TRT+ other medications

[omiflfa]

First off, an advance thank you for the wealth of information I have learned here. I have learned so much browsing as a guest and wish I knew half of what most of you have forgotten.

I am prescribed 200mg/week of Testosterone from my Urologist. I have been on since early 2022.

When tested prior to TRT- I had three tests that all had to be drawn by 8:00AM and my highest was 108ng/dl. Lowest and average was 96ng/dl.

No past drug, anabolics abuse. I drank a lot in my 30’s. Was a little overweight. No injury. The only medical condition is asthma that at times has required a lot of corticosteroid treatments.

Played sports my entire young life and was always strong and naturally more muscular than my peers in my teens and 20’s.

I have had a very stressful personal and professional life.

Started at 150mg/week.. just like everyone else harpooning myself one or twice a week. That got me back to the 700-800ng/dl range.

I wanted 900-1100 so he allowed 200mg every 7 days. Then estrogen issues crept up. He prescribed .5mg Armidex to be used when needed but no more often than 4 days. That caused my lipids to get bad. Not horrible but not good either. He prescribed Pravastatin for that.

I changed to daily dosing using an insulin pin. Roughly 180mg/week. Holding around 975ng/dl on average.

Then you can perfectly plot my BP increasing over the last year. Sometimes, shockingly high. He prescribed started hydrochlorthazide and losartin. Now I am only on losartin twice daily.

My questions…

Compared to where I was. 500ng/dl is amazing. But I don’t have the stamina or the strength that I do at 900-100ng/dl. I’m 6’3 and have a lot of mass so I get where I could need (want?) more but is that selfish for a 47 year old? If so, tell me.

I noticed while my strength was going through the roof, I wasn’t adding size other than what I had in my 20’s when still ego lifting. He prescribed Nandrolone which was absolutely amazing. After about a month, I was popping seams in my dress shirts but then came the paranoia and crazy thoughts and I quit it. My brain just couldn’t handle a 19-nor. I was nervous, jealous, paranoid and obsessive.. With this said.. would any of you think it’s normal to want to try Primobolin? (SP) or is that just selfish and stupid?

Testicles.. they are gone. I had good results from HCG but my insurance wouldn’t pay for it and I was tired of shelling out 250 for a vial. But I admit it helped a lot. More than just testicle size. Sensitivity returned, volume of ejaculate was quite impressive, I know.. shallow and petty.

Sensitivity..

5 days out of the week, I can get a great erection and have sex for an hour as hard as I can go. She doesn’t mind but the reason I can go for an hour is that I can’t feel it. The other two days it’s useless which I attribute to the Armidex because I’m just better with my e2 being a little higher. I’m more passionate and friendlier. If it falls below 40 I’m just not really interested in much.

I know I don’t want to be a shell of a man that I was three years ago but for what TRT fixes, it seems to create other issues downstream. For every three months that I’m on top of my game there is a month where I’m just bleh.. is this all worth it? Or does getting old just suck this bad?

Advice? Be honest please. I’m thick skinned and I appreciate your honesty and knowledge!

 

[Phil Goodman]

Just from an initial glance I’d say a lot of the downstream effects are from you chasing more benefits, and then attempting to correct the negatives that go along with additional benefits by adding medications.

You were good starting out, but wanted more so you upped your dose. Then you say your E2 went up(was this noticed mainly from potential sides or from repeated blooodwork?). Sides of having your test too high and sides that many people attribute to high E2 are the same or similar. The negatives could’ve simply been from having your test too high.

Then the aromatase inhibitor introduced negative side effects which should be 100% expected. To correct that you introduced a statin… and while there are mixed feelings on those, I’m of the belief that they should avoided as much as possible and only used as a last resort. Treating sides that may have arisen from an AI is not a last resort.

Then the blood pressure crept up, possibly due to your dose being too high, or possibly due to other compounds like Nandrolone (timeline for that wasn’t provided so not sure) so instead of adjusting, you added blood pressure medication. Not to mention dealing with all of the mental sides that went along with Nandrolone.

You also had success with HCG, but dropped it due to cost… meanwhile you seem to have no problem adding other drugs to fix issues as they arise.


There is no such thing as a free lunch, so you’re paying for all those feelings of being on top of your game/amazing by subjecting yourself to lower lows. Successful long term trt should not be a mission to feel incredible all the time, it’s about finding the right ratio of benefits that introduce the minimal amount of adverse effects. That may be different for everyone, and everyone has a different risk tolerance. But even if you say “I’m not concerned about any health risks because I 100% prioritize quality of years over quantity of years”, you’ll still have those lows that accompany the highs, as you’ve seen.

So what do you prioritize the most from trt? That will help you decide where to go. And if you want my personal opinion I’d say start by going back down to 150 and introduce HCG back to your protocol. After six weeks see where you are. And try to avoid the trap of always thinking you’re one supplement or dose adjustment away from having it all figured out to where you can feel incredible all the time.

 

[omiflfa]

Just from an initial glance I’d say a lot of the downstream effects are from you chasing more benefits, and then attempting to correct the negatives that go along with additional benefits by adding medications.

You were good starting out, but wanted more so you upped your dose. Then you say your E2 went up(was this noticed mainly from potential sides or from repeated blooodwork?). Sides of having your test too high and sides that many people attribute to high E2 are the same or similar. The negatives could’ve simply been from having your test too high.

Then the aromatase inhibitor introduced negative side effects which should be 100% expected. To correct that you introduced a statin… and while there are mixed feelings on those, I’m of the belief that they should avoided as much as possible and only used as a last resort. Treating sides that may have arisen from an AI is not a last resort.

Then the blood pressure crept up, possibly due to your dose being too high, or possibly due to other compounds like Nandrolone (timeline for that wasn’t provided so not sure) so instead of adjusting, you added blood pressure medication. Not to mention dealing with all of the mental sides that went along with Nandrolone.

You also had success with HCG, but dropped it due to cost… meanwhile you seem to have no problem adding other drugs to fix issues as they arise.


There is no such thing as a free lunch, so you’re paying for all those feelings of being on top of your game/amazing by subjecting yourself to lower lows. Successful long term trt should not be a mission to feel incredible all the time, it’s about finding the right ratio of benefits that introduce the minimal amount of adverse effects. That may be different for everyone, and everyone has a different risk tolerance. But even if you say “I’m not concerned about any health risks because I 100% prioritize quality of years over quantity of years”, you’ll still have those lows that accompany the highs, as you’ve seen.

So what do you prioritize the most from trt? That will help you decide where to go. And if you want my personal opinion I’d say start by going back down to 150 and introduce HCG back to your protocol. After six weeks see where you are. And try to avoid the trap of always thinking you’re one supplement or dose adjustment away from having it all figured out to where you can feel incredible all the time.

Phil, thank you for the reply.

E2 was always ordered with my labs. He forces me to have labs every 3 mos. After going to 200/mg week it was creeping up to 80-95. I was bloated, my nipples were like.. on fire and I was way too damn emotional about everything. That is where the AI came in.

He will only write 4, yes, 4 pills a month. He writes for 90 days but sets the despensing.

The nandrolone has only been for 60 days, once a year. I’ve done it twice. It’s amazing. But I can’t handle the mental sides. It seriously messes with me. My E2 was not impacted by it. Only my appetite and obsessive compulsive aggressive mental issues. Lipids were not impacted much either. BP did increase more with it.

You are right, I think I felt good again and that made me want to relive the good days.

I am fortunate to work in healthcare. I’m not patient facing but I don’t have to pay for meds if our plan admin BC/BS doesn’t deny something because why would a 47 year old male need HCG?

It’s not about the money.. I just want insurance to pay for it. I pay them - so do what I pay them for. Yes, I know that is contradictory.

I also agree that I should back down and add HCG in. It wasn’t a bad mix.

My priorities are I want to keep the ability to perform in the bedroom, at the gym and not go through life having zero energy, brain fog, 2nd guessing and able to make a decision on anything.

I know that I’m not going to be what I was at 25 anymore.

It was so bad when I started that Viagra wouldn’t even work.. that’s very sad for a 44 year old.

I hope I didn’t make a mess of that reply too much.

 

[Phil Goodman]

Phil, thank you for the reply.

E2 was always ordered with my labs. He forces me to have labs every 3 mos. After going to 200/mg week it was creeping up to 80-95. I was bloated, my nipples were like.. on fire and I was way too damn emotional about everything. That is where the AI came in.

He will only write 4, yes, 4 pills a month. He writes for 90 days but sets the despensing.

The nandrolone has only been for 60 days, once a year. I’ve done it twice. It’s amazing. But I can’t handle the mental sides. It seriously messes with me. My E2 was not impacted by it. Only my appetite and obsessive compulsive aggressive mental issues. Lipids were not impacted much either. BP did increase more with it.

You are right, I think I felt good again and that made me want to relive the good days.

I am fortunate to work in healthcare. I’m not patient facing but I don’t have to pay for meds if our plan admin BC/BS doesn’t deny something because why would a 47 year old male need HCG?

It’s not about the money.. I just want insurance to pay for it. I pay them - so do what I pay them for. Yes, I know that is contradictory.

I also agree that I should back down and add HCG in. It wasn’t a bad mix.

My priorities are I want to keep the ability to perform in the bedroom, at the gym and not go through life having zero energy, brain fog, 2nd guessing and able to make a decision on anything.

I know that I’m not going to be what I was at 25 anymore.

It was so bad when I started that Viagra wouldn’t even work.. that’s very sad for a 44 year old.

I hope I didn’t make a mess of that reply too much.

Gotcha. I’d say your priorities are definitely achievable with a more moderate dose of trt and HCG added to the protocol. You have a lot of the same goals that I had when starting(at age 39) except I didn’t have libido or performance issues, though that improved as well.

If you had ED issues bad enough to make viagra ineffective before starting then I’d say it’s possible/probable you already had cardiovascular issues before trt. Though trt could worsen(particularly at excessive doses) any of those. Lowering your dose and losing weight would help. Also, if you haven’t had a sleep study to identify sleep apnea that’s another thing to consider.

And I understand about the insurance thing, unfortunately many aspects of the healthcare( ie SICKcare) in this country suck. I pay out of pocket for both trt and HCG. I tend to view my health insurance like my auto insurance… I have it in case something terrible happens, but don’t expect it to cover maintenance I use to improve my health and life. I’d say those two expenses (trt and HCG) are two of my best expenses each year so it’s definitely worth it.

 

[Cataceous]

...
My priorities are I want to keep the ability to perform in the bedroom, at the gym and not go through life having zero energy, brain fog, 2nd guessing and able to make a decision on anything.
...

Unfortunately your priorities are likely at cross-purposes. Some nontrivial fraction of men must choose between overall health—and sexual health in particular—and high-level physical performance. You can read about the experiences of others in this post. I would argue that your doses are above what can honestly be called TRT, leading to your side effects and more medications to treat those side effects. Physiological doses are in the range of 40-100 mg testosterone cypionate per week. Phil and I just had a long debate over whether it's appropriate to start men on higher doses. I argued that men such as yourself are harmed because you never experience what normal levels feel like. Like you I appreciated the athletic benefits of higher levels, but overall I prefer having libido, penile sensitivity, no ED problems, etc. I think you owe it to yourself to experiment with physiological levels of testosterone. Some men find dropping the dose to be unpleasant for at least some weeks, but if you can ride out this transition period then you may like what you find.

As a side note, your total testosterone seems low relative to the dose. Has your SHBG been measured? It is likely quite low. This means your free testosterone is probably very high, even though your total testosterone appears normal. The latter is misleading, because free testosterone is what drives benefits and side effects.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I concur with Phil on what you should do. You should drop your TRT dose back down, restart the hCG, and tune the dosage of both so that the sum total E2 produced does not require an AI to prevent side effects. This is going to give you a better quality of life, good sexual function, and optimize for health.

hCG is very inexpensive from Indian pharmacies: https://www.reliablerxpharmacy.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=hcg

What could you do instead, if you wanted to trade health, well-being, and longevity for size? You could maintain your high testosterone dose, or even increase it, while adding primobolan to control estrogen. I hope you won't.

 

[Seagal]

"My priorities are I want to keep the ability to perform in the bedroom, at the gym and not go through life having zero energy, brain fog, 2nd guessing and able to make a decision on anything."
= TRT

But that's not what you want:

"Compared to where I was. 500ng/dl is amazing. But I don’t have the stamina or the strength that I do at 900-100ng/dl. I’m 6’3 and have a lot of mass so I get where I could need (want?) more but is that selfish for a 47 year old? If so, tell me.

I noticed while my strength was going through the roof, I wasn’t adding size other than what I had in my 20’s when still ego lifting. He prescribed Nandrolone which was absolutely amazing. After about a month, I was popping seams in my dress shirts ..."

TRT/bodybuilding can be a slippery slope.
It's not selfish, it's self-destructive. At least the way you are trying to achieve it. Or maybe not being able to accept one's natural limits.

 

[Vince]

I love the effect I get from HCG.

Thread 'How many Excelmale members use HCG.'

Jan 12, 2024

I know some Excelmale members have issues with HCG. So, I'm wondering what percent use HCG.

Since I started buying HCG from reliable. I inject 500 iu of HCG every third day instead of every 3 1/2 days. My libido is even stronger.

• Vince
• hcg poll
• Replies: 14
• Forum: Testosterone Basics & Questions

Experience with HCG from Reliable Rx? - Excel Male TRT Forum

Hey guys, I ordered and received two vials of HCG from reliable. Can anyone share their experiences or vouch for the legitimacy of HCG purchased from them ? Thanks

www.excelmale.com

 

[Vince]

Serum Testosterone Levels

25 mg/week: Levels dropped well below baseline; insufficient for replacement.

50 mg/week: Some increase, but still suboptimal.

125 mg/week: Returned testosterone to baseline (pre-suppression) levels for these young men.

300–600 mg/week: Produced supraphysiological levels—common in bodybuilding circles

Thread 'What is the Optimum TRT Dose for Muscle Growth? : Nelson Vergel Reviews the Data'

Jul 22, 2025

Landmark Study Reveals How Different Testosterone Doses Affect Muscle, Fat, and Health Markers in Young Men

A deep dive into one of the most influential studies on testosterone dosing reveals key takeaways for anyone interested in hormone optimization—a topic of persistent debate in men's health communities and clinics alike.

Background and Study Design

In 2001, a seminal paper was published in the American Journal of Physiology, Endocrinology and Metabolism. Dr. Shalender Bhasin and colleagues—considered among the...

• Nelson Vergel
• best testosterone dose best trt dose for muscle
• Replies: 3
• Forum: Testosterone Basics & Questions

• 

 

[Seagal]

Serum Testosterone Levels

25 mg/week: Levels dropped well below baseline; insufficient for replacement.

50 mg/week: Some increase, but still suboptimal.

125 mg/week: Returned testosterone to baseline (pre-suppression) levels for these young men.

300–600 mg/week: Produced supraphysiological levels—common in bodybuilding circles[1].

I give up!
AI succeeded humans in reasoning...
I apologize for being rude. It's just so frustrating.

 

[Vince]

I give up!

Please never give up

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Regarding Primobolin, it can have the affect of creating low estrogen symptoms and destroying libido. If you were going to try anything to add to TRT, I would vote for a LOW dose of oxandrolone, specifically no more than 10mg pre-workout, no more that 4 times per week. I'm increasingly of the view that there are a lot of people who should start TRT with enclomiphene and/or HCG and low dose oxandrolone, but that's another topic. So there's my non-judgemental answer...

HOWEVER, my two cents is that you are better off adjusting your mindset to train for all-around athleticism, which almost no one does, and putting the extra anabolics on hold for a while. For your stamina, you could add HIIT in the form of sled-pushing once a week, and add in some moderate intensity longer bicycle rides to try to get your work capacity up. Diet, especially carb timing, and stress management will be key. Consider shifting to a lifting routine that focuses on gradually increasing the number of sets you do at near maximal weights rather than max-effort sets. Consider declaring victory on your best lifts and go into maintenance mode on those, while prioritizing lagging movements, stuff no one does like front or safety bar squats, power cleans, gymnastic movements, sprints, etc. It will take you a long time to just learn some of those things so there is no reason for extra anabolics while you are building out your capability. If after all that, you still need or want a stamina boost there are much better ways to get it IMO that more T. The "more is never enough" mentality is highly psychologically addictive and allowing it to become part of how you value your self or others is a slippery slope IMO.

 

[Cataceous]

Serum Testosterone Levels

25 mg/week: Levels dropped well below baseline; insufficient for replacement.

50 mg/week: Some increase, but still suboptimal.

125 mg/week: Returned testosterone to baseline (pre-suppression) levels for these young men.

300–600 mg/week: Produced supraphysiological levels—common in bodybuilding circles

...

This is highly misleading due to using trough values on weekly injections. That 125 mg dose is supraphysiological except near the end of each injection cycle.

 

[omiflfa]

Gotcha. I’d say your priorities are definitely achievable with a more moderate dose of trt and HCG added to the protocol. You have a lot of the same goals that I had when starting(at age 39) except I didn’t have libido or performance issues, though that improved as well.

If you had ED issues bad enough to make viagra ineffective before starting then I’d say it’s possible/probable you already had cardiovascular issues before trt. Though trt could worsen(particularly at excessive doses) any of those. Lowering your dose and losing weight would help. Also, if you haven’t had a sleep study to identify sleep apnea that’s another thing to consider.

And I understand about the insurance thing, unfortunately many aspects of the healthcare( ie SICKcare) in this country suck. I pay out of pocket for both trt and HCG. I tend to view my health insurance like my auto insurance… I have it in case something terrible happens, but don’t expect it to cover maintenance I use to improve my health and life. I’d say those two expenses (trt and HCG) are two of my best expenses each year so it’s definitely worth it.

I took your advice and instead of 10 units this AM, I started 5 units which should be roughly 10mg of T instead of 20mg. Effectively cutting my dose in half.

You are smart, that is what started this off is that my PCP thought that some cardiovascular issue was at hand but it wasn’t. She sent me to a cardiologist and after a stress test, EKG, ECG and the calcium score with the dye I was negative for any heart disease. None. Unremarkable.

She ordered to have my hormone levels checked and found it to be low. She then sent me to the Urologist.

For me, at that time, TRT fixed every issue until I wanted more.

I get T and all meds for free, zero copay except for the HCG and it was at their cost but still 200-250 dollars a vial. A 10ml vial would last a month but he said they lose effectiveness even refrigerated after a couple of weeks so I was tossing one and opening another. It adds up.

 

[Seagal]

This is highly misleading due to using trough values on weekly injections. That 125 mg dose is supraphysiological except near the end of each injection cycle.

Exactly that.
If anyone cares, look at the baseline peak levels. Table 2 and table 7 for hemoglobin and hdl. This work did not aim to find the TRT dose for the study population. Read the discussion, limitations etc.

 

[Phil Goodman]

I took your advice and instead of 10 units this AM, I started 5 units which should be roughly 10mg of T instead of 20mg. Effectively cutting my dose in half.

You are smart, that is what started this off is that my PCP thought that some cardiovascular issue was at hand but it wasn’t. She sent me to a cardiologist and after a stress test, EKG, ECG and the calcium score with the dye I was negative for any heart disease. None. Unremarkable.

She ordered to have my hormone levels checked and found it to be low. She then sent me to the Urologist.

For me, at that time, TRT fixed every issue until I wanted more.

I get T and all meds for free, zero copay except for the HCG and it was at their cost but still 200-250 dollars a vial. A 10ml vial would last a month but he said they lose effectiveness even refrigerated after a couple of weeks so I was tossing one and opening another. It adds up.

To be clear, when I recommended lowering the dose I didn’t mean cutting it in half. If I’m interpreting correctly by your statement about taking 20, that means you’re taking 140/week. Going from 140/week down to 70 is very likely to result in a bad time. This is further supported by the fact that you felt great at 150/week. I’d say start by going down to around 120 and letting your body adjust for a while. Then add HCG (more on that aspect later). Based on what I’ve read it seems you’ve spent a lot of the journey bouncing around and haven’t really settled in fully other than when you felt good initially. Unfortunately that’s a tale as old as time, or at least as old as trt…. “I felt good until I chased more”.

Glad to hear there were no heart issues prior to starting. That’s a key piece of information. And just out of curiosity/for the sake of science, if you get a full panel again with regard to hear I’d be interested in hearing the results. With so many different variables(excessive trt amounts, AI usage, other anabolic compound usage, etc.) it will be practically impossible to pinpoint any changes on a specific thing, but would good to know either way.


What was your HCG dose? If a 10 mL vial only lasts one month then you are either running way too much or throwing away your money, possibly both. If you are getting pharma grade HCG like pregnyl it will stay potent well beyond one month. I only use around 750 ius/week and I’ve never noticed a drop in potency by the end of my vial. Also, I get it through Optum pharmacy paying out of pocket and it’s only around $120 per vial. That lasts me between 2-3 months, so not bad at all. If it’s been a while since you looked into it I’d recommend revisiting that

 

[omiflfa]

To be clear, when I recommended lowering the dose I didn’t mean cutting it in half. If I’m interpreting correctly by your statement about taking 20, that means you’re taking 140/week. Going from 140/week down to 70 is very likely to result in a bad time. This is further supported by the fact that you felt great at 150/week. I’d say start by going down to around 120 and letting your body adjust for a while. Then add HCG (more on that aspect later). Based on what I’ve read it seems you’ve spent a lot of the journey bouncing around and haven’t really settled in fully other than when you felt good initially. Unfortunately that’s a tale as old as time, or at least as old as trt…. “I felt good until I chased more”.

Glad to hear there were no heart issues prior to starting. That’s a key piece of information. And just out of curiosity/for the sake of science, if you get a full panel again with regard to hear I’d be interested in hearing the results. With so many different variables(excessive trt amounts, AI usage, other anabolic compound usage, etc.) it will be practically impossible to pinpoint any changes on a specific thing, but would good to know either way.


What was your HCG dose? If a 10 mL vial only lasts one month then you are either running way too much or throwing away your money, possibly both. If you are getting pharma grade HCG like pregnyl it will stay potent well beyond one month. I only use around 750 ius/week and I’ve never noticed a drop in potency by the end of my vial. Also, I get it through Optum pharmacy paying out of pocket and it’s only around $120 per vial. That lasts me between 2-3 months, so not bad at all. If it’s been a while since you looked into it I’d recommend revisiting that

Fair enough. I will adjust it to 7-7.5 units. It won’t be perfect but close to the target. I’m really want to get to a low-nominal dose and get labs at 6-8 weeks then go from there. I think I got way to comfortable thinking I could just adjust things up and down without a plan in place.

Or maybe that’s my over complicated response to say yes, I was bouncing around.

I expected to have something pop up heart wise just because I have a family history but thankfully it skipped me it seems. I’ve never smoked and I never abused drugs. Had a thing for alcohol in my 30’s quite bad but I moved on from that.

The HCG was pharma. I can’t remember the exact name but it was one of the big US pharma brands. And I was dosing twice a week. Every ~3.5 days,
This is my T, Free T and E2 from last month. Also, with a lipid panel from the same time.

 

[omiflfa]

I concur with Phil on what you should do. You should drop your TRT dose back down, restart the hCG, and tune the dosage of both so that the sum total E2 produced does not require an AI to prevent side effects. This is going to give you a better quality of life, good sexual function, and optimize for health.

hCG is very inexpensive from Indian pharmacies:
What could you do instead, if you wanted to trade health, well-being, and longevity for size? You could maintain your high testosterone dose, or even increase it, while adding primobolan to control estrogen. I hope you won't.

I am scared to death to order anything online. I would have no way to know if it’s safe or real. When I look to try and determine a safe place that people have had success with, I can tell that most of the reviews are bogus.

I agree that’s really affordable but is it real?

I am listening to Phil and all of you. I want to get back to a true replacement dose and stay there for a while. I want off the AI. Maybe by end of summer you all can help me put together a plan that helps with some gains then fall back to something sustainable long term.

I’m not going to add anything but I would like to talk about Primobolin sometime in the future. Someone else here tossed in looking at Anavar which I’ve also wondered about but I wouldn’t have a clue where to get it. Everything I’ve had has come via a prescription. I wish nandrolone wasn’t so harmful. It makes me right, minus the clinical insanity.

 

[omiflfa]

Regarding Primobolin, it can have the affect of creating low estrogen symptoms and destroying libido. If you were going to try anything to add to TRT, I would vote for a LOW dose of oxandrolone, specifically no more than 10mg pre-workout, no more that 4 times per week. I'm increasingly of the view that there are a lot of people who should start TRT with enclomiphene and/or HCG and low dose oxandrolone, but that's another topic. So there's my non-judgemental answer...

HOWEVER, my two cents is that you are better off adjusting your mindset to train for all-around athleticism, which almost no one does, and putting the extra anabolics on hold for a while. For your stamina, you could add HIIT in the form of sled-pushing once a week, and add in some moderate intensity longer bicycle rides to try to get your work capacity up. Diet, especially carb timing, and stress management will be key. Consider shifting to a lifting routine that focuses on gradually increasing the number of sets you do at near maximal weights rather than max-effort sets. Consider declaring victory on your best lifts and go into maintenance mode on those, while prioritizing lagging movements, stuff no one does like front or safety bar squats, power cleans, gymnastic movements, sprints, etc. It will take you a long time to just learn some of those things so there is no reason for extra anabolics while you are building out your capability. If after all that, you still need or want a stamina boost there are much better ways to get it IMO that more T. The "more is never enough" mentality is highly psychologically addictive and allowing it to become part of how you value your self or others is a slippery slope IMO.

I’m sure Primobolin is something I need to stay away from as well. Would still like to try it and Anavar but maybe it’s just not for me.

I agree on cardio. I need to do more. I also need to get right with my diet.

I workout 5 nights a week. Upper on M/Th.. lower on T/F. Wednesday is always cardio. Some groups cross days like back for example.

I always do weight where I can do three sets of 10-12. Maybe needing help on the last couple of bench. One week a month I’ll be stupid and go with weight that I can only do 2-3 of if that. I know 495 is light on squats compared to some of you but that was what I could do in HS and college. I can’t do it without the testosterone. 225 wasn’t possible when I started back before it three years ago.

 

[Phil Goodman]

This is highly misleading due to using trough values on weekly injections. That 125 mg dose is supraphysiological except near the end of each injection cycle.

1.) people should be treating more than numbers. I’d even go so far as to say chasing specific numbers is harmful, as we’ve seen from plenty of testimonials. Sure it can be somewhat helpful to track but definitely shouldn’t be the end all be all with regards to treatment. And the group in the study that was on 125 had a good balance of benefits without the negative side effects.

2.) the group on 50 mg/week also spent time at supraphysiological levels. Do you think that’s ok? If so, then what is the cutoff for how far above natural levels a person can go and what is the cutoff for how long a person can spend above that level? Because again the study shows the benefit/negative side effects ratio for each group, and imho the 120/week group fared the best.