Sustanon vs Cyp and others

[maxadvance]

Just a personal observation, but last few months I've been injecting 180mg Sust a week in 2 pins. Versus Cypionate for the year and a half prior. Man, what an improvement it is over the past protocol. Anyone that says all delivery versions of Test are the same just a different ester delivering the same med with the same result clearly don't speak from experience and are just trying to be an internet expert.

To me, there must be something with 4 or 5 delivery systems in a single shot hitting multiple receptors that creates a more consistent and efficient result. I currently have zero lag in my libido, constant energy excellent mental focus and for the first time I am completely satisfied with my decision to start TRT. I had a hard time admitting to myself that maybe TRT was not a great decision. Now, I totally do, and because of that I move forward through life with a greater confidence. That is all.

 

[Sean Mosher]

Interesting...........thanks for sharing this.
Would be cool if you could share after maybe 6 months and then a year to see if it keeps up.
I never hear much feedback at all about proprionate or sustanon.

 

[rhino5169]

Is this legit with an rx or from underground?
how long until you noticed a difference?

 

[ERO]

I thought that I had tried everything but I have not tried this. I need to give it a go, although with basement level SHBG its likely that my results (if any) will be well below yours. Never know until you try, though.

 

[Systemlord]

Sounds like your body for whatever reason prefers Sustanon vs Cyp, this just goes to show you there's so much we just don't understand. Perhaps your chemistry prefers slower acting esters vs slightly faster acting, I'm sure one day we'll find out why.

 

[madman]

Just a personal observation, but last few months I've been injecting 180mg Sust a week in 2 pins. Versus Cypionate for the year and a half prior. Man, what an improvement it is over the past protocol. Anyone that says all delivery versions of Test are the same just a different ester delivering the same med with the same result clearly don't speak from experience and are just trying to be an internet expert.

To me, there must be something with 4 or 5 delivery systems in a single shot hitting multiple receptors that creates a more consistent and efficient result. I currently have zero lag in my libido, constant energy excellent mental focus and for the first time I am completely satisfied with my decision to start TRT. I had a hard time admitting to myself that maybe TRT was not a great decision. Now, I totally do, and because of that I move forward through life with a greater confidence. That is all.

From reading some of your previous posts I believe you were injecting 100mg (cypionate) every 3.5 days (200mg cypionate/week minus the ester is 138mg testosterone) and recently you have switched to 90mg (sustanon) every 3.5 days (180mg sustanon/week minus the ester is roughly 135mg testosterone) so at least we know first and foremost you are injecting roughly the same dose of testosterone weekly as eliminating this variable is critical to whether your overall weekly dose of testosterone was increased or decreased. Have you compared overall blood work from your cypionate injection protocol to your sustanon protocol (total t/free t/estradiol/shbg/dht) to see if there is a difference in levels? You say you feel much better overall using the sustanon and no one is going to say you are not experiencing benefits due to switching from a single ester to a multi-ester. Regarding testosterone whether cypionate or sustanon(propionate/phenylpropionate/isocaproate/decanoate) once the oily depot is released from the injection site (whether faster/slower) and enters the bloodstream where the ester is cleaved off all that is left is testosterone regardless of the ester used. You may very well be benefiting from the various ester release rates but as far as the effects of testosterones actions on the AR (androgen receptor) sustanon let alone any multi-ester in the end is just testosterone. As far as esters are concerned half life of the ester (length) is only one variable regarding the release of the oily depot as injection site and injection volume also play a role.http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/281/1/93.long.


As far as people that "just do not speak from experience and are just trying to be an internet expert" I disagree as there are people who have personally used different compounds whether testosterone/aas for either personal reasons or when manipulating different protocols for trt with various testosterone esters and some of these people also spend time studying the literature regarding testosterone to try and develop a better understanding of the hormone and its functions. Regarding the pharmacology of testosterone preparations if you look over (pg.424) you will see that regarding multi-esters .It is stated that these combinations are used following the postulate that these so called the short acting testosterone ester is the effective testosterone substitution during the first days of treatment and the so called long acting testosterone warrants effective substitution for the end of injection interval. This assumption is not supported by the pharmacokinetic parameters of individual testosterone esters as both propionate and enanthate cause highest testosterone serum concentrations shortly (how many internet gurus really know that?) after injection and that adding propionate to enanthate only increases the initial undesired testosterone peak and worsen the pharmacokinetic profile that ideally should follow zero order kinetics.


Finally injection of a multi-ester produces a much wider fluctuation of testosterone serum concentrations than a single ester. In the end a single ester alone (enanthate) produces a more favourable pharmacokinetic profile in comparison to injections of a multi-ester (enanthate/propionate) in comparable doses and that for the treatment of male hypogonadism there is no advantage in combining the available short and long acting esters. You may very well feel better overall due to using a multi-ester combination but is it truly due to the 4 different esters of sustanon as you say? Understand that there are others whom have used multi-esters and experienced the opposite of what you have. It is always good to keep an open mind and view from different perspectives.

Here is the article scroll down to page 424 https://www.researchgate.net/profil...Pharmacology-of-testosterone-preparations.pdf (when clicking on this link choose blue bar in upper right hand corner Download full-text PDF)

 

[rhino5169]

Just a note -
Madman, I really love your posts, very informative - WHEN I can read them. I give up trying to decipher the giant run on sentence. Im sorry man, im not trying to be a ****wad, I just cant read that but I really want to.
fwiw

 

[FeelingLost]

I will second rhino's comment. Madman I love reading your posts they are very informative and I trust your opinion but paragraph are your friend.
Walls of text suck remember we are not all dialed in so brain fog is still present and I just hate loosing my place a 1/4 way in.

 

[Saxon]

Sust is a wierd combination of test esters: Here is the plot for 180mg of Sust injected once weekly. This is not the stuff of stable levels but I agree, every is different.

https://imgur.com/a/ySTao

 

[CoastWatcher]

Sust is a wierd combination of test esters: Here is the plot for 180mg of Sust injected once weekly. This is not the stuff of stable levels but I agree, every is different.

https://imgur.com/a/ySTao

I'd seen this, or something very similar, within the past year and wondered how in the world anyone could reach stability with T-Sust...until I remembered that it's TRT where individual response always surprise.

 

[Saxon]

It's a pain in the ass to plot and looks like shit on paper but people love it. I'm so dialed in right now I don't want to change anything but as I age and if I need to adjust, I'll maybe try Sust even though it looks so weird.

Just looks like it would be a roller coaster.

 

[maxadvance]

Keep in mind, and Eros know this, I have pretty low shbg, around 14-18 on recent measurements. I definitely respond to TRT but in the past the swings were the most consistent part of my protocol, and that's not good. This regimen is something that levels out my bodies response, and not just levels it but levels it at a peak response.

And Madman, bless your heart. I got tired of references to studies of chinese bodysurfers on a coffee and yogurt diet that should explain my own bodies responses. And then have some internet troll with time on their hands but zero experience of the protocol being discussed dismiss someones real life experience with stats and mistranslated studies. I'm good, and I'm still on the journey.

 

[madman]

Keep in mind, and Eros know this, I have pretty low shbg, around 14-18 on recent measurements. I definitely respond to TRT but in the past the swings were the most consistent part of my protocol, and that's not good. This regimen is something that levels out my bodies response, and not just levels it but levels it at a peak response.

And Madman, bless your heart. I got tired of references to studies of chinese bodysurfers on a coffee and yogurt diet that should explain my own bodies responses. And then have some internet troll with time on their hands but zero experience of the protocol being discussed dismiss someones real life experience with stats and mistranslated studies. I'm good, and I'm still on the journey.

Post your blood work cyp protocol and sus protocol? I'm itchin' to get into this deeper!

 

[newguy128]

I was curious how this post would read after paragraphing same. I too was having a problem reading pretty much what amounts to 3 long paragraphs, to the extent I had to use the highlight feature to keep track of where I was while reading the post.

It's not the content of the post, just the way it was presented. Makes for a easier/better read. None of the post content was changed, except for capitalization and paragraphing below.

=====================================================================

OP: From reading some of your previous posts I believe you were injecting 100mg (Cypionate) every 3.5 days (200mg Cypionate/week minus the ester is 138mg testosterone). And recently you have switched to 90mg (Sustanon) every 3.5 days (180mg Sustanon/week minus the ester is roughly 135mg testosterone).

So at least we know first and foremost you are injecting roughly the same dose of testosterone weekly as eliminating this variable is critical to whether your overall weekly dose of testosterone was increased or decreased.

Have you compared overall blood work from your Cypionate injection protocol to your Sustanon protocol (total t/free t/estradiol/shbg/dht) to see if there is a difference in levels?

You say you feel much better overall using the Sustanon and no one is going to say you are not experiencing benefits due to switching from a single ester to a multi-ester.

Regarding testosterone, whether Cypionate or Sustanon (Propionate/Phenylpropionate/Isocaproate/Decanoate), once the oily depot is released from the injection site (whether faster/slower) and enters the bloodstream where the ester is cleaved off, all that is left is testosterone regardless of the ester used.

You may very well be benefiting from the various ester release rates, but as far as the effects of testosterone's actions on the AR (androgen receptor), Sustanon, let alone any multi-ester in the end is just testosterone.

As far as esters are concerned half life of the ester (length) is only one variable regarding the release of the oily depot as injection site and injection volume also play a role. http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/281/1/93.long.

As far as people that "just do not speak from experience and are just trying to be an internet expert".

I disagree as there are people who have personally used different compounds whether Testosterone/AAS for either personal reasons or when manipulating different protocols for TRT with various testosterone esters. And some of these people also spend time studying the literature regarding testosterone to try and develop a better understanding of the hormone and its functions.

Regarding the pharmacology of testosterone preparations if you look over (pg.424).

You will see that regarding multi-esters. It is stated that these combinations are used following the postulate that these so called short acting testosterone ester is the effective testosterone substitution during the first days of treatment. And the so called long acting testosterone warrants effective substitution for the end of injection interval.

This assumption is not supported by the pharmacokinetic parameters of individual testosterone esters as both Propionate and Enanthate cause highest testosterone serum concentrations shortly (how many internet gurus really know that?) after injection. And that adding Propionate to Enanthate only increases the initial undesired testosterone peak and worsen the pharmacokinetic profile that ideally should follow zero order kinetics.

Finally, injection of a multi-ester produces a much wider fluctuation of testosterone serum concentrations than a single ester. In the end a single ester alone (Enanthate) produces a more favorable pharmacokinetic profile, in comparison to injections of a multi-ester (Enanthate/Propionate) in comparable doses.

And that for the treatment of male hypogonadism there is no advantage in combining the available short and long acting esters. You may very well feel better overall due to using a multi-ester combination, but is it truly due to the 4 different esters of Sustanon as you say?

Understand that there are others whom have used multi-esters and experienced the opposite of what you have. It is always good to keep an open mind and view from different perspectives.

Here is the article scroll down to page 424 https://www.researchgate.net/profile...eparations.pdf (when clicking on this link choose blue bar in upper right hand corner Download full-text PDF).

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