As the title states, I am reaching the end of my rope on my TRT because I simply cannot get into deep restful sleep. I have tried almost everything so don't bother with the laundry list of supplements, etc. My blood work is good, no thyroid issues, had key vitamins tested for deficiency, etc. I just cannot seem to drop down into REM or deep sleep and basically feel tired all day every day. I still continue to push through but am just reaching the end of my patience after 2.5 years of trying to figure it out. My protocol is 90mg per week, EOD injections, No HCG, No AI. I can now fall asleep pretty well most nights but even when I sleep 8.5 hours, I still feel tired and its getting to the point where I am ready to hang it up, PCT and come off to see if there is significant improvement. Again, with the exception of Progesterone cream, I have pretty much done it all and am just wondering if anyone was like me and figured it out or, came off and sleep returned to normal. Thanks for letting me vent. Any comments or suggestions are welcome.
Vince
Super Moderator
Can you post your sleep results.
Vince
Super Moderator
How do you know how much your deep sleep is, if you don't have a ring or watch to track it?
Vince
Super Moderator
Anyone tracking sleep cycles/Devices/Apple Watch Ultra?
I noticed since starting creatine supplements, my time spent in core sleep has increased. I have been working out harder on certain days. Why am I spending more time in core sleep versus the other sleep cycles?
www.excelmale.com
Try a lower dose testosterone. Some people do 50mg/week. The insomnia side effect tends to decrease with dosing.
If that doesn't help, you could try a sleep benzo: 15-30mg temazepam, although benzos are also immunomodulators and the temazepam is in the ummunosuppressive group - the research on that is skimpy. Temazepam is a very gentle drug, after you develop tolerance to it in a few days. It makes you slightly sleepy but it is up to you - if you want you may decide not to sleep. Ambien is like a date rape drug compared to Temazepam.
If that doesn't help, you could try a sleep benzo: 15-30mg temazepam, although benzos are also immunomodulators and the temazepam is in the ummunosuppressive group - the research on that is skimpy. Temazepam is a very gentle drug, after you develop tolerance to it in a few days. It makes you slightly sleepy but it is up to you - if you want you may decide not to sleep. Ambien is like a date rape drug compared to Temazepam.
I track it every day with iPhone and sleep app. Deep sleep is usually between five and 15 minutes per night. Not to mention the way that I used to sleep before TRT and now after TRT.
DixieWrecked
Well-Known Member
Where is your estrogen. My sleep gets bad if estrogen is too high
Numbers are in check
You've been around the block so you probably already know that exogenous T can excite the CNS. It's a function of dose as @sammmy mentioned.
I have had similar problem over the years where I feel great physically at top of range dose, but it destroys my sleep. When using straight Enanthate, I have to drop down to maximum of 7mg daily (about 50mg per week) to get restful REM sleep. Otherwise it cuts off 2-3 hours of sleep per night.
The issue with medium-term esters like Enan and Cyp on daily or EOD is that you remain in steady state with no dip at night. Have you considered using blend of propionate/enanthate? Introducing prop will spike your T earlier in the day and then allow T to decrease at night.
You would still probably have to reduce your dose though.
I have had similar problem over the years where I feel great physically at top of range dose, but it destroys my sleep. When using straight Enanthate, I have to drop down to maximum of 7mg daily (about 50mg per week) to get restful REM sleep. Otherwise it cuts off 2-3 hours of sleep per night.
The issue with medium-term esters like Enan and Cyp on daily or EOD is that you remain in steady state with no dip at night. Have you considered using blend of propionate/enanthate? Introducing prop will spike your T earlier in the day and then allow T to decrease at night.
You would still probably have to reduce your dose though.
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
How many steps do you take per day ?
Do you have depression or anxiety ?
Have you checked your thyroid and adrenals ?
What other meds are you taking ?
Do you read your phone or iPad in bed ?
Do you sleep alone or with someone ?
Etc
Do you have depression or anxiety ?
Have you checked your thyroid and adrenals ?
What other meds are you taking ?
Do you read your phone or iPad in bed ?
Do you sleep alone or with someone ?
Etc
DixieWrecked
Well-Known Member
I can absolutely confirm that my sleep is better on daily prop. But god dang man. Daily injections are a pain.
OP if I were you I'd skip a few injections and see if your sleep improves after 4-5 days. If it does, probably gotta lower that dose a little.
t_spacemonkey
Well-Known Member
stay away from benzos, they will not improve your quality. you could be dealing with other issues. please list all pharma drugs you take other then trt.
I delt with anxiety/sleep issues for years and am very sensitive to anything. but TRT makes my sleep better, even at doses up to 250mg/week, although I feel too revved.
if you sleep but wake up tired, this could have other reasons, like CFS, past Lyme infections, immune system issues etc, past vaccine induced damage etc.
I delt with anxiety/sleep issues for years and am very sensitive to anything. but TRT makes my sleep better, even at doses up to 250mg/week, although I feel too revved.
if you sleep but wake up tired, this could have other reasons, like CFS, past Lyme infections, immune system issues etc, past vaccine induced damage etc.
From your experience, is there a drastic difference in physical performance and muscle size between 100mg/week and 50mg/week testosterone?
Do you think going to daily injections would help this at all? That’s a major pain but I’d be willing to try it. As it is now, I’m at 80 mg now.
Thyroid and adrenals are good.
No other meds accept ibuprofen daily for my back.
Yes, I use my phone in bed but that’s was no issue before TRT.
I kicked my wife out of our bed because she is a kicker and flopper. Been sleeping in separate beds for over a year.
This has something to do with the excited CNS as other poster indicated.
That's a great question. While the science says otherwise, I definitely noticed a difference in strength/performance and muscle at 100mg weekly (laughably low for BBers), about 10% if I had to quantify. Then again I am a skinny bastard and truthfully, I doubt if anyone other than myself noticed the difference (even my wife LOL). The added water weight from cypionate at 100mg per week definitely played a role in the size difference (nearly +13 lbs in my case). Of course, I developed mild sleep apnea for the first time in my life so definitely not worth the perceived benefits.
True to its reputation, straight Prop gave the best body composition IMO. It was remarkable how much leaner my body appeared even at lower dose (8-10 mg daily).
Probably not since it will result in even less nightly variation, but the dose reduction could. 10mg daily subq is much praised (results in approx 7mg of actual T net of ester, which matches average daily production of healthy young male).
What's your dose of prop?
A lot of guys say that their sleep got worse when they tried straight prop.
Maybe a case for scrotal Test cream? Once daily?
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