Trans scrotal testosterone cream application is a game changer

[bbex2014]

ya injections don't seem to increase dht too much for most people, although I've seen bloodwork posted of some outliers. I took proviron in the past and never experienced shedding, so I felt like the cream wouldn't bother my hair too much. I'm assuming my supplements you mean dht derivatives, so ya, the cream may not be your best bet if you like hair on your head and off your back lol

 

[Gman86]

I’ve been following that YouTube channel for a long time, and have been a part of that fb group for a couple months now. Amazing resource for great info. They have great doctors and great moderators associated with it. Been spending a lot of time over there lately.

And that’s a great point. Definitely have to make sure the compounding pharmacy you use is 3rd party tested for quality.

@MYTVC15 hair loss is also my biggest concern while using the cream. I’ve been on the cream for about a month now, no hair loss noted. But I’m doing it a specific way to try and minimize my risk of hair loss. I started on 3 clicks am to the knees, 3 clicks to my inner forearms. Wanted to see if I could get my levels up with the cream, while not letting DHT go insanely high. Here were my labs on that protocol, 5 hours after am application.
10-5-19
Total T- 817 ng/dl (264-916)
Free T- 19.9 pg/ml (8.7-25.1)

Since then, I started applying 2 of the clicks in the am to my scrotum, and 1 click to back of the knees, and then all 3 clicks in pm to my forearms. Will be getting bloodwork again this upcoming week. My goal is to get my free T up where I know I feel my best. I usually need my total T around 1600+ to get my free t where I like it. So I have a ways to go. But my plan is to just apply one more of the clicks per day to my scrotum, until I get where I want to be numbers wise, and symptom resolution wise, while sticking to 300mg/ day. Just want to find the minimum amount of cream it takes applied to my scrotum to get my total and free where I want it.

 

[madman]

I’ve been following that YouTube channel for a long time, and have been a part of that fb group for a couple months now. Amazing resource for great info. They have great doctors and great moderators associated with it. Been spending a lot of time over there lately.

And that’s a great point. Definitely have to make sure the compounding pharmacy you use is 3rd party tested for quality.

@MYTVC15 hair loss is also my biggest concern while using the cream. I’ve been on the cream for about a month now, no hair loss noted. But I’m doing it a specific way to try and minimize my risk of hair loss. I started on 3 clicks am to the knees, 3 clicks to my inner forearms. Wanted to see if I could get my levels up with the cream, while not letting DHT go insanely high. Here were my labs on that protocol, 5 hours after am application.
10-5-19
Total T- 817 ng/dl (264-916)
Free T- 19.9 pg/ml (8.7-25.1)

Since then, I started applying 2 of the clicks in the am to my scrotum, and 1 click to back of the knees, and then all 3 clicks in pm to my forearms. Will be getting bloodwork again this upcoming week. My goal is to get my free T up where I know I feel my best. I usually need my total T around 1600+ to get my free t where I like it. So I have a ways to go. But my plan is to just apply one more of the clicks per day to my scrotum, until I get where I want to be numbers wise, and symptom resolution wise, while sticking to 300mg/ day. Just want to find the minimum amount of cream it takes applied to my scrotum to get my total and free where I want it.

You still caught up on you supposedly having to run these absurd TT/FT levels to feel your best so you say?

When in fact although your TT/FT levels from your most recent results:

I started on 3 clicks am to the knees, 3 clicks to my inner forearms. Wanted to see if I could get my levels up with the cream, while not letting DHT go insanely high. Here were my labs on that protocol, 5 hours after am application.

10-5-19
Total T- 817 ng/dl (264-916)
Free T- 19.9 pg/ml (8.7-25.1)


Had you stating in the other thread that you do not feel anywhere near as good as when your TT 1600+ ng/dl and FT 50-60 ng/dL (double the top end of the reference range TruT calculated).....and I replied telling you that first off you have only been on the scrotal application running such TT/FT levels for 2 weeks and although T levels will build up/stabilize much quicker when using transdermal application whether gel/cream one needs to give it 2-3 months at new said T level to truly gauge how you feel.

As you should know by now not only are T levels in FLUX when switching a protocol (increasing/decreasing dose) but MOST IMPORTANTLY once blood levels have stabilized it will take at least 2-3 months at the new T levels for the body to adapt.....let alone TRULY gauge how one feels overall at said TT/FT levels regarding relief/improvement of low-t symptoms and increased overall well-being.

Let's top this off with the fact that the whole time you have been on trt (few years) you were running absurdly high TT 1800 ng/FT 60+ng/dL levels at one time.....claiming you needed such due to your high SHBG as you were relying on the piss poor direct immunoassay results when testing your FT......when in fact if you should have been using the most accurate testing method such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (next best). Than you would have known that your FT level was absurdly high.

This was well before the everyone on the forum understood the importance of using the most accurate testing methods for FT such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (next best).....let alone the more recent research/understanding of SHBG:T binding and the use of the newer TruT model/algorithm.

You eventually went from running absurdly high TT/FT levels (1800 ng/dL/FT 60+ ng/dL well over double top end reference range TruT calculated).....only than to eventually try running slightly lower TT/FT levels (1600 ng/dL/FT 50-60 ng/dL basically double top end reference range TruT calculated).....and this is even after I pointed out the fact that your TT/FT trough levels are still absurdly high even with your somewhat higher SHBG.....using the newer calculated TruT method.

Now you are claiming that the way you feel overall when running a TT 1600 ng/dL/FT 50-60 ng/dL basically double the top end of the reference range TruT calculated) is like night/day compared to your most recent numbers using the transdermal cream TT 817 ng/dL/FT 30 ng/dL top end of the reference range TruT calculated).

Again the whole time you have been on trt you have basically been running absurd TT/FT levels as you have never truly given your body a fighting chance to see how you would truly feel overall running lower levels ) at least 2-3 months!

Let alone the most recent labs having your TT 817 ng/dL/FT 30 ng/dL top end of the reference range TruT calculated).....you were only 2 weeks in and already complaining.

Even if you ran such levels for 2-3 months and than could turn around and say you truly do not feel your best overall.....if anything it would be much more sensible to try running slightly higher TT 1200 ng/dL/FT high 30's ng/dL) for 2-3 months to truly gauge how you feel overall instead of claiming you need to run a TT 1600+ ng/dL/FT 50-60 ng/dL (double the top end of the reference range TruT calculated).

Reading through all your previous post since you have come on Excel you have struggled running those absurdly high levels, hematocrit among other things and you very well know your thyroid was not optimal!

What you are stating on here about needing to run these absurd TT/FT levels to feel your best is misleading as I stated before if you are not willing to give your new protocol using the transdermal cream that had your TT 817 ng/dL/FT 30s (top end of the reference range TruT calculated) at least 2-3 months to truly gauge how you feel overall.....let alone try a protocol running slightly higher TT 1200 ng/dL/FT high 30's for 2-3 months than stating you need to run a TT 1600+ ng/dL/FT 50-60 ng/dL is pure quackery!


Now after only being on the transdermal cream for 2 weeks or little over you just went and f***d it up again claiming you need to run these absurd TT 1600+/FT 50-60 ng/dL to feel your best:

Since then, I started applying 2 of the clicks in the am to my scrotum, and 1 click to back of the knees, and then all 3 clicks in pm to my forearms. Will be getting bloodwork again this upcoming week. My goal is to get my free T up where I know I feel my best. I usually need my total T around 1600+ to get my free t where I like it. So I have a ways to go. But my plan is to just apply one more of the clicks per day to my scrotum, until I get where I want to be numbers wise, and symptom resolution wise, while sticking to 300mg/ day. Just want to find the minimum amount of cream it takes applied to my scrotum to get my total and free where I want it. [/QUOTE]

 

[MYTVC15]

ya injections don't seem to increase dht too much for most people, although I've seen bloodwork posted of some outliers. I took proviron in the past and never experienced shedding, so I felt like the cream wouldn't bother my hair too much. I'm assuming my supplements you mean dht derivatives, so ya, the cream may not be your best bet if you like hair on your head and off your back lol

No, they weren't DHT derived. A long time ago like 2001 - I came across this obscure, little forum this guy ran where he was asking guys to try various concoctions of what I thought were seemingly innocent supplements. The reason was he was actually trying to target the pwrn industry so guys could have that huge "money shot". He said he knew for a fact guys in the pwrn industry used various things to make their loads bigger because he knew guys in the pwrn industry personally. So he was after the holy grail for that. So when I saw most guys were very happy with the little amounts of these things he already had put in capsules, I was like well...all of that stuff I can buy individually in larger amounts. Ya know, if that's good more must be better thing...well...lemme tell ya...

I went from like probably what would fill a tablespoon all my life to just gobs and gobs and gobs. If I didn't relieve myself via my g/f or by myself every 3 days, my balls would get huge and begin to ache like Hell. But, it came at a price, I started losing massive amounts of hair. Every day I took a shower I would look down and see the entire drain covered and an inch to an inch and a half high of nuthin' but hair. I had long hair back then, like Ozzy Osbourne long. And whether brush or comb even after the morning shower every day I was seeing either filled with hair. I really think I may have damaged my balls from doing that so I don't recommend it.

 

[Gman86]

You still caught up on you supposedly having to run these absurd TT/FT levels to feel your best so you say?

When in fact although your TT/FT levels from your most recent results:

I started on 3 clicks am to the knees, 3 clicks to my inner forearms. Wanted to see if I could get my levels up with the cream, while not letting DHT go insanely high. Here were my labs on that protocol, 5 hours after am application.

10-5-19
Total T- 817 ng/dl (264-916)
Free T- 19.9 pg/ml (8.7-25.1)


Had you stating in the other thread that you do not feel anywhere near as good as when your TT 1600+ ng/dl and FT 50-60 ng/dL (double the top end of the reference range TruT calculated).....and I replied telling you that first off you have only been on the scrotal application running such TT/FT levels for 2 weeks and although T levels will build up/stabilize much quicker when using transdermal application whether gel/cream one needs to give it 2-3 months at new said T level to truly gauge how you feel.

As you should know by now not only are T levels in FLUX when switching a protocol (increasing/decreasing dose) but MOST IMPORTANTLY once blood levels have stabilized it will take at least 2-3 months at the new T levels for the body to adapt.....let alone TRULY gauge how one feels overall at said TT/FT levels regarding relief/improvement of low-t symptoms and increased overall well-being.

Let's top this off with the fact that the whole time you have been on trt (few years) you were running absurdly high TT 1800 ng/FT 60+ng/dL levels at one time.....claiming you needed such due to your high SHBG as you were relying on the piss poor direct immunoassay results when testing your FT......when in fact if you should have been using the most accurate testing method such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (next best). Than you would have known that your FT level was absurdly high.

This was well before the everyone on the forum understood the importance of using the most accurate testing methods for FT such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (next best).....let alone the more recent research/understanding of SHBG:T binding and the use of the newer TruT model/algorithm.

You eventually went from running absurdly high TT/FT levels (1800 ng/dL/FT 60+ ng/dL well over double top end reference range TruT calculated).....only than to eventually try running slightly lower TT/FT levels (1600 ng/dL/FT 50-60 ng/dL basically double top end reference range TruT calculated).....and this is even after I pointed out the fact that your TT/FT trough levels are still absurdly high even with your somewhat higher SHBG.....using the newer calculated TruT method.

Now you are claiming that the way you feel overall when running a TT 1600 ng/dL/FT 50-60 ng/dL basically double the top end of the reference range TruT calculated) is like night/day compared to your most recent numbers using the transdermal cream TT 817 ng/dL/FT 30 ng/dL top end of the reference range TruT calculated).

Again the whole time you have been on trt you have basically been running absurd TT/FT levels as you have never truly given your body a fighting chance to see how you would truly feel overall running lower levels ) at least 2-3 months!

Let alone the most recent labs having your TT 817 ng/dL/FT 30 ng/dL top end of the reference range TruT calculated).....you were only 2 weeks in and already complaining.

Even if you ran such levels for 2-3 months and than could turn around and say you truly do not feel your best overall.....if anything it would be much more sensible to try running slightly higher TT 1200 ng/dL/FT high 30's ng/dL) for 2-3 months to truly gauge how you feel overall instead of claiming you need to run a TT 1600+ ng/dL/FT 50-60 ng/dL (double the top end of the reference range TruT calculated).

Reading through all your previous post since you have come on Excel you have struggled running those absurdly high levels, hematocrit among other things and you very well know your thyroid was not optimal!

What you are stating on here about needing to run these absurd TT/FT levels to feel your best is misleading as I stated before if you are not willing to give your new protocol using the transdermal cream that had your TT 817 ng/dL/FT 30s (top end of the reference range TruT calculated) at least 2-3 months to truly gauge how you feel overall.....let alone try a protocol running slightly higher TT 1200 ng/dL/FT high 30's for 2-3 months than stating you need to run a TT 1600+ ng/dL/FT 50-60 ng/dL is pure quackery!


Now after only being on the transdermal cream for 2 weeks or little over you just went and f***d it up again claiming you need to run these absurd TT 1600+/FT 50-60 ng/dL to feel your best:

Since then, I started applying 2 of the clicks in the am to my scrotum, and 1 click to back of the knees, and then all 3 clicks in pm to my forearms. Will be getting bloodwork again this upcoming week. My goal is to get my free T up where I know I feel my best. I usually need my total T around 1600+ to get my free t where I like it. So I have a ways to go. But my plan is to just apply one more of the clicks per day to my scrotum, until I get where I want to be numbers wise, and symptom resolution wise, while sticking to 300mg/ day. Just want to find the minimum amount of cream it takes applied to my scrotum to get my total and free where I want it.

[/QUOTE]

Idk what to tell you. I can’t help that I feel my best with higher total T levels. I’ve been doing HRT for over 5 years, now, have tried pretty much everything, and get labs done 5-6 times per year. I’m also very in tune with my body. So I know exactly how I feel with different levels of each hormone. Everyone’s different. I can’t help that I feel better with levels that are higher than what some people are used to seeing.

I think you are a little confused to my story. My original primary issue was brain fog. It’s plagued me the whole time on HRT. But throughout these past 5 years, when my levels are where I like them, I feel excellent in all categories, other than brain fog. Energy, libido, erections, mood, sleep, strength, muscle gain, fat loss, decreased stress, etc. The only reason I’ve tried changing my protocols so much is because I just couldn’t kick the brain fog, and was willing to try something else in the off chance that it might improve my brain fog. But recently, I learned that the house I’ve been at for about 6 years now, is infested with black mold. This is most likely the reason for my brain fog. I’m actually moving out in 1-2 weeks, and I’m hoping the brain fog starts to improve once I get out of the moldy environment I’m in.

So it’s not that some of the protocols I’ve been on haven’t worked. Some have worked extremely well. Honestly, 90% of the time on HRT I’ve felt great in all areas other than brain fog. I have more lab work to look back to than most will have in 20 lifetimes. For me, it’s easy to see that anytime I’ve felt my best, my total T has been 1500+. Anytime my free T falls too low (for me), I still feel ok in most areas, but there’s absolutely a noticeable difference compared to when my free T is where I like it. Again, I can’t help that I feel better with higher levels than what is the “norm”.

Since I know that my main issue is most likely the mold I’m living in, my plan is to get out of the mold, get my levels where I like them on the cream, and just coast and wait for my body to adjust. At the end of the day, we all know that how we feel subjectively is much more important than what our labs say. For me, without fail, I always feel better when my free T is much higher than the top of the tru-t range. It wouldn’t make any sense for me to ignore all this data and history I have on myself, and think that even though without fail I feel better with “X” level of free T, that all of a sudden my body might feel better with half that level, when over the past 5 years that hasn’t been the case even once. It just doesn’t make any logical sense to think that way, imo. No offense to you and your logic. I completely get what you’re saying. I just have to make decisions based off of the knowledge I have about myself, and the experience I’ve personally had balancing hormones. Again, everyone is different. But I genuinely appreciate the effort you put into these replies, and the fact that you’re trying to help. So thank you.

 

[Gman86]

No, they weren't DHT derived. A long time ago like 2001 - I came across this obscure, little forum this guy ran where he was asking guys to try various concoctions of what I thought were seemingly innocent supplements. The reason was he was actually trying to target the pwrn industry so guys could have that huge "money shot". He said he knew for a fact guys in the pwrn industry used various things to make their loads bigger because he knew guys in the pwrn industry personally. So he was after the holy grail for that. So when I saw most guys were very happy with the little amounts of these things he already had put in capsules, I was like well...all of that stuff I can buy individually in larger amounts. Ya know, if that's good more must be better thing...well...lemme tell ya...

I went from like probably what would fill a tablespoon all my life to just gobs and gobs and gobs. If I didn't relieve myself via my g/f or by myself every 3 days, my balls would get huge and begin to ache like Hell. But, it came at a price, I started losing massive amounts of hair. Every day I took a shower I would look down and see the entire drain covered and an inch to an inch and a half high of nuthin' but hair. I had long hair back then, like Ozzy Osbourne long. And whether brush or comb even after the morning shower every day I was seeing either filled with hair. I really think I may have damaged my balls from doing that so I don't recommend it.

What exactly did you do to increase your load size and cause the shedding? I think I missed it if you posted it already.

 

[MYTVC15]

What exactly did you do to increase your load size and cause the shedding? I think I missed it if you posted it already.

First two words GMAN86 - Wild Oregano - Get some ASAP - It made all the difference in the world when I had respiratory issues due to living in a house with black mold.

As to your question, I didn't say what I took because I'm just not so sure it's a good idea for guys to be doing it. I did it for a little under a year. The following year after complete cessation I noticed my libido had dropped considerably. Did I blow my balls up or was I now dependent on it? Either way it prompted me to get a testosterone test AND a sperm count/motility test because my g/f and I were trying to get pregnant and it just wasn't happening. Also consider my lab results when years later I decide to get another T test when I suddenly became diabetic and was feeling like I was gonna die any second...
Bioavailable T off the chart low and free T off the chart low. FSH HIGH meaning there's a problem with the balls. But knowing all that if you still want to know, I'll tell ya, just word to the wise...proceed with caution.

 

[Gman86]

First two words GMAN86 - Wild Oregano - Get some ASAP - It made all the difference in the world when I had respiratory issues due to living in a house with black mold.

As to your question, I didn't say what I took because I'm just not so sure it's a good idea for guys to be doing it. I did it for a little under a year. The following year after complete cessation I noticed my libido had dropped considerably. Did I blow my balls up or was I now dependent on it? Either way it prompted me to get a testosterone test when I suddenly became diabetic and was feeling like I was gonna die any second...AND a sperm count/motility test because my g/f and I were trying to get pregnant and it just wasn't happening. Also consider my lab results when years later I decide to get another T test. Bioavailable T off the chart low and free T off the chart low. FSH HIGH meaning there's a problem with the balls. But knowing all that if you still want to know, I'll tell ya, just word to the wise...proceed with caution.

Haha nah it’s ok. Whatever you tried I wouldn’t even mess with anyways. Huge loads do sound pretty awesome, not gonna lie, but the hair shedding scares the $hit out of me

Thanks so much for the wild oregano recommendation! Any specific brand or form of it you recommend?

 

[MYTVC15]

Haha nah it’s ok. Whatever you tried I wouldn’t even mess with anyways. Huge loads do sound pretty awesome, not gonna lie, but the hair shedding scares the $hit out of me

Thanks so much for the wild oregano recommendation! Any specific brand or form of it you recommend?

I don't remember the brand (it was back in 2004) but I do know it was powder form. The difference in my breathing was damn near immediate. The house I was living in was loaded with it in the basement. I tried it because a doctor had recommended it to someone that had called in to a radio station complaining of respiratory issues from black mold. I figured, well Hell, it's oregano right? Can't hurt but once I tried it I could see from the difference it made how bad off I had been. To me, wild oregano does to mold in the lungs what super concentrated bleach does to black mold on walls, kills it and makes it disappear.

 

[Gman86]

I don't remember the brand (it was back in 2004) but I do know it was powder form. The difference in my breathing was damn near immediate. The house I was living in was loaded with it in the basement. I tried it because a doctor had recommended it to someone that had called in to a radio station complaining of respiratory issues from black mold. I figured, well Hell, it's oregano right? Can't hurt but once I tried it I could see from the difference it made how bad off I had been. To me, wild oregano is to the lungs like what super concentrated bleach does to black mold on walls, kills it and makes it disappear.

Last question about this. When I look up wild oregano, all that pops up is the oil form. Basically oil of oregano. You think that’s basically the same thing? And how did you take it? Just swallow it with water?

 

[MYTVC15]

Last question about this. When I look up wild oregano, all that pops up is the oil form. Basically oil of oregano. You think that’s basically the same thing? And how did you take it? Just swallow it with water?

Yea it seems most forms today are oil extracts, look at this one though seems to be a powder. OregaMax – 90 capsules - North American Herb & Spice

 

[BigBamBoo]

I was on 240mg of T a week and my DHT is mid range.

Of course my SHBG was 70+.

 

[wondering]

I'd like to try cream with injections but am worried about hair loss. Kinda strange I'm up to 200mg. per week T-cyp and no hair issues. Has me wondering what's going on with my DHT levels. In the past I tried using various supplements to increase "load volume" well they increased volume alright but my hair was falling out in huge clumps.

My biggest concern as well. I have my hands on some cream, but have been hesitant to use it. I will lose my hair at some point in the next couple years (absent some miracle cure coming out), but not looking to make it happen sooner.

 

[Gman86]

My biggest concern as well. I have my hands on some cream, but have been hesitant to use it. I will lose my hair at some point in the next couple years (absent some miracle cure coming out), but not looking to make it happen sooner.

I’m worried as well. I haven’t had any issues on TRT up until this point, and DHT has been over 100 a lot of the time while I’ve been on injections. So I’m hoping that I will continue to not have any issues on the cream. I’ve heard that if you haven’t shown any signs of MPB by the time you’re 30, that you have a decent chance of not having any issues with high DHT and hair loss. I’m 33, so I’m hoping this holds true.

 

[wondering]

I’m worried as well. I haven’t had any issues on TRT up until this point, and DHT has been over 100 a lot of the time while I’ve been on injections. So I’m hoping that I will continue to not have any issues on the cream. I’ve heard that if you haven’t shown any signs of MPB by the time you’re 30, that you have a decent chance of not having any issues with high DHT and hair loss. I’m 33, so I’m hoping this holds true.

I stared with MPB at around 22. So, Im on my way. About 2-3 years away from it. Again, unless some miracle comes out. There are couple promising cosmetic products that may come out in the next year or so.

I'm getting my DHT tested in the next week or so. May see what it is before trying the cream.

 

[madman]

Idk what to tell you. I can’t help that I feel my best with higher total T levels. I’ve been doing HRT for over 5 years, now, have tried pretty much everything, and get labs done 5-6 times per year. I’m also very in tune with my body. So I know exactly how I feel with different levels of each hormone. Everyone’s different. I can’t help that I feel better with levels that are higher than what some people are used to seeing.

I think you are a little confused to my story. My original primary issue was brain fog. It’s plagued me the whole time on HRT. But throughout these past 5 years, when my levels are where I like them, I feel excellent in all categories, other than brain fog. Energy, libido, erections, mood, sleep, strength, muscle gain, fat loss, decreased stress, etc. The only reason I’ve tried changing my protocols so much is because I just couldn’t kick the brain fog, and was willing to try something else in the off chance that it might improve my brain fog. But recently, I learned that the house I’ve been at for about 6 years now, is infested with black mold. This is most likely the reason for my brain fog. I’m actually moving out in 1-2 weeks, and I’m hoping the brain fog starts to improve once I get out of the moldy environment I’m in.

So it’s not that some of the protocols I’ve been on haven’t worked. Some have worked extremely well. Honestly, 90% of the time on HRT I’ve felt great in all areas other than brain fog. I have more lab work to look back to than most will have in 20 lifetimes. For me, it’s easy to see that anytime I’ve felt my best, my total T has been 1500+. Anytime my free T falls too low (for me), I still feel ok in most areas, but there’s absolutely a noticeable difference compared to when my free T is where I like it. Again, I can’t help that I feel better with higher levels than what is the “norm”.

Since I know that my main issue is most likely the mold I’m living in, my plan is to get out of the mold, get my levels where I like them on the cream, and just coast and wait for my body to adjust. At the end of the day, we all know that how we feel subjectively is much more important than what our labs say. For me, without fail, I always feel better when my free T is much higher than the top of the tru-t range. It wouldn’t make any sense for me to ignore all this data and history I have on myself, and think that even though without fail I feel better with “X” level of free T, that all of a sudden my body might feel better with half that level, when over the past 5 years that hasn’t been the case even once. It just doesn’t make any logical sense to think that way, imo. No offense to you and your logic. I completely get what you’re saying. I just have to make decisions based off of the knowledge I have about myself, and the experience I’ve personally had balancing hormones. Again, everyone is different. But I genuinely appreciate the effort you put into these replies, and the fact that you’re trying to help. So thank you.[/QUOTE]

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Your clomid and hCG mono therapy aside.....the majority of your time on trt you have always ran absurdly high TT/FT levels.....let alone you were using an inaccurate testing method for FT. Your FT levels were always much higher than you thought.

Again.....ever since you started posting on this forum you have never stated you ever tried running lower TT/FT levels for a long enough period to truly gauge how you feel.

You have went from two extremes.....a TT trough 1800-1600 ng/dL for a majority of time on trt up until your most recent change to transdermal cream which had your TT 817 ng/dL and FT around 30 ng/dL (top end reference range TruT calculated) and you were only on such protocol at said levels for 2 weeks.....than you go on stating that you do not feel well overall.....WTF?

The 1800 ng/dL was at trough on an EOD protocol.....your peak levels would be higher.

Never seen you ever try running a TT trough 1000-1200 ng/dL which would have your FT in the high 30's ng/dL (over the top end) for a solid 2-3 months to truly gauge how you feel.

How can you state that you NEED to run absurdly high TT/FT levels when you have never tried running lower levels for a sensible amount of time?




Here are some of your most recent labs from earlier this year before you decided to give up on injections and switch over to the transdermal cream.


May 8, 2019

4-30-19
Labs were while on this protocol: (Testosterone Propionate only)
TEST - 122.5mg/ week. 17.5mg injected ED IM
No HCG
No AI

*Labs were drawn 34 hours after last 17.5mg injection. Basically 1.5 days after last injection*
Reason was because I held my injection the morning I was going to get labs, but wasn't able to make it to Quest before I had to go to work. So didn't get to inject before work, and ended up getting labs done right after work at 5pm.

Total Testosterone - 1423 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free Testosterone - 134.8 (46.0-224.0)
Bioavailable Testosterone - 265.5 (110.0-575.0 ng/dL)
SHBG 63 (10-50) High due to being on desiccated thyroid (I'm assuming)
E2 Sensitive - 72
E2 NOT Sensitive - 49 (After analyzing all previous labs, this is my correct E2, IMO, not 72)
E2 Free - 1.02 (0.2-1.5)
Albumin - 4.3 (3.6-5.1)
IGF-1 - 202 (53-331)
B12 - 1081 (200-1100)
DHEA-S - 465 (106-464) No DHEA supplementation




On your above protocol!

TT 1423 ng/dL, SHBG 63 nmol/L, Albumin 4.3 g/dL than your FT is 48.24 ng/dL
(still very high.....reference range 16-31 ng/dL).


If you are going to tell me that you do not feel well at this FT level than you have a lot more going on than simply your testosterone.








For reference, here were the last labs I had done while on testosterone cypionate

2-20-19
Labs were while on this protocol:
TEST- 171.5mg/ week. 49mg injected EOD.
HCG- 1000iu. 290iu EOD
Exemestane - 6.25mg E3D - E4D

*Labs were done the morning I was supposed to inject, prior to injecting. So at trough, while injecting EOD*

Total Testosterone - 1670 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free Testosterone - 242.8 (46.0-224.0)
Bioavailable Testosterone - 509.9 (110.0-575.0 ng/dL)
SHBG 44 (10-50)
E2 Sensitive - 28
E2 NOT Sensitive - 32
E2 Free - 0.76 (0.2-1.5)
Albumin - 4.6 (3.6-5.1)




On your above protocol.....and you were using an aromatase inhibitor!

Using the newer calculated TruT method with a TT 1670 ng/dL, SHBG 44 nmol/L (by no means that high), Albumin 4.6 g/dL than your FT is 56.77 ng/dL (way too high.....reference range 16-31 ng/dL).





You stated in your reply below:

"I think you are a little confused to my story. My original primary issue was brain fog. It’s plagued me the whole time on HRT. But throughout these past 5 years, when my levels are where I like them, I feel excellent in all categories, other than brain fog. Energy, libido, erections, mood, sleep, strength, muscle gain, fat loss, decreased stress, etc"


Really?


Some of your older previous posts!

"I'm in a similar boat. High SHBG. No ED whatsoever, but libido is not really there"

2-25-18 labs were while on this protocol:
Test- 110mg split into EOD dosing
HCG - 800IU split into EOD dosing
No AI

I inject test and HCG same day in the morning. Labs drawn in the morning of injection day, prior to injections.

Total 1687 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free 238.6 (46.0-224.0)
Bioavailable 459.6 (110.0-575.0 ng/dL)
SHBG 47 (10-50)
E2 Sensitive - 73
E2 standard - 59



Jun 29, 2017

So just got my 60 day labs back recently, and it gave me a good insight on how the Pregnyl HCG is working. Protocol is 100mg Test/ week and 1,000IU HCG/ week. No AI. Both dosed EOD. 28mg of test EOD, and 270iu of HCG EOD. Labs were done the morning I was supposed to inject. Test brand is EmpowerRx and HCG brand is Pregnyl.

Total Test - 1855 (250-1100)
Free Test - 296.8 (35.0-155.0)
Estradiol - 70 (<29)
SHBG - 44 (10-50)




Jun 7, 2018

I've read multiple times and seen multiple anectodal stories of bigger guys requiring bigger doses of test, is this true? I've also seen that the opposite is true. Smaller guys requiring less. I think I might be seeing it with myself to be honest.

For example, I'm 5'5” 135lbs 31 Y/O and my first TRT protocol had my total test at 1855 at trough. So I think there might be some truth to this. I'm on EOD injections, so my trough isn't going to fluctuate much from my peak.

First Protocol:
105mg Empower pharmacy Test/ week total. Split into EOD injections. (28mg EOD)

1,000iu's Pregnyl HCG/ week total. Split into EOD injections. (270iu EOD)

No AI.

SHBG - 44 (10-50)

Total test - 1855 (250-1100)

Labs were drawn in the morning right before my injections



Your FT was f***n 67.52 ng/dL at trough!

Feb.13/2017

I currently have low to no libido. Erections are no problem, but my sex drive is still not there. I think that has a lot to do with my E2 being 70. I'm working on lowering that now, so I'm hoping my sex drive returns when my E2 gets within range. Once my libido comes back, my theory is that my semen amount during ejaculation will increase. I could be wrong on that tho since some men just on testosterone with high libidos have reported low ejaculate amount. But I'm curious to see if the amount for me does increase while on Test + HCG when my libido returns. But to answer your question again, I do think I noticed a small increase when switching to Pregnyl, but nothing very significant.




Feb 8, 2018

My HCT was steady at 48 for a while on TRT. It has recently increased to 51. I'm also on EOD injections. I'm hoping one or two whole blood donations will lower it enough to where it stays steady in the mid 40's. Then donate again in the future if needed. But due to the dangers of lowering ferritin too much, I'm hoping to not have to make these blood donations a regular thing. My ferritin has gone as low as 20 in the past due to just getting lab work done too frequently, so I would imagine donating blood too frequently would for sure tank it.

*doubt it had anything to do with getting lab work done too frequently as for most the volume of blood taken would not be significant to effect such.....donating too frequently and lack of iron through diet/supplementation, absorption issue or underlying health issue.


Feb 5, 2018

I was using a bottle of HCG that I had been using for a little over 2 months, and I noticed my testicles were hanging nicely and my penis was very full flaccid the last few weeks of that bottle. Then a few days after starting a new bottle of HCG I noticed increased brain fog, increased fatigue, my testicles weren't hanging as well and my penis was nowhere near as full as it was when using the older bottle of HCG. Same brand I've been using for over a year now. I'm getting blood work done soon, but I'm guessing the new bottle of HCG was obviously more potent, and made my E2 rise too much. Or too much HCG is increasing downstream hormones too much or something and causing my issues. Either scenario, lowering my HCG dose might help. Currently on 800iu/ week. Thinking about going down to 500iu/week. Might even stop it all together for a couple weeks just to see how I feel with it out of my system. Can't cut it out forever due to not wanting my testicles to atrophy




May 30, 2018

Same. With low T I hade zero sexual sides, and libido was good from what I remember. It was definitely the mental sides that caused me to seek treatment.

Also I’m able to keep fat off much easier now. That was a side effect of low T I didn’t even realize I was experiencing. It was definitely harder to keep fat off before I started TRT.



You have way too many numerous posts on here where you were struggling with libido, E2 (as you used to take an aromatase inhibitor), high hematocrit (crashed ferritin from donating too frequently), sub-par thyroid, possible issues regarding adrenals.


Yet the whole time on trt you have been running absurdly high TT/FT levels.


May 30, 2018

Same. With low T I hade zero sexual sides, and libido was good from what I remember. It was definitely the mental sides that caused me to seek treatment.

Also I’m able to keep fat off much easier now. That was a side effect of low T I didn’t even realize I was experiencing. It was definitely harder to keep fat off before I started TRT.


So let me get this right pre-trt when you had low-t which would mean your FT was sub-par as you had high SHBG so your FT would have been in low end/or under(depending on your TT/SHBG levels) of the FT reference range of 16-31 ng/dL using the newer calculated TruT method and you had zero sexual sides with a good libido but the main reason was the mental sides that caused you to seek out trt.

So pre-trt your TT levels were descent but your FT levels were low/sub-par due to your high SHBG.....using the TruT calculated method your FT levels would have been say below or just above 16 ng/dL (bottom end range).....now all of a sudden you need to jack your TT levels to 1600-1800 ng/dL and your FT levels up to 50-60+ ng/dL (double top end reference range) to experience relief/improvement of your low-t symptoms let alone overall well being?

Seems ridiculous if anything.





Since I know that my main issue is most likely the mold I’m living in, my plan is to get out of the mold, get my levels where I like them on the cream, and just coast and wait for my body to adjust. At the end of the day, we all know that how we feel subjectively is much more important than what our labs say. For me, without fail, I always feel better when my free T is much higher than the top of the tru-t range. It wouldn’t make any sense for me to ignore all this data and history I have on myself, and think that even though without fail I feel better with “X” level of free T, that all of a sudden my body might feel better with half that level, when over the past 5 years that hasn’t been the case even once. It just doesn’t make any logical sense to think that way, imo. No offense to you and your logic. I completely get what you’re saying. I just have to make decisions based off of the knowledge I have about myself, and the experience I’ve personally had balancing hormones. Again, everyone is different. But I genuinely appreciate the effort you put into these replies, and the fact that you’re trying to help. So thank you.[/QUOTE]

We are not talking about half the level here as first off you never gave the protocol a fighting chance.....2 weeks in......not 2-3 months......let alone ever tried what I state below.

Would hold merit if you actually tried running slightly lower TT 1200 ng/dL and FT high 30's ng/dL for long enough to truly know how your body responds.....as you may very well feel just as good at such levels.

You went from one extreme to the other TT 1600-1800 ng/dL and FT 50-60 ng/dL (double top end range) most of your time on trt to your most recent protocol transdermal cream TT 817 ng/dL and FT 30 ng/dL (top end range) for 2 weeks not the 2-3 months needed at said TT/FT level.

What were you truly expecting here.....2 weeks in at the lower level and you were complaining I need extremely high TT/FT levels to feel my best!

You wonder why so many have issues on here.....changing their protocols left and right let alone to quickly without giving the body time to adapt (2-3 months) to the newer T levels.

Regardless whether increasing/decreasing dose levels will always be in FLUX in the weeks leading up until levels stabilize and even than it can take many months before one can truly gauge how the body responds to said TT/FT level.

Too many seem to have this mindset that very high test levels are better.....when in many cases most could feel just as well or even better running slightly lower levels......unfortunately not only do many never try such.....they never give the body time to adapt to the newer levels to truly experience whether they experience the beneficial effects or lack there of.

 

[MYTVC15]

Damn madman, that's quite the exhaustive examination of Gman86's TRT.

IDK...but I have to say I got 200mg. of T the first week, then took 140mg. thereafter and immediately after the 6th shot had blood drawn and came up with only 533 TT and I feel only a little better energy wise than when I first started aside from the strange, random erection here and there while I'm not even thinking about sex.
I'm starting to think people with type O blood need more T...lol...

 

[wondering]

Damn madman, that's quite the exhaustive examination of Gman86's TRT.

IDK...but I have to say I got 200mg. of T the first week, then took 140mg. thereafter and immediately after the 6th shot had blood drawn and came up with only 533 TT and I feel only a little better energy wise than when I first started aside from the strange, random erection here and there while I'm not even thinking about sex.
I'm starting to think people with type O blood need more T...lol...

seriously madman, you need to find a hobby. lol

 

[Gman86]

I stared with MPB at around 22. So, Im on my way. About 2-3 years away from it. Again, unless some miracle comes out. There are couple promising cosmetic products that may come out in the next year or so.

I'm getting my DHT tested in the next week or so. May see what it is before trying the cream.

Im subscribed to this guy on YouTube. Haven’t watched this video yet, but he just put it out today. He’s constantly experimenting with things to prevent hair loss/ regrow hair/ keep hair thick.

 

[MYTVC15]

I stared with MPB at around 22. So, Im on my way. About 2-3 years away from it. Again, unless some miracle comes out. There are couple promising cosmetic products that may come out in the next year or so.

I'm getting my DHT tested in the next week or so. May see what it is before trying the cream.

Yea, I think it's a very good idea to get your DHT levels before using anything known to profoundly raise DHT. Then too if any hair starts falling out, you can check it again and then you'll know what level of DHT you have to stay below.
Does anyone know if all pharmacies make this scrotal cream? Is that what the doc would need to write on the script? Is it like like 50mg. twice daily Testosterone scrotal cream or is it more like Testosterone cream 1200mg. per ml, 50mg. applied to scrotum BID. I guess what I'm trying to ask is if it's actually called scrotal cream or just cream? And am wondering if my doc could just order it through any pharmacy.

Oh hey, in anticipation of starting TRT I thought it would be a good idea to try one of them thare anti-DHT shampoos. I ended up getting this one from Amazon... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FH692PQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 You don't see too many things on Amazon with almost 11,000 positive reviews and although I balked at the price, I ended up getting it. I don't know if it's working because I haven't lost any hair so maybe it is but it does make your hair feel and look thicker in a completely natural way so I like it for that alone.