Pregnenolone Blood Levels

[mopes]

Those of you that have tested Pregnenolone, what are you aiming for level wise? What have you seen with and without supplemental Pregnenolone? I realize this may not be the most accurate or reliable test but seems to be the best we've got currently.

Mine just came back at 42 ng/dL with reference range of <151

No supplemental preg, this was with an hCG dose of 250 IU mon, wed, fri. DHT came back at 61 ng/dL which is virtually identical to the 62 it was at prior to starting TRT. Still waiting on remainder of bloodwork.

 

[trt4me]

I would like to know this too since I have never seen how a dosage is determined.

 

[1Draw]

Those of you that have tested Pregnenolone, what are you aiming for level wise? What have you seen with and without supplemental Pregnenolone? I realize this may not be the most accurate or reliable test but seems to be the best we've got currently.

Mine just came back at 42 ng/dL with reference range of <151

Mopes:
Prior to starting TRT back in 10/14, I had a blood test done at specialists office for Pregnenolone along with other important hormones and results I had showed 74 ng/dl with ranges of 23-173 ng/dl.

This was not Labcorp or Quest but, I would think the ranges above are pretty much normal for most labs. I haven't had mine tested since and have been taking DHEA/Pregnenolone 40/20 nightly.

Found an article from Life Extensions and they recommend levels of 180 ng/dl for men and 200 ng/dl for women as being optimal.

From your result of 42, looks like you are on the low end.

 

[mopes]

Interesting. Would seem to indicate that hcg is likely doing nothing to elevate or boost my levels into the higher end of range even at 250IU three times a week.

 

[Vince Carter]

I don't really recall any of us getting specific about Preg, we tend to supplement it but it's not something we monitor like T and E, it's not monitored anywhere close in that way. And, Preg is produced through the testes, it's one of those hormonal pathways that we desire to keep the testes alive with HCG so it's no new info that your Preg was up.
Further, the Preg test, if you're paying for it out-of-pocket, is rather expensive, another reason it's not monitored. Lastly, Preg is high up in the hormonal cascade of the hormones we supplement and replace; T/DHT/E/DHEA and so on.
Some use it at night they feel they sleep better and other subjective experiences but beyond that there's no much to it like the others.

 

[mopes]

Common wisdom is that hCG should stimulate preg levels, obviously I don't know what my level looked like prior to hcg but it appears that it is doing very little/nothing at 750IU a week to bump my preg into mid-high end of range. Just find it interesting that it may not be doing what I would have assumed it is.

Going to drop the hcg and retest preg in a few months. Will be telling if it's still in the ballpark of where it sits today...

 

[Vince Carter]

Common wisdom is that hCG should stimulate preg levels, obviously I don't know what my level looked like prior to hcg but it appears that it is doing very little/nothing at 750IU a week to bump my preg into mid-high end of range. Just find it interesting that it may not be doing what I would have assumed it is.

Going to drop the hcg and retest preg in a few months. Will be telling if it's still in the ballpark of where it sits today...

You're going about this all wrong, the fixation on Preg is just all wrong and your use of HCG, too.

 

[Weasel]

I cannot state what HCG has done for my actual Preg levels but it didnt affect my Progesterone levels in the least. Supplementing with dhea/preg tripled my Prog. levels.(from 0.3 to 0.9) Which im not sure is a great thing as it seems be affecting my libido/ability.

 

[mopes]

You're going about this all wrong, the fixation on Preg is just all wrong and your use of HCG, too.

How am I going about it all wrong? Trying to determine if a commonly held belief is accurate or applicable to my body? I'm not fixated on preg by any means, simply interested in seeing some real data as opposed to conjecture and assumptions.

 

[mopes]

Still curious how I'm going about this all wrong...

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I think mopes question is a great one.

There is very little data on "optimal" ranges of pregnenolone in men. There is also very limited data on its role in men's health.

We have no data on the effect of different doses of HCG on pregnenolone and progesterone levels. What we know if that TRT can lowers those two upstream hormones significantly if we do not use HCG with TRT.

 

[Gene Devine]

HCG, as an LH analog, stimulate the P450scc enzyme which is responsible for the conversion synthesis of Cholesterol to Pregnenolone; so the supplementation of HCG would see an increase in serum levels.

Please note, the Pregnenolone lab tests for serum level concentration is wildly in accurate and why many physicians in the know don't order it.

I know that there is a new urine assay to test for Pregnenolone levels but I don't even know if there is a reference range for it.

 

[mopes]

HCG, as an LH analog, stimulate the P450scc enzyme which is responsible for the conversion synthesis of Cholesterol to Pregnenolone; so the supplementation of HCG would see an increase in serum levels.

Please note, the Pregnenolone lab tests for serum level concentration is wildly in accurate and why many physicians in the know don't order it.

I know that there is a new urine assay to test for Pregnenolone levels but I don't even know if there is a reference range for it.

I'm not disputing your claim that the test is wildly inaccurate, but do you have any studies to illustrate it's ineffectiveness/inaccuracy?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Reference Interval

[TABLE="width: 604"]
[TR]
[TH]Age[/TH]
[TH]Range (ng/dL)[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Premature (26-28w) Day 4[/TD]
[TD]260 -2104[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Premature (34 - 36w) Day 4[/TD]
[TD]203 - 1024[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Neonates (1-7d)[/TD]
[TD]150 - 2000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Prepubertal[/TD]
[TD]20 - 140[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Pubertal and adults[/TD]
[TD]<151[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Levels decrease after birth and are within the prepubertal range of 20 - 140 by 3 months.


Test No.

500258


LabCorp Test No.

140707


Methodology

High-pressure liquid chromatography/tandem mass spectrometry (HPLC/MS-MS)


Turnaround Time

3 - 6 days









http://www.discountedlabs.com/pregnenolone/

 

[Gene Devine]

I'm not disputing your claim that the test is wildly inaccurate, but do you have any studies to illustrate it's ineffectiveness/inaccuracy?

You're not going to find any imperical studies re the accuracy of the Pregnenolone assay. One needs to hear directly from well trained and expert interventional endocrinologits to learn that they see consistent varations in results over time.

Dr Crisler, on Superhuman radio, states directly that pregnenolone tests to be inconsistent; he bases pregnenolone treatment on empirical evidence. I've also spoken to him directly about Pregnenolone assay accuracy and his response to me was "Gene, save your money. One can live at higher levels of Pregnenolon serum concentration with no health risk or negative side effects".

I've also spoken to Dr. Richard Gaines re the same and his posiiton mirrored that of Dr. Crisler.

Notwithstand the inconsistent results but the lab can also be expensive.

I've never had it tested and I have no concerns about my serum levels with it comes to Preg. I suplement 50 mg every evening for many years now to help back fill the pathways when on TRT.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

The above pregnenolone test I posted is highly accurate since it uses high-pressure liquid chromatography/tandem mass spectrometry (HPLC/MS-MS)

It is the most expensive hormone test available on www.DiscountedLabs.com

 

[mopes]

The above pregnenolone test I posted is highly accurate since it uses high-pressure liquid chromatography/tandem mass spectrometry (HPLC/MS-MS)

It is the most expensive hormone test available on www.DiscountedLabs.com

Thanks Nelson. That's the test I ordered, and it was from discountedlabs. I'll run in again in a month or so to see what my level looks like without hcg.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

I think "inaccurate" may have multiple meanings in this context.

I wouldn't say the LC/MS-MS pregnenolone test is inaccurate - in the sense of giving a false reading - indeed it is fairly "accurate" in this sense based on the methodology.

However, the results may be "inaccurate" (not the best term but using it here to fit this discussion) in the sense that pregnenolone levels can vary WIDELY even on an INTRAday basis based on the rate/magnitude of how the pregnenolone is being "pulled" down the various downstream hormone pathways.

To even have a chance to get a true idea of the pregnenolone level and WHERE it may be going, one would need to concurrently check/monitor the other downstream hormones - DHEA-S, progesterone, cortisol X 4, aldosterone (with progesterone being a big one).

Thus, due to this complexity of multi-variable monitoring and also confounding variables, monitoring and evaluating subjective/symptomatic response is of utmost clinical importance.

 

[Gene Devine]

I think "inaccurate" may have multiple meanings in this context.

I wouldn't say the LC/MS-MS pregnenolone test is inaccurate - in the sense of giving a false reading - indeed it is fairly "accurate" in this sense based on the methodology.

However, the results may be "inaccurate" (not the best term but using it here to fit this discussion) in the sense that pregnenolone levels can vary WIDELY even on an INTRAday basis based on the rate/magnitude of how the pregnenolone is being "pulled" down the various downstream hormone pathways.

To even have a chance to get a true idea of the pregnenolone level and WHERE it may be going, one would need to concurrently check/monitor the other downstream hormones - DHEA-S, progesterone, cortisol X 4, aldosterone (with progesterone being a big one).

Thus, due to this complexity of multi-variable monitoring and also confounding variables, monitoring and evaluating subjective/symptomatic response is of utmost clinical importance.

Excellent post.

I probably should have said "inconsistent" rather then "inaccurate" I was writing fast in between conference calls

The excellent point here is that Pregnenolone levels change dramatically during the day and night.

Static serum levels and rate of consumption come into play with this lab (or for many labs for that matter). The labs that Dr. Saya points out that are the down stream metabolites that will provide a better insigt to pregnenoline serum levels.

 

[mopes]

I think "inaccurate" may have multiple meanings in this context.

I wouldn't say the LC/MS-MS pregnenolone test is inaccurate - in the sense of giving a false reading - indeed it is fairly "accurate" in this sense based on the methodology.

However, the results may be "inaccurate" (not the best term but using it here to fit this discussion) in the sense that pregnenolone levels can vary WIDELY even on an INTRAday basis based on the rate/magnitude of how the pregnenolone is being "pulled" down the various downstream hormone pathways.

To even have a chance to get a true idea of the pregnenolone level and WHERE it may be going, one would need to concurrently check/monitor the other downstream hormones - DHEA-S, progesterone, cortisol X 4, aldosterone (with progesterone being a big one).

Thus, due to this complexity of multi-variable monitoring and also confounding variables, monitoring and evaluating subjective/symptomatic response is of utmost clinical importance.

Thanks for the response. Sounds like a good project to add to my list.