SubQ - Testostrone compounded with Anastrozole

[TRTguy]

I wanted to post and ask if anyone is doing Testosterone compounded with Anastrozole subcutaneously?

I've read some of Dr. John Crisler's posts that make me want to give it a try but the fact that it is compounded with Anastrozole led me to this post to see if I could get more info from the community.

I really don't like the shot in the rear, smarts all week. But I'm doing hcg 2x a week subq and its great.

Test baseline around 300 total, 55 free. Clomid doubled that to 600 total and 135 free but then started not working as well so went looking for another option at a Testosterone clinic.

Age:36
Meds:
1x /wk Testosterone Cypionate + Anastrozole compounded, 0.75cc
2x/wk Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), 50 iu

What are thoughts on this protocol? Enough to get me to 1000 total test?

 

[MarkM]

Not really enough information to make an intelligent observation where that protocol is enough to get you to 1,000 Total Test. Total Test is just a number and is meaningless against what really matters and that is your Free T. While it is only a fraction of your Total T it is what matters and what does all the heavy lifting.

Once per week injections typically work if one has high SHBG and don't work well for those with low SHBG. What is your SHBG?

Also, I would not advocate anyone taking any substance or compound which is a combination of testosterone and anastrozole. What is our E2?

When you chase a number like "1000 Total Test" if typically doesn't work in one's best interest. Instead, shoot for feeling your best. Many individuals can achieve 1000 Total Test and feel terrible.

Testosterone Clinics, or T Mills, don;t typically do anyone much good. Instead of individualizing a protocol for each person they tend to put everyone on the same protocol.
There are several other places to inject IM other than the rear end. I and others use the outer quad (Vastus Lateralis), deltoid, and VG (Ventrogluteal) for shallow intra-muscular injections. You are probably using a large gauge needle that is 1 1/2" long. We call those harpoons around here. There are much better syringe/needles to use that make the injection painless.

We really just need more information to point you in the right direction. Can you provide the following with their result with ranges?

Total T
Free T
SHBG
Estradiol Sensitive

 

[TRTguy]

Thanks for the writeup Mark, appreciate the detail.

Here is the baseline, before clomid:
359 Total T
56 Free T
17 Estradiol Sensitive
didn't do SHBG

This was a second panel I did because my PCP didn't like the first one where everything came in a little lower.

Clomid 25mg 3x/wk boosted it to these numbers:
619 Total T
136 Free T
19 Estradiol Sensitive
didn't do SHBG

Exactly 1 month it I had what I describe as the best I ever felt - thinking very clear and quickly. Plenty of energy but not jittery or anything. Was great, then the effects tanked.

I was using the 23G x 1.5". I did switch to 23G x 1" this week which was much better, but still feel Monday's injection location today.

Im nervous to do VG because I don't seem to have much meat there. Outer quad is interesting, what size needle should I use there?

Still don't know if 0.75cc test + 50x2 hcg a week will get me back up since I've discontinued the clomid. Also wondering if I should request going just hcg and eliminating the test/ana and IM all together.

Last thing, if you don't recommend T mills who do you suggest working with?

Looking forward to getting this sorted, thanks again.

 

[MarkM]

Most of us here use an insulin syringe/needle from 26 g to 29 g 1/2". Some use smaller, 30 to 31 g, but I don't recommend them. I personally use 28 g and 29 g insulin syringes with 1/2" permanent needles. I draw from them and inject with the same needle. I inject in all three locations in above post with those needles.

Clomid is more of a short term fix for low T and testosterone for a longer term solution.

You'll need to have your SHBG tested because it is one of the most important things to know and understand when establishing a testosterone replacement therapy. I see you have the right Estradiol test. Most people don't get the Sensitive test for men and end up with the Roche ECLIA methodology test for women.

You should contact Defy Medical or Prime Body. Both are sponsors here of the forum and both always have representatives on the forum as well. Many of our forum members use one of them.

Defy Medical Centers

Primebody Hormone Replacement Therapy

 

[TRTguy]

Wow, so 28G x 0.5" in the Outer quad does the trick. I'll give that a try, thanks for all the help.

 

[MarkM]

Yes it sure does.

 

[Deleted member 16042]

The title of your thread is SubQ... SubQ works for many guys. Does for me with 5/16" 30g needle, grapeseed oil carrier for T cyp, same needle I use with HCG. If you are using cottonseed oil carrier, 27 or 28g is the going thing. I inject in belly around umbilicus, love handle areas and vary locations all over glutes/buttocks. I pull up a little skin and inject true SubQ, not into the pinched skin between fingers, but where skin is being lifted away from fat/muscle. Some guys get irritating lumps SubQ, never been a problem for me. You'll only know what works for you by trying.

No way I would mix T with anastrozole. If you have any problem with the anastrozole dosage you're screwed until you get new meds.

 

[TRTguy]

Thanks Blackhawk. For now I think I'm going to try the outer quad with a smaller G and length needle.

I hear you on the compounded T/ANA this is the first round, so bloodwork planned in 3 months. I'm not sure much modification to the anastrozole would be made till things are leveled out.

There was a massive differance in how I felt 1 month in, 2 months, and 3 months on clomid so assume same will happen with T/ANA+HCG... maybe that's wrong though.

 

[Deleted member 16042]

Agree, if you are currently taking T+anastrozole compounded, it can be a recipe for disaster. And if your E2 tanks, then you stick with it 90 days, you could be doing yourself a world of hurt that may be difficult to recover from. To get you started, searches on this forum for crashed estradiol and E2:

Search results for query: crashed E2
Search results for query: crashed estradiol

 

[Systemlord]

When you have Test and anastrozole compounded together you have no room to lower the anastrozole if the dose is too high and now the vial of testosterone is useless to you.

Testosterone clinics are usually bad news.

 

[Savage Hands]

I have been doing Test + AI for over a year now. for me it has been disastrous. I don't know if there is any science behind the practice of compounding the two together but from my experience it tanked my libido even though testing may not have reflected a very low result.

Originally test + AI pills was an awesome experience for sexual performance

APS started compounding the anastrozole with the cypionate. I called the Dr's office because of issues that I was having and they lowered the dose of AI but said that APS was in control of compounding and that this was the only way that they would supply the testosterone.
Things slightly improved but not much.... Started the Gene's stack and there was no improvement. Increased the dose of Cialis, no to little improvement.

Switched from weeking to split weekly doses and DISASTER .... Labs don't necessarily reflect a tanked E2 though.

Stopped using the compounded Cypionate/AI as supplied by ASP and started using Enanthate from a dude at the gym. BANG BANG BANG.. considering dropping the extra Cialis dose and i am definitely getting rid of testosterone clinic that I currently use.

I think there needs to be some science behind this practice of compounding an oral drug into an injectable form with testosterone. It may very well have something to do with the half life of anastrozole when injected and the continuous suppression of E2 rather than pulsed suppression.

from what i have read, oral anabolic steroids can have a similar effect when injected as the half life is different.

In short be aware of my problems with the initial compounding experience and use caution if you switch to multi weekly dosage If your test is compounded with an AI.

 

[lowe2sucks]

show me one single study where it states that blocking estradiol is beneficial for libido or male health... those clinics that prescribe AI from getgo don't know what they are doing they are hurting man who pays them money more than helping him it's nuts lol... When I was using steroids I could take 750mg testosterone without AI and feel great for a while.. after a while I would need to reduce dosage but if I would take AI I would feel much worse than low testosterone. AIs are a poison for human body. After you take AI you will not be able to feel as good with high e2 levels as you would be able if you never took AI..
too much AI can also kill you xD literally

 

[Deleted member 16042]

show me one single study where it states that... After you take AI you will not be able to feel as good with high e2 levels as you would be able if you never took AI..

I know your personal bias based on your own case of N=1. And I think it is justifiable. You have had some real trouble from anastrozole (and other aspects of how you approached your own TRT). However, just like you implore us to show you studies to support the other side of the argument, can you please show us research/studies to support your POV, beyond your own testimonial?

I agree there is rampant misuse of AI in TRT and that is a bad thing. However, many men benefit from anastrozole in their TRT regimen. It makes utter sense to me to attempt to adjust other variables to try to optimize before starting anstrozole.

 

[lowe2sucks]

maybe some men love it we are all different but I haven't seen not even 1 study that shows blocking estradiol is beneficial to male health
I have nothing wrong with anastrozole I had bad experience with it every time I took it.. even when my e2 was very high I still felt better with super high e2 as opposite to low e2. Do I feel great when my e2 is high? - No. Do I feel like shit everytime I block conversion to e2? - Absolutely yes. But that's just me. I think AIs are being overused there are so many folks who crashed their e2 and feel like crap since crash with very small if any improvement.

 

[madman]

maybe some men love it we are all different but I haven't seen not even 1 study that shows blocking estradiol is beneficial to male health
I have nothing wrong with anastrozole I had bad experience with it every time I took it.. even when my e2 was very high I still felt better with super high e2 as opposite to low e2. Do I feel great when my e2 is high? - No. Do I feel like shit everytime I block conversion to e2? - Absolutely yes. But that's just me. I think AIs are being overused there are so many folks who crashed their e2 and feel like crap since crash with very small if any improvement.

The purpose of using an aromatase inhibitor sensibly is not to completely block/suppress e2 to unhealthy levels.....we are just trying to minimize/reduce high e2 symptoms.

Use of an aromatase inhibitor would only become detrimental when too much is used resulting in suppressing estradiol too low as in an unhealthy range.

 

[TRTguy]

Thanks to all for the input - I had figured better to be on the safe side and avoid gyno completely with the risk of an imbalance that would not require surgery to correct.

I've got a lot to think about, and it is unsettling that there is such a strong consensus against the compounded AI. FYI it is APS that is supplying the material, I just didn't want to mention any suppliers or businesses to ensure I didn't violate forum rules.

 

[MarkM]

It really doesn't matter who the supplier/manufacturer is, it is just not a good idea to combine the testosterone and anastrozole together. It is always best to separate these two medications so that you can adjust your dose as needed. Although gyno is a concern for all of us on TRT, it is not very common.

 

[rafapark]

Most of us here use an insulin syringe/needle from 26 g to 29 g 1/2". Some use smaller, 30 to 31 g, but I don't recommend them. I personally use 28 g and 29 g insulin syringes with 1/2" permanent needles. I draw from them and inject with the same needle. I inject in all three locations in above post with those needles.

Clomid is more of a short term fix for low T and testosterone for a longer term solution.

You'll need to have your SHBG tested because it is one of the most important things to know and understand when establishing a testosterone replacement therapy. I see you have the right Estradiol test. Most people don't get the Sensitive test for men and end up with the Roche ECLIA methodology test for women.

You should contact Defy Medical or Prime Body. Both are sponsors here of the forum and both always have representatives on the forum as well. Many of our forum members use one of them.

Defy Medical Centers

Primebody Hormone Replacement Therapy

Sorry for stealing the post but how do you extract the T oil from the vial with a 28 or 29 g needle? I am trying to use a 27g x 1/2 inch needle and I can't seem to be able to extract the oil from the vial. I use a 20G to extract, then switch needles to the 27 to inject (shallow IM). I'd love to use only the 27g for both extraction and injection. What am I doing wrong? Thanks!

 

[fifty]

You get no oil or what? You can try injecting air into the vial equal to the amount you’re withdrawing. So inject ~.4ml air into the vial then draw out ~.4ml oil.

It might take 60-90 seconds

 

[TRTguy]

I did SubQ this week, zero pain. I used a 30G 1/2", syring only filled up 10IU at a time with full pull all the way down. Takes a little more time to get it in there, 4-5 full plunges.

Really hope SubQ works out so I can avoid the punched in the leg/butt feeling 1-3 days after!