What to expect from Armour thyroid meds?

[DragonBits]

My prescription is 60 mgs, 1 grain.

Cutting it in half, I took 30 mg, ½ grain, Armour thyroid at 7:00 AM.

It gave me a buzz a little like a lot of caffeine, then about 7:00 PM I got sleepy, had a big headache. I assume this mean all the T3 had been eliminated. I thought ½ grain was too much.
The next day I still had a mild headache, I took a tiny amount and it seem to make the headache go away. I didn’t take any for a couple of days after that.

A few days later, I cut the pill into quarters, so that is about ¼ grain, then took ¼ at 7:00 and ¼ at 12:000 noon, which felt better.

Before treatment:
T4 6.4 ug/dL
FT4 1.06 ng/dl
TSH 2.0
Rt3 16.4 ng/dL
FT3 2.7 pg/mL

For a couple of days now, the only thing that feels different is a little tightness in my head, I can’t really tell if I have more energy, it’s not obvious. Maybe my BP and heart rate are up a bit, not a lot.

I think that since I don’t seem to have a problem converting T4 to FT3, I might do better on Levothyroxine which is T4 only. Not convinced, just researching at this time.

I am not sure what taking this should do for me and how soon? What effects have others felt?

 

[Vince]

I don't think that small amount of armor would do anything especially with so high of reverse T3. Why are you using only 30 mg twice a day.

 

[DragonBits]

I don't think that small amount of armor would do anything especially with so high of reverse T3. Why are you using only 30 mg twice a day.

It's actually 15 mg twice a day, the doctor ordered that protocol, though he said 30 mg in the morning and I changed it to 15 mg twice a day.

I didn't like the effect the initial 30 mgs had on me, so I split it up. Also after ~11-12 hours I felt like I crashed and got a headache, I believe it was the extra T3 going away.

The Doc did say I could double the dose every 2 weeks up to 120 mgs a day.

I believe it's likely I have had these same levels for the last 20 years, so how I feel now is normal to me. If Armour helps, what am I looking for as a change?

 

[Vince]

The way to know proper dosing is by labs and make adjustment from them. Here's my thread on my thyroid labs and dosing. I still have a lot more work to do.

can cytomel by itself be used to treat hypothyroidism​

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...mel-by-itself-be-used-to-treat-hypothyroidism

 

[DragonBits]

Vince, according the the ratio theory of FT3/rT3, your ratio would be 14.285 and my untreated ratio would be 16.46.

The theory states that the ratio should be over 20 to be associated with good health.

My symptoms were pretty mild and could easily be ignored. Sometimes I have a sort of brain fog, it seemed to me to more related to glucose, which was just a guess not a measurement. Guess because if I don't eat till 2PM, only some protein powder and then do an hour of cardio at noon time, I sometimes feel like my brain isn't functioning on all cylinders. Also, I tend to react like I want to sleep if I eat a high carb typical pancake breakfast. I was thinking it might be better to eat a balanced breakfast, but once I consume 19-20 grams of protein powder with coffee, i don't feel hungry for several hours. This doesn't seem to help at all losing weight, I just eat more later in the day


I am a little surprised your FT3 lab didn't change all that much, TSH changed a lot, but your FT3 didn't change by much, and you don't know your untreated RT3 so we can't tell if that changed.

 

[Vince Carter]

Remind me....had you run Ferritin/Iron/etc etc prior to starting and what'd any one have to say about your RT3?

 

[DragonBits]

Remind me....had you run Ferritin/Iron/etc etc prior to starting and what'd any one have to say about your RT3?

The doctor didn't talk about my RT3, the forum did.

Here is a copy of the full iron panel I did in May 2018.

Iron and TIBC
Iron Bind.Cap.(TIBC) 357 250-450 ug/dL 01
UIBC 249 111-343 ug/dL 01
Iron 108 38-169 ug/dL 01
Iron Saturation 30 15-55 % 01

Ferritin, Serum
Ferritin, Serum 224 30-400 ng/mL 01

 

[MarkM]

The doctor didn't talk about my RT3, the forum did.

Here is a copy of the full iron panel I did in May 2018.

Iron and TIBC
Iron Bind.Cap.(TIBC) 357 250-450 ug/dL 01
UIBC 249 111-343 ug/dL 01
Iron 108 38-169 ug/dL 01
Iron Saturation 30 15-55 % 01

Ferritin, Serum
Ferritin, Serum 224 30-400 ng/mL 01

Best iron and ferritin numbers I have seen in a long time. They look good.

 

[Vince Carter]

I asked because Ferritin and Iron probs can interfere with T4>T3 conversion and FT3 getting in to the cells but you look good enough there.

 

[DragonBits]

I don't think that small amount of armor would do anything especially with so high of reverse T3. Why are you using only 30 mg twice a day.

Thought I would update this thread I started.

I settled on taking 30 mg NDT in the AM, then 15 mg at about 11:00 AM, for a total of 45 mg all day long.

As you point out, not a big dose.

However, my FT3 moved from 2.7pg/m > 4.3 pg/ml. the range is 2.0 - 4.4, so almost into hyperthyroid range.

I stopped all NDT and my FT3 returned to 2.7 pg/ml.

I have not decided if I will start again, if I do it will be with an even smaller dose. I would like FT3 to be about 3.1 which I consider optimal, not a lot higher than I am now.

 

[MarcoFL]

I take 2 grains two times per day for a total of 4 grains. Your RT3 is an issue and might need more of straight T3 in addition to more NDT. Your iron saturation needs to be over 40% from what it says on STTM website. I would recommend you look it up. You might be able to take small amount of iron getting you closer to 120 and 40% saturation.

 

[DragonBits]

I take 2 grains two times per day for a total of 4 grains. Your RT3 is an issue and might need more of straight T3 in addition to more NDT. Your iron saturation needs to be over 40% from what it says on STTM website. I would recommend you look it up. You might be able to take small amount of iron getting you closer to 120 and 40% saturation.

Well, my FT3 got to the top of the range, 4.3 ng/dl, so I am not sure why more would be better. Wouldn't more T3 just put me higher with FT3?

RT3 is kind of a strange boogeyman, Internet forums sometimes claim RT3 is an active hormone that can replace FT3 while NIH and science based studies claim that your body creates more RT3 when it has too much FT3 and RT3 is biologically inactive.

Also, thyroid medications have far reaching impacts throughout the body, one example is on blood glucose, without being clearly hypo or hyper thyroid and not having any symptoms, I am reluctant to fool around with levels just to adjust them to some level that seems more like a popular theory than a fact.

The symptoms I did have I attribute to low testosterone, raising TT seems to have taken care of that.

When I did google optimum thyroid levels + NIh, I also came up a study that was the exact opposite of sites that claim being in the upper part of the thyroid hormone range is optimal.

------------------------------------------

Greater longevity has been associated with higher TSH and lower TH levels, but mechanisms underlying TSH/TH differences and longevity remain unknown.

The Association of Reduced Thyroid Function With Longevity

I was hoping NDT would increase my metabolism and make weight loss easier, it didn't seem to make enough of a difference in that regard.

I wonder if anyone has ever done a basal metabolic rate (BMR) both before and after a few months of taking NDT or some similar synthetic hormone. Your BMR should increase. Now that would be an objective definitive result. And I wonder how much it increases?

If anyone has NIH or other research from studies that indicates RT3 actively replaces FT3 in receptor sites, meaning showhow makes your FT3 less available for use, please post it.

 

[OMI100]

May have posted this to you prior, but if not..
Go here and do some reading:
http://www.tiredthyroid.com/tired-thyroid-blog
Get here book. A wealth of good solid information..
Go here and read some of the blog post from Dr. Childs.
Start with his "thyroid beginner series" and go from there if you wish.
A wealth of information and his main points are hyperlinked to the research or studies.
BOTH sites will provided with a wealth of valid solid data that may help fill in the gaps and answer your questions.
Here is DR. Childs blog post on RT3:
Reverse T3 Treatment Guide + How to "Flush" it out of Your Body

 

[blackebob]

May have posted this to you prior, but if not..
Go here and do some reading:
http://www.tiredthyroid.com/tired-thyroid-blog
Get here book. A wealth of good solid information..
Go here and read some of the blog post from Dr. Childs.
Start with his "thyroid beginner series" and go from there if you wish.
A wealth of information and his main points are hyperlinked to the research or studies.
BOTH sites will provided with a wealth of valid solid data that may help fill in the gaps and answer your questions.
Here is DR. Childs blog post on RT3:
Reverse T3 Treatment Guide + How to "Flush" it out of Your Body

My son was recently diagnosed as hypothyroid, and I can not pick up the links you posted. Would you please check that it is not on your post.

 

[OMI100]

Missed this one.
Search for "thyroid beginner series " - Dr. Westin Childs | Thyroid & Health Supplements That Work
He also he has a Youtube channel here:
Dr. Westin Childs

 

[blackebob]

Missed this one.
Search for "thyroid beginner series " - Dr. Westin Childs | Thyroid & Health Supplements That Work
He also he has a Youtube channel here:
Dr. Westin Childs

Thank you

 

[DragonBits]

I do see recent, meaning 2017-2018, information on reverse T3.

It is reported to have an effect on the brain, but honestly I don't know what it means.

There is no credible scientific evidence that rT3 enters the nucleus of the cell at all, and the bulk of the scientific literature states clearly that rT3 does not bind to, and has no known transcriptional activity at, the thyroid receptor. It is, however, known to have potent activity in the cytoplasm as an initiator of actin polymerization in astrocytes in the brain [7]. This is mediated in a non-genomic manner by its binding to a very specific thyroid receptor that exists only in the extranuclear compartment. Actin polymerization is important to cell structure and motility, and particularly important to normal brain development.

Clearing up the Confusion about Reverse T3: Part 2. The Role of Reverse T3 in Thyroid Assessment

Reverse T3 interacts with αvβ3 integrin receptor and restores enzyme activities in the hippocampus of hypothyroid developing rats: Insight on signaling mechanisms.

Reverse T3 interacts with αvβ3 integrin receptor and restores enzyme activities in the hippocampus of hypothyroid developing rats: Insight on signa... - PubMed - NCBI

rT3 might be beneficial for brain function

rT3 might be beneficial for brain function

But I don't know what " actin polymerization in astrocytes in the brain" really means. And it seems to be more important during brain development.

If anyone has a clue what that means, please educate me.