Testing HRT-Values (E3.5D SQ)

[new_man]

4 weeks ago my doc and I introduced Testosterone Injection. I started with E5D 80mg but we adjusted that to E3.5D 50mg. The beginning wasn't nice because of my super-sensitivitiy, but it turned out really nice. Right now we are introducing HCG 200 iu (I prefer to start lower than higher). After 4 weeks with the same protocol, we will be doing some tests to make sure that everything is in range and to fine tune the protocol. By the way: I Inject Testosterone monday evening and friday morning. Here are my questions about this:
1. When should I inject the HCG? 200 iu each in the morning of thursday and sunday?
2. After 4 weeks with the same protocol. Should we test the hormones on thursday morning before HCG?

I have read a lot about testing. But I couldn't find out how to test on E3.5D and with HCG. Thanks in advance!

 

[ERO]

Almost all of us inject HCG the same day as Test. No need to make it more complex than that.

To test, just do your blood draw on the day of your injection but BEFORE you inject. So if you were doing Monday PM and Friday AM, do your blood draw on Monday morning or mid-day before you inject.

 

[new_man]

Almost all of us inject HCG the same day as Test. No need to make it more complex than that.

To test, just do your blood draw on the day of your injection but BEFORE you inject. So if you were doing Monday PM and Friday AM, do your blood draw on Monday morning or mid-day before you inject.

Do u mix it with HCG? But if you mix it then it is not possible to inject it in the morning twice a week since one injection is in the morning and one in the evening (E3.5D). And some men notice some nice benefits when they take it in the morning according to Dr. Chrisler.

I have heard that it is not good to test on the same day as you inject since you ain't experience this low value since you would usually inject on that day! But I guess with E3.5D it doens't matter a lot since the levels don't change a lot.

Who is mixing HCG and T in the same syringe? I guess that's not possible for me to do because I preload my syringes from 1 ampulle every 14 days.

 

[ERO]

I do not mix HCG and Test in the same syringe but I believe Nelson does, or has in the past.

 

[Vince]

I inject my t and HCG every 3 1/2 days. I inject both T and HCG at the same time, different syringes. You should do labs on injection day before you injected.

 

[new_man]

@ERO and Vince: Why don't you mix it? It would be less effort...
I guess there isn't any scientific research about mixing waterbased and oilbased stuff together or if there is, then not a lot..

 

[new_man]

You should do labs on injection day before you injected.

I hear that from most people. Dr Chrisler says => NEVER do labs on a testosterone injection day. It is about a state where you are never in since it is the injection day and this makes a lot of sense. But when injecting E3.5D the level must be very constant I guess and it doesn't matter on injection day or a day prior. Some other opinions?

I'm a little bit confused with HCG and testing. I could take HCG on monday, wednesday and friday morning each 150iu (instead of 200iu twice a weak) and then maybe raise those values after the test in one month. So, I'm gonna do on friday morning the test prior the hcg and testosterone shot? -does this make sense? I guess I should never skip a HCG day because of testing, right?[FONT=Comic Sans MS, sans-serif][FONT=Comic Sans MS, sans-serif][/FONT][/FONT]

 

[ERO]

You are supposed to test BEFORE the injection on your injection day to get your trough level. That is what probably 95+% of the guys on this site are doing Dr. C is likely saying not to test on injection days AFTER you inject.

You are WAY over complicating this whole issue. Again, 95+% of the guys here inject Test and HCG on the same day. Why make a science project out of it when nobody else is?

 

[CoastWatcher]

You are supposed to test BEFORE the injection on your injection day to get your trough level. That is what probably 95+% of the guys on this site are doing Dr. C is likely saying not to test on injection days AFTER you inject.

You are WAY over complicating this whole issue. Again, 95+% of the guys here inject Test and HCG on the same day. Why make a science project out of it when nobody else is?

Please read and refer back to this particular post. And relax...TRT is the classic marathon, not a sprint. You will drive yourself crazy if you don't.

 

[new_man]

You are supposed to test BEFORE the injection on your injection day to get your trough level.

Before is standard. Nobody normal tests right after taking the supplement or injection. We both know that it is BEFORE. (You can always correct me when I'm wrong.)

Dr. C is likely saying not to test on injection days AFTER you inject.

No. He was never talking about the AFTER since nobody does the Test after the injection. Have you read his book? Maybe I got it wrong, but I don't think so. He was talking about the injection day and that's always BEFORE (in my eyes).
=> I didn't write it clear or you got me totally wrong.

You are WAY over complicating this whole issue. Again, 95+% of the guys here inject Test and HCG on the same day. Why make a science project out of it when nobody else is?

That's a really good point! Absolutely! Why did I ask and why do I want to know it exactly? Because I want to do it right and I am beeing very careful since this is a very dangerous topic! There are a lot of people they don't make a science project and they are just doing it based on what they feel is good for them (I'm talking about people outside EM). Some of them are ending with some bitch tits or whatever! Since this topic is new for me (I don't have 10 y experience or so) I want to be sure enough. I had a doctor who didn't do a science project while he treated me... he wasn't making things complicated, he just did something and he didn't even test it right. He did things that wasn't healthy for me! So please don't tell me things that I should interprete like this=> just doing something and not being sure about it!

Another thing => I like the fine tuning. Dr. Chrisler does it too and I like his book a lot. I believe that it is possible to improve health & well beeing with little changes / modifications. You can call me whatever you want. I'm a perfectionist. But thanks for your first two posts.

 

[Vince]

@ERO and Vince: Why don't you mix it? It would be less effort...
I guess there isn't any scientific research about mixing waterbased and oilbased stuff together or if there is, then not a lot..

It's too hard to fit both in the same syringe. But when I first started TRT, I did put both in the same syringe.

 

[new_man]

Thank you Vince a lot!
---------
What I don't get, why is it normal to make the test => throug? Especially on Injection day (of course before)?
Then you just have values where you almost never have because you are gonna inject a few minutes/hours later another injection. Wouldn't it make more sense to make the test earlier? I'm not talking about E3.5D right now. I'm talking about E5D or E7D or even longer periods. I guess with E3.5D it doesn't mater a lot if the test is done one day earlier or not since the levels are always really stable.

Example: Somebody injects E7D IM.

The values spike on the second and third day with values:
E2:40
T:1400

After the second and third day the values decrease.
5. Day:
E2:35
T:1100

7. Day:
E2: 27
T: 750

Since it is normal to test @ throug, there are low values that the person wouldn't have normally (because he is gonna inject a few minutes later) and average. E2 looks good on day 7 but was maybe too high before...Or someone adds more Testosterone since the test said it is on D7 just 750. Now, if he would add more testosterone, then he would have on the second or third day values of testosterone around 1700 which is never normal for a very healthy young male and E2 would even raise higher. Hope somebody gets what I want to say.

It is a very interesting topic for me and I am not looking for an answer like => "don't think too much" which I would prefer not to see in this thread. I like to go deep into a topic, if you don't like that, please don't write anything.

 

[ERO]

Dr. Saya posts on here fairly often. He can explain it in detail if he sees this thread.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

You are "living" wherever your levels are (on ANY given day). The only time you would absolutely NOT want to test is if you missed an injection or temporarily changed your regimen (due to travel, illness, etc) so that your results are NOT going to reflect your typical regimen.

It is customary to check labs on day of injection, BEFORE the injection...however, this is more a remnant from the "older" regimens of T cyp q1-2weeks. Indeed the goal of more frequent injections is to minimize/eliminate fluctuations in levels (peak and trough), so the timing of labs becomes less and less relevant when you get down to BIW -> TIW -> EOD -> DAILY injections (to the extreme of timing being COMPLETELY irrelevant with daily injections). I still recommend labs on the day of injection, before injection, but evaluate the levels according to the timing and frequency of injection regardless. The key is KNOWING the timing for appropriate evaluation. If you want to, for all intents and purposes, eliminate your question/angst about lab timing - get down to an EOD or daily injection schedule and go from there.

Hope this helps.

 

[new_man]

Dr Saya, thank you so much! This helps a lot.
This is another reason for me why it was good that I went from E5D to E3.5D! (The main reason => I feel more stable/balanced)!