Testosterone and prosocial behavior

Testosterone eliminates strategic prosocial behavior through impacting choice consistency in healthy males - Neuropsychopharmacology

Humans are strategically more prosocial when their actions are being watched by others than when they act alone. Using a psychopharmacogenetic approach, we investigated the endocrinological and computational mechanisms of such audience-driven prosociality. One hundred and ninety-two male...

www.nature.com

 

[Jim Marlowe]

Testosterone eliminates strategic prosocial behavior through impacting choice consistency in healthy males - Neuropsychopharmacology

Humans are strategically more prosocial when their actions are being watched by others than when they act alone. Using a psychopharmacogenetic approach, we investigated the endocrinological and computational mechanisms of such audience-driven prosociality. One hundred and ninety-two male...

www.nature.com

Is it improper to like a post about a study if you only read the abstract? Or is it ok as long as you don't admit you only read the abstract?

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I skimmed the paper and my interpretation is that a bolus dose of testosterone makes you quit trying to impress people by virtue signaling because you DGAF what they think of you anymore. This lines up pretty well with my experience.

 

[Jim Marlowe]

You just abstracted the abstract! Even shorter.

 

[Seagal]

I skimmed the paper and my interpretation is that a bolus dose of testosterone makes you quit trying to impress people by virtue signaling because you DGAF what they think of you anymore. This lines up pretty well with my experience.

I didn't read the entire article. I thought who might be interested in it, would catch the relevant parts.
I wonder if the results are what the scientists expected.
DGAF, yes, or being a stable independent person.

"Further research is, however, needed to determine whether testosterone reduces lying per se, or only in situations where dishonest behavior may be considered “cheap”, dishonorable, and lower the subject’s feelings of pride and self-image."

It's just one study, however, an interesting setup. I'm so glad that it didn't turn out into an anti testosterone propaganda....

 

[Seagal]

I would love to see such an experiment with estradiol in women.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

I skimmed the paper and my interpretation is that a bolus dose of testosterone makes you quit trying to impress people by virtue signaling because you DGAF what they think of you anymore. This lines up pretty well with my experience.

This perfectly sums up behavior during COVID. There was overwhelming low T behavior on display.

 

[MarcoFL]

I would love to see such an experiment with estradiol in women.

My wife is on full HRT including T cypionate. She is very level headed and only cares about the more important things in life.

 

[granger]

This perfectly sums up behavior during COVID. There was overwhelming low T behavior on display.

uh? you mean everyone working towards a goal vs being selfish? which is better? how does society become more civil? everyone going to front of the line cause they feel like it?

the "I do what i want when i want" sounds a bit like a toddler no?

at any rate, excess deaths are 15% higher at the moment during this covid wave(despite low acute covid deaths).. weirdly enough 2 heart attacks in teh family 3-4 months after infection this winter, 2 last winter.... these arent just old people, cancers are up in children(plenty of papers on the actual mechanisms covid causes various cancers, after nurse sister who works in pediatrics was like "this is crazy so much kids cancer last 2 years", so i looked into it, and appears now that its not just less diagnosing 3 years ago), respiratory issues with kids born to moms who got covid while pregnant. heck even ~50% of children get abnormal EKG or elevated tropanan levels post infection ie heart damage... unlike the flu that you catch once every 5-7 years kids are getting covid 2 times a year...

anyway, its a philosophy debate is it ok to shorten peoples lives because you want to go on your vacation because "its just a cold".

be a high T stoic, it takes higher evolved, higher intellect humans to not do things impulsively and live in large society civilly. interesting enough (yes vax debate is another story), folks who didnt get vaccinated were more likely to crash their cars(this is from insurance company statistics when were thinking to possibly raise rates on unvaxed, which of course would of been a bit crazy).


I will leave with this, depending on how far you are in your beliefs... why did china spend millions trying to get americans not to worry about covid? lead sponsor of FAR RIGHT news EPOC TIMES is chinese. why did china loose TRILLIONS and TRILLIONS to protect its most valuable resource, its people? they def studied the virus or similar the longest, did they not? It was not for control purposes locking down china, if anything it was a net loss for control.. so pretty clearly they know long term consequences and is much more talked about vs america where MSM is sponsored by companies who dont want u to think about covid so you spend more $$$.. If you are afraid of vaccine spike proteins, remember infections give you MORE spike proteins for longer, aswell as get more antibodies from infection, unfortunately many of antibodies for covid are what cause the damage... part of why obese people keep antibodies longer IMO as teh body has a harder time removing the "bad" antibodies.. bit off topic lol, but do encourage folks to actually read some papers and will help explain why DRs dont want people to keep catching covid, similar to why they dont want folks to catch flu as even the flu gives young men carditis ~48%, but again get the flu FAR less often, there is a reason risk of all cause mortality goes up after each and every infection, and from personal experience of how many strokes and heart attacks in past 18 months esp within that magic window of 3-6 months after covid it doesn't seem to be small risk, sure perhaps they would of eventually had a heart attack but 10-15 years later... it will be in the next 5 or more years before we even start to get an idea of the fallout from this virus, maybe not until the 3yo are 30yo... so in the interim i encourage folks to live life, but also take reasonable precautions to not contract or spread.

if it was a catch it once and ur good type of virus that would be one thing, but its not. more infections, more spike protein = more inflammation, heart damage kidney liver damage and infact even brain damage as covid actually infects neurons and why folks get brain fog and loss of smell, its not inflammation as they once thought.

anyone can inject T and be reckless like a teenager, that is not difficult, mind fullness being stoic is harder though as you regulate impulsive instincts. ie freddie mercury and AIDS. ITs MUCH easier to forget covid is a thing and that its over, thats easy, its harder to mindful. anyway, it will take a few more years when folks see more and more friends have weird shit happen and realize, wait, maybe, just maybe its viral related. I know some folks like to blame a vaccine with measured dose of spike proteins 3-4 years ago, and to blame someone (trump for his warp speed vax for example) than take accountability that its far more likely from repeat infection of covid, and only people can really make a difference. its just so funny people who have no idea, say oh phizer made an extra 35 billion the year vax came out therefore teh reason for XYZ, the american fed gov gives away several BILLION EVERYDAY (ie 100s of billions per year), JUST in INTEREST on their debt, and then pay more interest on the debt the interest causes.... be more concerned who is getting THAT money as its far FAR more and JUST growing and essentially disappearing americas wealth into powerful peoples bank accounts.. than an extra 35 billion, thats basically nothing on a global scale... thats not to say no corruption, but we need to be realistic in what governments will do for what $ as that extra 35 billion was over every country not just USA. ie gov isnt going to shut economy down spend billions more just so phizer gets MAYBE 10bil from USA.. esp at the time the amount saved just on hospitals because of vax it would of been worth far far more nevermind allowing things to reopen without complete hospital collapse.

 

[BigTex]

Here is another interesting study about testosterone and behavior.

Introduction​

The effect of testosterone (T) on behavior, and in particular aggression, has received considerable attention over the last decade [1], [2], [3], [4]. This has been prompted by several developments. Firstly, the high-profile media coverage of incidents of ‘steroid rage’ seemingly associated with the abuse by strength athletes of androgenic–anabolic steroids (AAS) [5].​

Exogenous testosterone, aggression, and mood in eugonadal and hypogonadal men

To investigate (1) the effects of exogenous testosterone (T) on self- and partner-reported aggression and mood and (2) the role of trait impulsivity i…

www.sciencedirect.com

No significant changes in aggression or mood levels were found in the eugonadal-treated group. Significant reductions in negative mood (tension, anger, and fatigue) followed by an increase in vigor were found in response to T treatment in the hypogonadal group. These results demonstrate that inability to control one's behavior when such control is required by a particular situation (impulsivity) was found to significantly predict levels of aggression over and above age and T level. These data do not support the hypothesis that supraphysiological levels of T (within this range) lead to an increase in self- and partner-reported aggression or mood disturbances.​

 

[granger]

Here is another interesting study about testosterone and behavior.

Introduction​

The effect of testosterone (T) on behavior, and in particular aggression, has received considerable attention over the last decade [1], [2], [3], [4]. This has been prompted by several developments. Firstly, the high-profile media coverage of incidents of ‘steroid rage’ seemingly associated with the abuse by strength athletes of androgenic–anabolic steroids (AAS) [5].​

Exogenous testosterone, aggression, and mood in eugonadal and hypogonadal men

To investigate (1) the effects of exogenous testosterone (T) on self- and partner-reported aggression and mood and (2) the role of trait impulsivity i…

www.sciencedirect.com

No significant changes in aggression or mood levels were found in the eugonadal-treated group. Significant reductions in negative mood (tension, anger, and fatigue) followed by an increase in vigor were found in response to T treatment in the hypogonadal group. These results demonstrate that inability to control one's behavior when such control is required by a particular situation (impulsivity) was found to significantly predict levels of aggression over and above age and T level. These data do not support the hypothesis that supraphysiological levels of T (within this range) lead to an increase in self- and partner-reported aggression or mood disturbances.​

I think eventually they will work this out as alot of studies show varying things.. which to me means they aren't looking at everything.. ie DHT conversion, estrogen, cortisol levels. etc etc.

basically this article is going to be used to show there is no differences between male and female brains, and that everything is learned as far as behavioural differences. which I think most people have an opinion on.

 

[Cataceous]

Here is another interesting study about testosterone and behavior.
...

Here's an old abstract that I found interesting because it tries to link aggression to the combination of high testosterone and low serotonin. It would be interesting to know if there has been followup work supporting the proposition.

Aggression: the testosterone-serotonin link - PubMed

The relevance of central neurotransmission to aggressive and impulsive behavior has become more evident due to extensive research in humans and animals. Among other findings, there are abundant data relating low serotonergic activity--as measured by low cerebrospinal fluid 5-hydroxyindolacetic...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Seagal]

Here's an old abstract that I found interesting because it tries to link aggression to the combination of high testosterone and low serotonin. It would be interesting to know if there has been followup work supporting the proposition.

Aggression: the testosterone-serotonin link - PubMed

The relevance of central neurotransmission to aggressive and impulsive behavior has become more evident due to extensive research in humans and animals. Among other findings, there are abundant data relating low serotonergic activity--as measured by low cerebrospinal fluid 5-hydroxyindolacetic...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"It seems that testosterone modulates serotonergic receptor activity in a way that directly affects aggression, fear and anxiety."
That's also interesting because some men experience unusual anxiety on TRT.

 

[MarcoFL]

My neighbor just told me I should go on a testosterone suppressor to avoid prostate issues given I am 61 now. I just do not know how people can stay out of the sun not eat anything but plants, have wrinkles like she is 20 years older and think that is healthy?

 

[BigTex]

Here's an old abstract that I found interesting because it tries to link aggression to the combination of high testosterone and low serotonin. It would be interesting to know if there has been followup work supporting the proposition.

Aggression: the testosterone-serotonin link - PubMed

The relevance of central neurotransmission to aggressive and impulsive behavior has become more evident due to extensive research in humans and animals. Among other findings, there are abundant data relating low serotonergic activity--as measured by low cerebrospinal fluid 5-hydroxyindolacetic...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I have been around 1000's of guys on huge doses and they are all very laid back people. I think this "roid rage stuff was just another attempt to give a black eye to steroid users. They have tried to blame a few murders by athletes on steroids like WWE superstar Chris Benoit, who murdered his wife in 2007 and then committed suicide. Doctors later found out he had suffered from several concussions and never been treated, in fact doctors said it was chronic traumatic encephalopathy, a degenerative condition typically found in boxers. The Georgia Bureau of Investigation did found Xanax and Hydrocodone in his blood. But it was easier for our media to blame his steroid use.

What I have seen with substances of all types is kind of like with alcohol, if you are an asshole, drinking will just make you a bigger asshole. Most athletes are aggressive people to begin with. This is what it takes to be in a competitive environment and win.

Myself, I am a very quiet laid back person who has the patients of Jobe. But when I take too much, I blow up like a bomb. I am exactly the same way using steroids. It would be awfully easy to blame that on steroids when it is actually my normal behavior. How many times have I seen drunks blame their behavior on the alcohol when they act the same after they sober up. I think with both substance, they just un-inhibit the real person. There are no documented studies that prove “roid rage” is a real thing caused by anabolic steroids. The studies available only prove that people who are already mentally unstable or extremely aggressive will only lean more that way. So if you are an asshole, you are going to be an asshole of steroids.

 

[BigTex]

"It seems that testosterone modulates serotonergic receptor activity in a way that directly affects aggression, fear and anxiety."
That's also interesting because some men experience unusual anxiety on TRT.

Did you guys read the full study?


Here is the conclusion:

Conclusions​

Biological influences are not the only pathway leading to individual differences in personality dimensions, behavior, and psychopathology. Complex traits are most likely generated by a complete interaction of environmental and experiential factors with a number of biological factors, among which testosterone and serotonin play a major role. Recent genetic studies on5-HT receptors, transporters, and modifying enzymes have shown that although these substances have only a modest impact, they affect many developmental processes throughout ontogeny as well as compensatory mechanisms.​

​

The therapeutic application of these findings includes the use of agents that increase​

5-HT, either by facilitating its release such as fenfluramine or by blocking its reuptake by the various selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors [39].Chemical castration by antiandrogenic agents, although inefficient for treating general aggression, is used for the treatment of paraphilic sex offenders[40].​

​

It is becoming increasingly evident that many neurotransmitters and hormones are expressed at early periods of neural development and it is likely that it is likely that they participate in the structural organization of the nervous system. A major challenge is therefore the identification of specific neural mechanisms that underlie aggressiveness and impulsivity for the purpose of early identification, prevention and the treatment of individuals who are prone to violent acts.​

I am not so sure they have determined any link to aggressive activity only suspect testosterone and serotonin may play a role. I have had large doses of testosterone and never felt the need to rape a woman and have always treated women respectfully. I have also never had and though about committing violent acts. While I am sure there are "specific neural mechanisms involved in guys who commit violent acts, I am not so sure testosterone is the cause of it. It all goes back to if you are a asshole, testosterone is just going to make you and asshole on steroids. I believe strongly that this all falls on people who can not understand the difference between right and wrong which happens in the frontal lobe of the brain. These people have psychological disorders and will act the same whether they are drunk, high or using testosterone. People make a lot of excuses and blame testosterone for a lot of things that have nothing to do with testosterone. They problem is psychological and we have doctors that deal in this area.

Trust me guys, I have also been around some violent gangsters in my life running a very popular night clubs in NYC. None of them was using testosterone. How a guy gets to the point that human life means nothing I just don't know. Which come first, the chicken or the egg? If you have psychological problem using testosterone did not cause them. They were already there and need to be treated.

 

[Cataceous]

... How a guy gets to the point that human life means nothing I just don't know. Which come first, the chicken or the egg? ...

I ponder that too as I watch shows like The First 48. Perhaps having a rough childhood alters the brain and/or its hormonal landscape in ways that dramatically reduce empathy. Having seen some striking changes accompanying regular low doses of oxytocin I'll speculate that this system is involved.

 

[Seagal]

I have been around 1000's of guys on huge doses and they are all very laid back people. I think this "roid rage stuff was just another attempt to give a black eye to steroid users. They have tried to blame a few murders by athletes on steroids like WWE superstar Chris Benoit, who murdered his wife in 2007 and then committed suicide. Doctors later found out he had suffered from several concussions and never been treated, in fact doctors said it was chronic traumatic encephalopathy, a degenerative condition typically found in boxers. The Georgia Bureau of Investigation did found Xanax and Hydrocodone in his blood. But it was easier for our media to blame his steroid use.

What I have seen with substances of all types is kind of like with alcohol, if you are an asshole, drinking will just make you a bigger asshole. Most athletes are aggressive people to begin with. This is what it takes to be in a competitive environment and win.

Myself, I am a very quiet laid back person who has the patients of Jobe. But when I take too much, I blow up like a bomb. I am exactly the same way using steroids. It would be awfully easy to blame that on steroids when it is actually my normal behavior. How many times have I seen drunks blame their behavior on the alcohol when they act the same after they sober up. I think with both substance, they just un-inhibit the real person. There are no documented studies that prove “roid rage” is a real thing caused by anabolic steroids. The studies available only prove that people who are already mentally unstable or extremely aggressive will only lean more that way. So if you are an asshole, you are going to be an asshole of steroids.

Didn't read the whole article. Didn't expect much of it.
@BigTex I didn't understand the title of the article in the sense that testosterone is linked to abnormal aggression or roid rage.
What changes in the brain when a person goes from eugonadal to hypogonadal? My I idea was that "having no drive" and "being more assertive (aggressive)" lie on a spectrum controlled by the same parameters. That's what I'm interested in.

However, i believe that it is possible that a cocktail of certain PEDs can cause imbalances in the brain in some individuals which can manifest in different psychiatric ways. I would even go further... not all otherwise healthy males can tolerate exogenous super superphysiological doses of testosterone without neurological/psychological side effects.

 

[BigTex]

As I have said quite a few times, this link to aggressive behavior has never been shown. In fact, I remember a study done by an insurance company where they told both groups anabolic steroids made people more aggressive and the control group was the only group saying they felt more aggressive. The group actually given steroids did not feel any change. I honestly think we are expecting anabolic steroids to do more for us and blame it for a lot of our problem not being solved. It has been estimated that 1 in 3 people will experience the placebo effect and it is show that this effect can be as high as 35%.

 

[BigTex]

I ponder that too as I watch shows like The First 48. Perhaps having a rough childhood alters the brain and/or its hormonal landscape in ways that dramatically reduce empathy. Having seen some striking changes accompanying regular low doses of oxytocin I'll speculate that this system is involved.

I know a whole lot of people from very poor, violent circumstances as a child, yet they spent their adult life as non-violent people who held human life high. There are definitely some horrible things going on in the brain of a sociopath. But I doubt testosterone has a whole lot to do with it. This seems to be a huge issue going on in the frontal lobe where normal people can distinguish between right and wrong.