What’s the general consensus on AI’s here?

[smokedsalmon]

Either I’ve been living under a rock or I’ve only really seen people discuss it heavily on other forums.
No particular reason at this moment, just wondering for future reference.

 

[pmgamer18]

If your labs show your E2 high take something to get it down you will feel much better.

pmgamer18

 

[smokedsalmon]

If your labs show your E2 high take something to get it down you will feel much better.

pmgamer18

What about all these guys who suggest just letting E2 land wherever it goes?

 

[swoops36]

What about all these guys who suggest just letting E2 land wherever it goes?

I’m assuming they would say don’t use an AI

 

[smokedsalmon]

I’m assuming they would say don’t use an AI

lol....I mean are there many on here as well? Is that an isolated group or a big thing?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

 

[S1W]

I'm of the camp that would like to avoid an AI at all costs.

It is important to note that E2 follows T. If your T is high, expect E2 to be high too. When my TT is over 1000, my E2 is usually mid to upper 40s. It doesn't cause me any issues (that I'm aware of) and it doesn't alarm me as I see it as having risen in line with my TT.

If my TT was in the 400s and my E2 was in the mid/upper 40s, then I would think a little harder about how to manage E2.

 

[pmgamer18]

I cant tell you what to do I am not a Dr. just have been a Mod. at a lot of forms for over 25 years.



For me high E2 Estradiol means huge Panic Attacks, ED, Sweating and feeling hot, Rash's sore and hard nipples and so on. I am secondary and my pituitary dose not tell my body to make any hormones.

pmgamer18

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I cant tell you what to do I am not a Dr. just have been a Mod. at a lot of forms for over 25 years.



For me high E2 Estradiol means huge Panic Attacks, ED, Sweating and feeling hot, Rash's sore and hard nipples and so on. I am secondary and my pituitary dose not tell my body to make any hormones.

pmgamer18

pmgamer18

When you say high estradiol, did you actually get it tested? Thanks

 

[Deleted member 16042]

I'd prefer to not use it, but I am a raving miserable bitch without. I have tried everything...

-I do not tolerate high T dosing to overrun E2 sides
-I have lowered T dose to where it is no longer effective. E2 remains high enough to create symptoms
-I have tried going off HCG. My testicle become very unhappy with atrophy and pain

And yes for all those of you who say ride it out... I tried. I went for 2 years before resorting to using any anastrozole. I seriously would rather not, but if not, I feel like Hell.

My best solution so far: keep T dose at lowest while still effective, dosing EOD seems like my sweet spot. I have tried daily which increases boating and bitchiness, and E3D where I get mood swings. I take a tiny bit of anastrozole EOD same schedule as T. This keeps me more stable than any other protocol.

N=1

 

[JV63]

I'd prefer to not use it, but I am a raving miserable bitch without. I have tried everything...

-I do not tolerate high T dosing to overrun E2 sides
-I have lowered T dose to where it is no longer effective. E2 remains high enough to create symptoms
-I have tried going off HCG. My testicle become very unhappy with atrophy and pain

And yes for all those of you who say ride it out... I tried. I went for 2 years before resorting to using any anastrozole. I seriously would rather not, but if not, I feel like Hell.

My best solution so far: keep T dose at lowest while still effective, dosing EOD seems like my sweet spot. I have tried daily which increases boating and bitchiness, and E3D where I get mood swings. I take a tiny bit of anastrozole EOD same schedule as T. This keeps me more stable than any other protocol.

N=1

N=1 is all that matters for each of us, that's why these "experts" that want to talk in absolutes when dealing with hormones should be taken with a grain of salt.

OP, you shouldn't be taking anything you don't need, but if you find that an AI is in your best interest, who cares what anybody else says.

 

[smokedsalmon]

View attachment 8458

Really good slide Nelson, thank you!

 

[smokedsalmon]

I'd prefer to not use it, but I am a raving miserable bitch without. I have tried everything...

-I do not tolerate high T dosing to overrun E2 sides
-I have lowered T dose to where it is no longer effective. E2 remains high enough to create symptoms
-I have tried going off HCG. My testicle become very unhappy with atrophy and pain

And yes for all those of you who say ride it out... I tried. I went for 2 years before resorting to using any anastrozole. I seriously would rather not, but if not, I feel like Hell.

My best solution so far: keep T dose at lowest while still effective, dosing EOD seems like my sweet spot. I have tried daily which increases boating and bitchiness, and E3D where I get mood swings. I take a tiny bit of anastrozole EOD same schedule as T. This keeps me more stable than any other protocol.

N=1

Interesting you have issues injecting daily. I never gave E3D a shot so I’d be curious if I would feel better in fewer injections. I’ve heard that’s rare though.

 

[Vince Carter]

If your labs show your E2 high take something to get it down you will feel much better.

pmgamer18

Very shallow and ill informed point of view.

 

[smokedsalmon]

N=1 is all that matters for each of us, that's why these "experts" that want to talk in absolutes when dealing with hormones should be taken with a grain of salt.

OP, you shouldn't be taking anything you don't need, but if you find that an AI is in your best interest, who cares what anybody else says.

Thanks man. Still debating this one. I noticed when I raised my dose from 150 to 200 (my TT at 150 was about 700), I lost some libido and gained some erectile function. Maybe a little more water weight. But was also going through a rough breakup at the time and started drinking more than I’d like to admit. Cleaning up that as we speak.

I suspect I should give it a couple of weeks without any drinking and see how I feel, before dropping my dose.

Cialis also works fantastic right now, so I have that as a crutch while everything levels, until I can get bloodwork probably mid next month.

 

[Tman]

I cant tell you what to do I am not a Dr. just have been a Mod. at a lot of forms for over 25 years.



For me high E2 Estradiol means huge Panic Attacks, ED, Sweating and feeling hot, Rash's sore and hard nipples and so on. I am secondary and my pituitary dose not tell my body to make any hormones.

pmgamer18

I get the anxiety, as well.

 

[smokedsalmon]

I personally believe the majority, like 99% of men, shouldn't take an ai. I suspect there's some additional metabolic issues going on with those that simply cannot tolerate e2 that's allowed to convert freely.

All kinds of theories on this. That's mine. Literally the best change I've ever made in protocol was slowly tapering the ai and then quitting it.

I'd say I've heard this the most. I think the most common reason I've seen guys take an AI is to offset higher bodyfat while they work on that.

 

[madman]

I'd say I've heard this the most. I think the most common reason I've seen guys take an AI is to offset higher bodyfat while they work on that.

Lean individuals can be high aromatizers too.....Dr. Crisler was one!

Keep in mind that testosterones metabolites dht and estradiol are critical to ones overall health and needed in healthy amounts in order to experience the full spectrum of testosterones beneficial effects.

I am almost 3 years in on trt....T only protocol.....never used an aromatase inhibitor or hCG.

My TT/FT levels are on the higher end as well as my e2.....I did experience ups/downs when first starting and in the following months.....but toughed it out and have never looked back.....feel great overall regarding energy/mood/libido/erectile function/body composition improvements/increased strength/recovery from exercise.....starting trt was a blessing!

 

[smokedsalmon]

Lean individuals can be high aromatizers too.....Dr. Crisler was one!

Keep in mind that testosterones metabolites dht and estradiol are critical to ones overall health and needed in healthy amounts in order to experience the full spectrum of testosterones beneficial effects.

I am almost 3 years in on trt....T only protocol.....never used an aromatase inhibitor or hCG.

My TT/FT levels are on the higher end as well as my e2.....I did experience ups/downs when first starting and in the following months.....but toughed it out and have never looked back.....feel great overall regarding energy/mood/libido/erectile function/body composition improvements/increased strength/recovery from exercise.....starting trt was a blessing!

Thanks madman - this seems to be the common story...tough it out and the body adapts to the E2 levels.

I'll admit I'm a little discouraged lately as I lost some libido by going up in dose. I was at a TT of 700, and then increased my dose from 150 to 200. E2 was just under 30. Before TRT, my E2 was around 20-24.

I have no other E2 symptoms that I can clearly notice. Maybe a little more tired and foggy than when I first increased my dose? Hard to say.

 

[Miironleg]

I'm in the no AI group. There is no long term safety study done in men. Also, the long term studies done in women show increased risk of cardiovascular and bone health issues. No thank you

Toxicity of Extended Adjuvant Therapy With Aromatase Inhibitors in Early Breast Cancer: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis. - PubMed - NCBI