Start up bad side effects... ?

[JayD]

After having tried daily cypionate shots a year ago, I had to bail as the nausea, anxiousness, insomnia but mainly headaches were unbearable. This was on 6mg daily cypionate and I only made it 4 days in. Just a really intense all incomposing experience that was like a nightmare towards the end.

I just recently gave TRT another go but again only lasted 4 days, but this time was taking 3mg a day. I feel much better today just not having it in my body.

Is it worth it trying 6mg EOD

It almost feels like poison this stuff.

Has anybody else had a similar experience, or heard a story like this

I really feel lost in the wilderness right now

I am mid 40's, good Heath, 78kg, Bodyfat around 20%, always had low T

 

[Fortunate]

After having tried daily cypionate shots a year ago, I had to bail as the nausea, anxiousness, insomnia but mainly headaches were unbearable. This was on 6mg daily cypionate and I only made it 4 days in. Just a really intense all incomposing experience that was like a nightmare towards the end.

I just recently gave TRT another go but again only lasted 4 days, but this time was taking 3mg a day. I feel much better today just not having it in my body.

Is it worth it trying 6mg EOD

It almost feels like poison this stuff.

Has anybody else had a similar experience, or heard a story like this

I really feel lost in the wilderness right now

I am mid 40's, good Heath, 78kg, Bodyfat around 20%, always had low T

There are a number of alternatives to injections you might consider: Natesto, Jatenzo, creams, hCG, etc. Assuming your labs and symptoms support doing TRT, I’d explore these options.

 

[JayD]

There are a number of alternatives to injections you might consider: Natesto, Jatenzo, creams, hCG, etc. Assuming your labs and symptoms support doing TRT, I’d explore these options.

Thanks for your reply

I tried cream and had the same experience, but the sides came after 2 weeks not 4 days. Always been sensitive to drugs alcohol etc.

Here in NZ we have access to cream, cypionate and enanthate. We also have HCG so maybe I should look into that.

I'm tempted to give the cypionate another go but at EOD intervals with say 8mg. But maybe i am just kicking the can down the Rd

 

[Fortunate]

Thanks for your reply

I tried cream and had the same experience, but the sides came after 2 weeks not 4 days. Always been sensitive to drugs alcohol etc.

Here in NZ we have access to cream, cypionate and enanthate. We also have HCG so maybe I should look into that.

I'm tempted to give the cypionate another go but at EOD intervals with say 8mg. But maybe i am just kicking the can down the Rd

Very reasonable dose. Please report back. It will also be helpful to know what symptoms you are trying to resolve with TRT and what your labs look like.

 

[JayD]

Very reasonable dose. Please report back. It will also be helpful to know what symptoms you are trying to resolve with TRT and what your labs look like.

Its really across the board from low sex drive, low energy, aches n pains, achy joints hips etc, poor recovery after anything physical. Poor mood grumpy low self esteem etc.

I also suffer from CFS but only mild as long as i eat sleep and live well and avoid stress bad food alcohol etc. Keto\low carb has been a god send.

I am also on an SSRI(Zoloft) for generalized anxiety disorder, and a blood test confirmed it drops my total Test 100 points(from 400 to 300). I wish i didn't need Zoloft but without it my Anxiety is unmanageable. I do a year on then a year off before my anxiety gets the better of me. I Have tried tons of natural herbs, supps etc but nothing works as well as zoloft for me unfortunately.

The one thing i noticed on Trt even though i was only on it afew days, my energy was great and my aches n pains were completely gone. Its just a shame the sides were so intense and im no snowflake.

I currenty take 15mg zinc, 6mg boron, 5000iu Vit D, Magnesium and a multi vit per day. Diet is clean keto/low carb with a cheat meal once a week.

These are my Bloods from afew weeks ago:

Free Testosterone:240 pmol/L ( 220-680 )

Testosterone:10.2 nmol/L ( 8.6-29 )

Sex hormone binding globulin:24 nmol/L ( 13-49 )

Prolactin:489 mU/L ( 85-400 ) H(Doctor said most likely the zoloft)

TSH:1.84 mU/L ( 0.27-4.2 )

Free Thyroxine:16.5 pmol/l ( 12.0-22.0 )

Free T3:4.3 pmol/l ( 3.1-6.8 )

RBC:5.0 x10'12/L ( 4.0-5.8 )

Haemoglobin:150 g/L ( 125-170 )

PCV:0.42 L/L ( 0.40-0.54 )

MCV:83 fL ( 80-100 )

MCH:30 pg ( 27-32 )

Red Cell Width:12.3 % ( 11.5-14.5 )

Platelet Count:242 x10'9/L ( 150-400 )

WBC:3.9 x10'9/L ( 4.0-10.0 ) L

Neutrophil:1.6 x10'9/L ( 2.0-7.5 ) L

Lymphocyte:1.8 x10'9/L ( 1.2-3.5 )

HbA1c:34 mmol/mol

Bilirubin:5 umol/l ( 2-24 )

Alk Phosphatase:62 U/L ( 45-110 )

GGT:15 U/l ( 10-50 )

ALT:24 U/l ( 0-45 )

AST:21 U/l ( 10-45 )

Total Protein:70 g/L ( 65-80 )

Albumin:44 g/L ( 32-48 )

Creatinine:81 umol/l ( 60-110 )

eGFR (CKD-EPI):>90 mL/min/1.73m2 ( >90 )

Iron:18 umol/l ( 10-30 )

Transferrin:3.0 g/l ( 2.0-3.2 )

Iron binding:69 umol/L ( 50-80 )

Iron Saturation:26 % ( 20-50 )

Ferritin:171 ug/L ( 30-500 )

 

[Systemlord]

I had to bail as the nausea, anxiousness, insomnia but mainly headaches were unbearable.

Same here, and it took me four and a half years to figure out why I had so many issues on cypionate and enanthate injections.

The problem is I'm so sensitive that the half-life, the long build up to peak, the unnatural static hormone profile is causing the problem.

The more frequent the injection, the more steady the levels, the worse the symptoms. My body just wiggs out and is in chaos.

A daily protocol produced symptoms in 7 days, an every other day protocol and the symptoms started at the two and a half weeks.

No benefits at all on twice weekly or weekly injections. I feel nothing at all.

As far your symptoms on TRT, I can only wonder if TRT is causing you to burn through something, a vitamin or mineral that's already low.

I tried cream and had the same experience, but the sides came after 2 weeks not 4 days.

Me also, the creams cause bad headaches and just felt unwell. The creams being closer to Jatenzo as far as better a mimicking a natural hormone circadian rhythm, a new oral TRT option, has similar hormone profiles to the creams/topicals and half-life, the outcome was dramatically different and very positive.

Always been sensitive to drugs alcohol etc.

We are a lot alike, can't touch alcohol and caffeine.

 

[JayD]

Wow that's crazy kind of glad I'm not alone I guess.

So you think doing EOD will give me similar results.

So are you on Jatenzo?

I believe the only oral TRT pill we have in NZ is Andriol capsules

 

[Systemlord]

So are you on Jatenzo?

My Experience On Jatenzo (Oral TRT) Log

I wanted to start a thread detailing my personal experience with Jatenzo (oral TRT) which is remarkable in how quickly it has shown results when compared with injections. The first week on Jatenzo was very pleasant unlike my experience after dosing changes on injections, all with minimal swings...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Fortunate]

Wow that's crazy kind of glad I'm not alone I guess.

So you think doing EOD will give me similar results.

So are you on Jatenzo?

I believe the only oral TRT pill we have in NZ is Andriol capsules

You are definitely not alone. I, myself, have struggled with just about any injection protocol and I’ve tried everything under the sun. I won’t bore you to death with the details…

Unfortunately, your access to medications may be a limiting factor. That said, as above, there are a variety of other ways and means to get testosterone into your system that may be worth considering.

Do you have access to hCG? Some do well on monotherapy.

 

[Systemlord]

I believe the only oral TRT pill we have in NZ is Andriol capsules

There are new companies coming out with oral T options all the time, so it's only a matter of time because other countries have an oral T option.

 

[Jerajera]

Have you ever tried an actual TRT dose?

I'm all for keeping protocols reasonable, I'm feeling the best I've felt in a long time on just 100mg/week in 2 injections, but 3mg/day is ridiculously low. You're most likely ending up with lower levels than you had naturally.

There was a study on the effects of Testosterone on fat free mass among other things, with dosages of 25, 50, 125, 300 and 600 mg/week. The men on 25mg/week ended up actually losing fat free mass, indicating that once their natural production was shut down they ended up with lower levels than pre exogenous supplementation.
The men on 50mg/week barely sustained whatever fat free mass they had previously: https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpendo.2001.281.6.E1172?rfr_dat=cr_pub++0pubmed&url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org

Even on 6mg/day you're only at 42mg/week. Take out the ester and you're around 28mg/week of actual Testoterone, or 4mg/day. That's close to the very bottom of the currently accepted (whatever that means) 3-10mg/day range of endogenous Testosterone production in a healthy young man.

I'm pretty sure I would feel absolutely horrible on 3mg/day, probably 6mg/day also. If you've never tried, give 100mg/week a shot, 50mg twice/week. Give it a real chance by staying on that for 6-8 weeks unless your blood pressure (which you will be monitoring on a daily basis) and resting heart rate go into a dangerous zone.

Try not to overthink every single symptom during that 6-8 week period. Keep an eye on BP and RHR and try to focus on other things.

 

[JayD]

You are definitely not alone. I, myself, have struggled with just about any injection protocol and I’ve tried everything under the sun. I won’t bore you to death with the details…

Unfortunately, your access to medications may be a limiting factor. That said, as above, there are a variety of other ways and means to get testosterone into your system that may be worth considering.

Do you have access to hCG? Some do well on monotherapy.

Yes we do. that could be something to look into

 

[JayD]

Have you ever tried an actual TRT dose?

I'm all for keeping protocols reasonable, I'm feeling the best I've felt in a long time on just 100mg/week in 2 injections, but 3mg/day is ridiculously low. You're most likely ending up with lower levels than you had naturally.

There was a study on the effects of Testosterone on fat free mass among other things, with dosages of 25, 50, 125, 300 and 600 mg/week. The men on 25mg/week ended up actually losing fat free mass, indicating that once their natural production was shut down they ended up with lower levels than pre exogenous supplementation.
The men on 50mg/week barely sustained whatever fat free mass they had previously: https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpendo.2001.281.6.E1172?rfr_dat=cr_pub++0pubmed&url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org

Even on 6mg/day you're only at 42mg/week. Take out the ester and you're around 28mg/week of actual Testoterone, or 4mg/day. That's close to the very bottom of the currently accepted (whatever that means) 3-10mg/day range of endogenous Testosterone production in a healthy young man.

I'm pretty sure I would feel absolutely horrible on 3mg/day, probably 6mg/day also. If you've never tried, give 100mg/week a shot, 50mg twice/week. Give it a real chance by staying on that for 6-8 weeks unless your blood pressure (which you will be monitoring on a daily basis) and resting heart rate go into a dangerous zone.

Try not to overthink every single symptom during that 6-8 week period. Keep an eye on BP and RHR and try to focus on other things.

I originally started on 12mg per day and got 2 days in before i thought my head was about to explode, also could barely sleep a wink. I then took afew days off then restarted at 6mg which was abit better but just could not tolerate that after around 4 days in. Again my my face went very flush and head felt like it was going to explode from pressure. I would imagine a shot of 50mg would put me in the ER. The effects were all in compassing and impossible for me to avoid. The latest 3mg a day was similer to the 6mg experiment, just felt very unwell towards the end like i was poisoning myself, and just an overwhelming urge to get it out of my body.

I have also had a similar experience with Tongkat ali but much milder.

Thanks Ill check that study out

 

[JayD]

Quick update:

3 weeks into 10mg MWF(30mg total) and I am starting to feel ok the last few days. First 2 weeks were hell and i almost pulled the pin. Thank God for anti nausea, ibuprofen and melatonin. Thankfully after trawling the internet I found a reddit post of people sharing their struggles, over the first weeks/month on TRT. This gave me the confidence and determination to hunker down and push through. I just wish I had seen this thread prior to my first few failed attempts, as would of saved alot of time and unnecessary misery.

My only only issue now is my blood pressure is 137/90 when it used to be in the 120's prior.

Overall I can feel I am not 100% and energy is lower this week, but sleep is much improved, erections good, and overall aches n pains have vanished. Still have fleeting moments of mild nausea headaches and mood imbalances.

One part of me says to go to 45mg week Monday, but the other part says to get bloods Done in afew weeks, to see where I'm at then adjust the dose up accordingly.

 

[JayD]

Also forgot to add got an MRI booked to investigate a pituitary tumor Monday.

 

[Hyrulewarrior1978]

Also forgot to add got an MRI booked to investigate a pituitary tumor Monday.

Are you taking any other medications other than zoloft and testosterone? Something doesn’t sound right.

 

[JayD]

Are you taking any other medications other than zoloft and testosterone? Something doesn’t sound right.

No just those

 

[JayD]

MRI came back normal. Going to try 100mg day vit B6.

Figured out BP the device was faulty. I was exactly 10 points under

Pretty certain I will up my dose Wednesday then do bloods in 6 weeks. Hopefully it won't be as rough as the first 2 weeks, as i'm near certain my natural production has now shut down.

 

[Hyrulewarrior1978]

MRI came back normal. Going to try 100mg day vit B6.

Figured out BP the device was faulty. I was exactly 10 points under

Pretty certain I will up my dose Wednesday then do bloods in 6 weeks. Hopefully it won't be as rough as the first 2 weeks, as i'm near certain my natural production has now shut down.

Let us know how it goes!!

 

[JayD]

So 5 weeks in on 18mg MWF(54mg) and the last week have felt like rubbish. Tired, achy no energy and zero motivation. The strange thing is my Test levels are now higher than before i started TRT? so i thought i would feel better. Strangley my libido is slightly higher than before starting.

Do i wait this out? or bump up my dose? and if so by how much?

Latest bloods below...

Testosterone:17.3 nmol/L ( 9.0-25.0 ) (Previous 10.2)

Oestradiol:66 pmol/L (Previous 29 pmol/L)

Prolactin:735 mU/L ( 65-400 ) H (Previous 489)

TSH:3.16 mU/L ( 0.27-4.2 )

Free Thyroxine:13.6 pmol/l ( 12.0-22.0 )

Free T3:4.1 pmol/l ( 3.1-6.8 )

C Reactive Protein:<0.6 mg/L ( < 5 )

Bilirubin:6 umol/l ( 2-24 )

Alk Phosphatase:57 U/L ( 40-110 )

GGT:20 U/l ( 10-50 )

ALT:36 U/l ( 0-45 )

AST:26 U/l ( 10-45 )

Total Protein:72 g/L ( 65-80 )

Albumin:45 g/L ( 32-48 )

RBC:5.3 x10'12/L ( 4.0-5.8 )

Haemoglobin:160 g/L ( 125-170 )

PCV:0.46 L/L ( 0.40-0.54 )

MCV:87 fL ( 80-100 )

MCH:30 pg ( 27-32 )

Red Cell Width:13.1 % ( 11.5-14.5 )

Platelet Count:278 x10'9/L ( 150-400 )

WBC:5.7 x10'9/L ( 4.0-10.0 )

Neutrophil:2.5 x10'9/L ( 2.0-7.5 )

Lymphocyte:2.6 x10'9/L ( 1.2-3.5 )

Monocyte:0.4 x10'9/L ( 0.3-1.0 )

Still waiting on afew more labs

Thanks Guys