Why do some men need supraphysiological doses of testosterone to achieve normal levels

[FunkOdyssey]

So I take it your sleep eventually normalized at the higher doses?

Yes it did.

 

[Gianluca]

I didn't ask if you have ruled out fast absorption. To do this properly you need several samples of serum testosterone during the day to estimate area-under-the-curve. But it might suffice to see what your testosterone level is two to fours hours post-injection. If it is extremely high then you might suspect it's more about absorption than metabolism.

I have not, thanks for bringing this up.

Since injecting everyday, I generally get the blood draw about 2hrs post injection, but sometime I believe I went prior injection, and levels come back about the same.

However, I have gone in the past in the late afternoon, and TT seems to come back higher probably about150/200ng/dl more on ED protocol. My last TT result in April was 765ng/dl confirming the extra 200ng/dl or so. This intramuscularly.

I remember in the past that every time after increasing the dose, or a time where I switched from subQ to IM, I would feel the change from day 1. Let's say I would inject in the am, by the late afternoon I could already feel the more testosterone, or perhaps the metabolites. This on a 2 or 3 injection protocol IM.

All of this makes me think I should try again subQ, since to my understanding there is a more gradual release of Test into the blood this way.

 

[MarcoFL]

100mg split daily keeps me over 1000TT and at the top of FT for me at 62. My wife 61 in nice shape only for walking is on 4-5mg per week split in two doses is quite high and has a HUGE libido from it. We really just keep an eye on hematocrit and how we feel. We both drink probably 4 plus liters a day of spring water so never a hematocrit issue with high T levels. We both have A1c of 5.1 and very happy with that.

 

[Gianluca]

100mg split daily keeps me over 1000TT and at the top of FT for me at 62

You are lucky.

Are you injecting SubQ or IM? If subQ, what injection site(s) do you use?

 

[MarcoFL]

You are lucky.

Are you injecting SubQ or IM? If subQ, what injection site(s) do you use?

shallow IM with a 29g insulin syringe for my wife and myself. I think Testosterone has really helped keep metabolic house in order as long as diet is fairly clean. We eat out probably all but 30 nights a year but try to stick to protein and not a lot of starch.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

shallow IM with a 29g insulin syringe for my wife and myself. I think Testosterone has really helped keep metabolic house in order as long as diet is fairly clean. We eat out probably all but 30 nights a year but try to stick to protein and not a lot of starch.

The seed oils your restaurant meals are cooked in are still doing damage even if things look good on the surface. Try a month of home cooked meals, then a month eating out, testing hs-CRP, oxidized LDL, and myeloperoxidase at the end of each month to assess the CVD risks of each lifestyle pattern.

 

[MarcoFL]

most places we are at are olive oil-butter or duck fat except for most French fries....which I try to not eat. I hear you but we are over 60 and most people we know-friends socialize eating-drinking wine out. My CRP is not bad and my calcium cardiac score is still zero.

 

[sh1973]

I am the complete other end of that Spectrum lol. I do once weekly shots of 60mg and on day seven I’m still at 750ng. I’ve been at this dose for years and feel great. I normally have SHBG levels in a 50–70 range. I don’t even measure free testosterone anymore or any other labs other than CBC and CMP. Once a year I will do PSA but for the most part, I have been on auto pilot for years now.

 

[Willyt]

100mg split daily keeps me over 1000TT and at the top of FT for me at 62. My wife 61 in nice shape only for walking is on 4-5mg per week split in two doses is quite high and has a HUGE libido from it. We really just keep an eye on hematocrit and how we feel. We both drink probably 4 plus liters a day of spring water so never a hematocrit issue with high T levels. We both have A1c of 5.1 and very happy with that.

Apologies for getting off thread topic, but can you provide more details on wife's protocol? Sounds like 2-2.5 mg E3.5 days shallow IM, correct? What ester is she using?

 

[Gianluca]

I am the complete other end of that Spectrum lol. I do once weekly shots of 60mg and on day seven I’m still at 750ng. I’ve been at this dose for years and feel great. I normally have SHBG levels in a 50–70 range. I don’t even measure free testosterone anymore or any other labs other than CBC and CMP. Once a year I will do PSA but for the most part, I have been on auto pilot for years now.

Lucky!

 

[MarcoFL]

Apologies for getting off thread topic, but can you provide more details on wife's protocol? Sounds like 2-2.5 mg E3.5 days shallow IM, correct? What ester is she using?

Shallow IM yes about 2.5 2X per week cypionate in grape seed oil. Way better control than creams.

 

[Forty2]

The seed oils your restaurant meals are cooked in are still doing damage even if things look good on the surface. Try a month of home cooked meals, then a month eating out, testing hs-CRP, oxidized LDL, and myeloperoxidase at the end of each month to assess the CVD risks of each lifestyle pattern.

Have you ever tested your hs-CRP eating a diet high in seed oils and compared it to a diet low in seed oils?
I did that experiment last year for 2 weeks.
My hs-CRP was the same on both diets. Maybe 2 weeks wasn't long enough.
My current experiment is a comparison between a very high sugar/low fat diet and a low sugar/moderate fat diet.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Have you ever tested your hs-CRP eating a diet high in seed oils and compared it to a diet low in seed oils?
I did that experiment last year for 2 weeks.
My hs-CRP was the same on both diets. Maybe 2 weeks wasn't long enough.
My current experiment is a comparison between a very high sugar/low fat diet and a low sugar/moderate fat diet.

I wouldn't run this experiment personally because I know the seed oil diet causes obvious problems for me. Oxidized LDL might be more sensitive as a marker for this. My most recent hs-CRP is 0.27 mg/L and oxidized LDL is 30 ng/mL on carnivore diet.

 

[Forty2]

I wouldn't run this experiment personally because I know the seed oil diet causes obvious problems for me. Oxidized LDL might be more sensitive as a marker for this. My most recent hs-CRP is 0.27 mg/L and oxidized LDL is 30 ng/mL on carnivore diet.

What problems have you noticed from a high seed oil diet?
Next time I will try to get oxidised LDL tested.
Are there any tests you would suggest I have on the high sugar diet apart from hs-CRP?

 

[MarcoFL]

Not sure if I need to stop given off subject but I have been micro dosing 1mg terzepitide per week and 1000mg of Metformin daily now my A1c is 4.9 and less overall puffiness. on the seed oils we live on a barrier island in south Florida and the crowd here is all over no seed oil in dining places. The French chefs have always used butter and animal fats even in the French fries. Salad dressings are all olive oil. Main issue if not making the mayo most will have canola....at home we use one with olive oil. Sorry for messing up the thread.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

What problems have you noticed from a high seed oil diet?

Skin becomes inflamed, feels irritated to the touch and breaks out with acne.

Are there any tests you would suggest I have on the high sugar diet apart from hs-CRP?

Fasting glucose, fasting insulin, HbA1c, lipid panel (watch triglyceride:HDL ratio), uric acid (driven up by fructose, both a marker for and cause of metabolic dysfunction), and ALT / AST / GGT (screen for liver harm by fructose). Don't forget oxidized LDL as a measure of oxidative stress and causative agent of atherosclerosis (native LDL is inert).

 

[Forty2]

Skin becomes inflamed, feels irritated to the touch and breaks out with acne.


Fasting glucose, fasting insulin, HbA1c, lipid panel (watch triglyceride:HDL ratio), uric acid (driven up by fructose, both a marker for and cause of metabolic dysfunction), and ALT / AST / GGT (screen for liver harm by fructose). Don't forget oxidized LDL as a measure of oxidative stress and causative agent of atherosclerosis (native LDL is inert).

Thanks!

 

[Mastodont]

I am the complete other end of that Spectrum lol. I do once weekly shots of 60mg and on day seven I’m still at 750ng. I’ve been at this dose for years and feel great. I normally have SHBG levels in a 50–70 range. I don’t even measure free testosterone anymore or any other labs other than CBC and CMP. Once a year I will do PSA but for the most part, I have been on auto pilot for years now.

Hey i remember you legend, remind me if it was subq or IM? HCG was never in the picture if i remember correctly.

 

[sh1973]

Hey i remember you legend, remind me if it was subq or IM? HCG was never in the picture if i remember correctly.

Yes nothing but cypionate IM in delts with 5/8 25g syringes.