Please Help…Severe Issues After Crashing E2

[Jack2017]

Please help. Any advise is greatly appreciated. Im 35 years old very fit and active. I eat very clean and workout 6 days a week. Recently I had been struggling with what I thought were low t symptoms. I had blood work done and my T came back in the high 300. Per the advise of a trt clinic I started on HCG (300iu MWF) , anastrozole as needed and Enclomiphene 12.5mg. I started this protocol on 10/5/22 and stopped everything on 11/5/22. I did not like the way the HCG made me feel as I felt it increased my blood pressure, made my erections worse and messed with my breathing. I took around 5-6 total doses of the AI ( each dose being .125-.25) over the month of being on HCG and 5 pills of the Enclomiphene. My estrogen went from 40 to 5 within 7 days and the anxiety hit me like a ton of bricks that I still have to this day. The anxiety is non stop and is unbearable.I had to start taking Valium daily and that doesn’t even help at all. The anxiety is so bad it’s causing tremors all over my body.



After being off everything for 4 weeks my total T was 218 and E2 was 7.6. On 11/30 I shivered cold all night long and the next day woke up covered in sweat. On 12/2 I was given prednisone by my eye dr. I woke up in the middle of the night with extreme dizziness and ringing in my ears that never went away and pins and needles sensation all over my body. The pain is now more of a burning constant pain from head to toe that has not gone away (mainly on my face, back of neck, legs and arms). I also have deep muscle pains that come and go from different spots. Not sure if I could have triggered fibromyalgia or what is going on. I have also developed GI issues since this started as well.



My latest bloodwork was total T of 363, Free T of 12, E2 sensitive of 12 and Estrone of 56, but no relief in any of the symptoms above. Does anyone have any suggestions on what may be going on? Could this still be all caused from crashing my E2? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Systemlord]

My latest bloodwork was total T of 363, Free T of 12, E2 sensitive of 12 and Estrone of 56, but no relief in any of the symptoms above.

It would greatly help if you provided normal ranges for all labs, as labs companies have wildly different lab ranges.

Your symptoms are clearly from low estrogen, which it’s not surprising to see alongside suboptimal Free T.

Could this still be all caused from crashing my E2?

Your symptoms are multifaceted, at least when you were still being treated, which was from you not tolerating hCG, crashing your E2 using an AI and the enclomiphene, which doesn’t usually translate into full symptoms relief in a lot of men.

The low estrogen can make you not hold onto fluids, which can make you feel cold because your body can’t regulate temperature when you don’t have enough fluids.

There’s no treatment for crashed estrogen, except time.

What was your estrogen prior to treatment?

Estrone of 56

Estrone is a weak form of estrogen, no competent provider even bothers testing for it because it’s practically worthless.

 

[Jack2017]

All labs were done through lab corp
Ref Ranges.
T 264-916
Free T 8.7-25.1
E2 8-35
Esterone 0-180

 

[sammmy]

Your symptoms have nothing to do with low E or hormones. Low E cannot cause such intensity of symptoms.

Shivering, waking up in sweat, GI issues can be a sign of infection. Your immune system is activated, damaging nerves, hence the "burning" and "deep muscle pains".

I would go to an Infectious Disease doctor to try to find out what the infection is. A full STD panel (most suspicious would be HIV and Syphilis) has to be done for starters and then herpes family viruses - IgM antibodies for Simplex 1 and 2, Varicella (most suspicious because it can cause all your symptoms), Epstein Barr, Cytomegalovirus, HHV-6.

Careful with prednisone - it suppresses the immune system and may aggravate some infections. Better take NSAID's like ibuprofen or aspirin to see if it helps with the pains.

 

[Systemlord]

Your symptoms have nothing to do with low E or hormones. Low E cannot cause such intensity of symptoms.

estrogen went from 40 to 5 within 7 days and the anxiety hit me like a ton of bricks that I still have to this day. The anxiety is non stop and is unbearable.

I woke up in the middle of the night with extreme dizziness and ringing in my ears that never went away and pins and needles sensation all over my body.

I had every single one of these symptoms after taking an AI and knocking my E2 down to 7 and 12. I even had pins and needles in hands, arms and legs. I had dry eyes, that needed medicine.

Dehydration is expected to decrease immune function as well as low estrogen, because estrogen plays a major role in immune function.

 

[sammmy]

His only symptom that started during his month of TRT was anxiety.

The more serious symptoms started a month after he is already off AI, not while he was taking AI and his Estrogen was even lower. So this is not related to Estrogen at all.

Moreover, his symptoms escalated when he took immuno-suppressive prednisone, which is contraindicated in all kinds of infections.

All this points towards infection that escalated due to prednisone, not to "low estrogen".

 

[Jack2017]

It would greatly help if you provided normal ranges for all labs, as labs companies have wildly different lab ranges.

Your symptoms are clearly from low estrogen, which it’s not surprising to see alongside suboptimal Free T.

Your symptoms are multifaceted, at least when you were still being treated, which was from you not tolerating hCG, crashing your E2 using an AI and the enclomiphene, which doesn’t usually translate into full symptoms relief in a lot of men.

The low estrogen can make you not hold onto fluids, which can make you feel cold because your body can’t regulate temperature when you don’t have enough fluids.

There’s no treatment for crashed estrogen, except time.

What was your estrogen prior to treatment?


Estrone is a weak form of estrogen, no competent provider even bothers testing for it because it’s practically worthless.

E2 was 15

 

[Jack2017]

Your symptoms have nothing to do with low E or hormones. Low E cannot cause such intensity of symptoms.

Shivering, waking up in sweat, GI issues can be a sign of infection. Your immune system is activated, damaging nerves, hence the "burning" and "deep muscle pains".

I would go to an Infectious Disease doctor to try to find out what the infection is. A full STD panel (most suspicious would be HIV and Syphilis) has to be done for starters and then herpes family viruses - IgM antibodies for Simplex 1 and 2, Varicella (most suspicious because it can cause all your symptoms), Epstein Barr, Cytomegalovirus, HHV-6.

Careful with prednisone - it suppresses the immune system and may aggravate some infections. Better take NSAID's like ibuprofen or aspirin to see if it helps with the pains.

I have HSV1 and my levels are the same as they have always been. I do not have active infection of Epstein Bar but have had it. Not sure on the HIV because I only used cleaned needles.

 

[Jack2017]

I had every single one of these symptoms after taking an AI and knocking my E2 down to 7 and 12. I even had pins and needles in hands, arms and legs. I had dry eyes, that needed medicine.

Dehydration is expected to decrease immune function as well as low estrogen, because estrogen plays a major role in immune function.

Did your problems ever go away? If so, how long did it take to go away and what did you do? Did you have severe anxiety?

 

[Jack2017]

E2 was 15

Is it normal to have the severe anxiety for 3 months since I’m not on T to bring my testosterone and E2 up?

 

[sammmy]

I have HSV1 and my levels are the same as they have always been. I do not have active infection of Epstein Bar but have had it. Not sure on the HIV because I only used cleaned needles.

Almost everybody adult is already infected with almost all herpes family viruses so testing for IgG antibodies typically shows nothing interesting. Testing for IgM antibodies (not IgG) will tell you if one of those was active recently (out of latency) or is currently active and causing your symptoms.

That's how I found I have chronically activating Varicella virus and it can cause most of your symptoms like GI disturbance, muscle pains, nerve damage, even without the typical zoster rash.

 

[Jack2017]

Almost everybody adult is already infected with almost all herpes family viruses so testing for IgG antibodies typically shows nothing interesting. Testing for IgM antibodies (not IgG) will tell you if one of those was active recently (out of latency) or is currently active and causing your symptoms.

That's how I found I have chronically activating Varicella virus and it can cause most of your symptoms like GI disturbance, muscle pains, nerve damage, even without the typical zoster rash.

The cyto and EBV IGM are both negative.

How are you treating your active Varicella virus?

Do you think the extreme anxiety is caused from crashing of the hormones?

Would getting on T help relieve my anxiety in your opinion ?

 

[sammmy]

High doses famciclovir for active Varicella, but first you have to test for it. It's pointless to take antiviral drugs if you don't know what you are treating.

For what reasons did your eye doctor prescribe you prednisone?

Your anxiety started on your regimen of HCG, AI, and Enclomiphene. Your hormones currently seem restored at your previous levels and you still have anxiety, which suggests that the anxiety may not be hormone related and it starting during your regimen may have been just a time coinsicence. You can try stuff like TRT but I don't see how that would address the pains all over body and "pins and needles" which sounds like neuropathy.

 

[Flexedup]

OP, I have had 95% of your described symptoms after crashing my E2. It was the worst mistake of my life and began cherishing estrogen very much. I'm currently on 300iu of HCG to recover from this mess and it has worked wonderfully. My BP was extremely low after crashing my E2 and HCG brought it up to perfect levels. My mental acuity returned, brain fog gone, libido and erections and top notch, dehydration and dry eyes subsided, insomnia and depression are completely gone. My regime to recover has been HCG taken at night intramuscularly with 400iu of vitamin E. I take 50-100mg of P5P in divided doses during the day to combat the prolactin rise. Cruising on hcg by itself was the best resolution and it's only been a month. I will run it for one more and exit with clomid and Tamoxifen. My E2 non-sensitive is sitting at 62 (high 43 on lab ranges) and have never felt better. You're blocking too much estrogen using enclomiphne + AI.

 

[Systemlord]

E2 was 15

That’s still low for a lot of men, so I don’t know what you expect by simply playing the waiting game. It’s oblivious you may need TRT to resolve your symptom that forced you to seek out treatment in the first place.

Is it normal to have the severe anxiety for 3 months since I’m not on T to bring my testosterone and E2 up?

It’s normal to have anxiety when estrogen is low. You only need to picture a women on her period.

 

[Jack2017]

Once

High doses famciclovir for active Varicella, but first you have to test for it. It's pointless to take antiviral drugs if you don't know what you are treating.

For what reasons did your eye doctor prescribe you prednisone?

Your anxiety started on your regimen of HCG, AI, and Enclomiphene. Your hormones currently seem restored at your previous levels and you still have anxiety, which suggests that the anxiety may not be hormone related and it starting during your regimen may have been just a time coinsicence. You can try stuff like TRT but I don't see how that would address the pains all over body and "pins and needles" which sounds like neuropathy.

once I crashed my estrogen my eyes became super dry and painful. It may have been from the few doses of Enclomiphene too. He gave me prednisone hoping it would fix something.

The anxiety I have now is way worse than it was on the HCG. HCG I just didn’t like the way it made me feel. The severe anxiety came on a day or two after my E2 crashed and hasn’t left.

Yeah not sure on the pain but I want the anxiety and constant tremors gone more than anything.

 

[Jack2017]

OP, I have had 95% of your described symptoms after crashing my E2. It was the worst mistake of my life and began cherishing estrogen very much. I'm currently on 300iu of HCG to recover from this mess and it has worked wonderfully. My BP was extremely low after crashing my E2 and HCG brought it up to perfect levels. My mental acuity returned, brain fog gone, libido and erections and top notch, dehydration and dry eyes subsided, insomnia and depression are completely gone. My regime to recover has been HCG taken at night intramuscularly with 400iu of vitamin E. I take 50-100mg of P5P in divided doses during the day to combat the prolactin rise. Cruising on hcg by itself was the best resolution and it's only been a month. I will run it for one more and exit with clomid and Tamoxifen. My E2 non-sensitive is sitting at 62 (high 43 on lab ranges) and have never felt better. You're blocking too much estrogen using enclomiphne + AI.

Did you also have extreme anxiety? I wonder if I got on test if the anxiety would go away? Has anyone seen someone do permanent damage from crashing E2?

 

[Systemlord]

Has anyone seen someone do permanent damage from crashing E2?

There are some members who claim to never be the same after crashing their estrogen, but it’s difficult to determine if their pre-existing issues (mental problems) are just getting worse or if it’s from the crashed estrogen.

Some have even thrown around receptor knockout, similar to using DHT blocking medications and developing what’s known as Post Finasteride syndrome.

 

[Jack2017]

OP, I have had 95% of your described symptoms after crashing my E2. It was the worst mistake of my life and began cherishing estrogen very much. I'm currently on 300iu of HCG to recover from this mess and it has worked wonderfully. My BP was extremely low after crashing my E2 and HCG brought it up to perfect levels. My mental acuity returned, brain fog gone, libido and erections and top notch, dehydration and dry eyes subsided, insomnia and depression are completely gone. My regime to recover has been HCG taken at night intramuscularly with 400iu of vitamin E. I take 50-100mg of P5P in divided doses during the day to combat the prolactin rise. Cruising on hcg by itself was the best resolution and it's only been a month. I will run it for one more and exit with clomid and Tamoxifen. My E2 non-sensitive is sitting at 62 (high 43 on lab ranges) and have never felt better. You're blocking too much estrogen using enclomiphne + AI.

What were your other symptoms that you had that went away?

 

[Jack2017]

There are some members who claim to never be the same after crashing their estrogen, but it’s difficult to determine if their pre-existing issues (mental problems) are just getting worse or if it’s from the crashed estrogen.

Some have even thrown around receptor knockout, similar to using DHT blocking medications and developing what’s known as Post Finasteride syndrome.

I had no anxiety issues prior to starting HCG and crashing my estrogen.