through the roller coaster to get established with a proper protocol. It really does ease my mind knowing that other strangers care enough about me and other newbies to give us advice and encourage us through this difficult but necessary process. Funny thing is that after 2pm I started to feel much better. I'm using a daily log to be more exact on my symptoms. I don't want to overreact when I'm feeling bad. Sometimes our mind plays games telling us that this whole thing is bad when in actuality it may be just a day here and there...Thanks again

 

[MarkM]

You're welcome! Most of us have been through our struggles and only want to help others get through theirs.

 

[Jiu Jitsu Dude]

Hi Guys,

I'm in my 4th week protocol change of 50mg (2x) E3.5 days of T cyp. Overall It appears that my high E2 symptoms are coming down drastically. My Libido is now high. Almost too high lol. I'm driving my wife a little crazy but we're having fun. My energy is up fairly consistently. My mood is more tense than the normal happy serotonin feeling I miss (prior to low T 2 years ago). No depression or significant anxiety (slight still) since this new change. Hopefully it keeps going in that direction. Slight headache behind eyes/above after shot lasting 24 hrs. Still brain fog. Anger after shot is almost non-existent now. Kinda feel better the day of but before my next shot...

Any thoughts? I want to be very pragmatic and do this right.

Questions:

1) Is it still to early to evaluate this new protocol at the 4 week mark?

2) When should I draw full lab work to make the most of it? 6 weeks? 8 weeks?

Ps:

Using 28ga x 1/2" insulin needles per @MarkM. This has been great! Unlike my 22ga x 1.5" harpoon my doc had me using. I draw and inject with the same needle. Awesome.

On 9-18-18 I did 2 tests from Discounted labs because I was curious. I did them exactly 24hrs after my injection of 50mg. I was curious about my E2. It took almost 3 weeks to get the results but here's what it was:

Total T = 705 (264-916 range)
Free T= 10.8 (range 7.2-24)
Estradiol sensitive = 21.0 (8-35 range) Not so sure about the accuracy of this E2 test due to recent breakdown of machine at labcorp and time frame to receive back??

I know the tests were way to early I plan on doing full tests in the next few weeks...

 

[Systemlord]

It's too early to draw labs preferably beyond 6 weeks, my estrogen seems to become a problem after 6 weeks well after a stable state is reached. You need to get Free T between 3/4th of the ranges to high normal.

You have 2 more weeks till you reach a stable state making these labs pretty much useless.

 

[Jiu Jitsu Dude]

It's too early to draw labs preferably beyond 6 weeks, my estrogen seems to become a problem after 6 weeks well after a stable state is reached. You need to get Free T between 3/4th of the ranges to high normal.

You have 2 more weeks till you reach a stable state making these labs pretty much useless.

Ok I'll wait until week 7 for full labs. Hopefully by then my Free T will bump up toward the 3/4 range. Thanks.

 

[blackebob]

I had a quack that made me wait 3 months for labs, 6 weeks is easy, be patient. You also need to test on your trough, not just the next day.

 

[Jiu Jitsu Dude]

I had a quack that made me wait 3 months for labs, 6 weeks is easy, be patient. You also need to test on your trough, not just the next day.

Thanks. It will probably have been that long by the time I have my full labs done again. been on trt since 7-23-18. But doc had me on 200mg E2w's. So after joining this site I had to change my protocol because it sucked...lol

 

[blackebob]

I have been on it for three years, I was on Andro gel for a year and everything was 5x5, and then I was refered to an internist who was going to fix me with clomid. He jacked me up and I have been back tracking since. Your in good hands here, listen to them.