Severe Insomnia and Anxiety for Last week: Labs reveal high e2. How to address? HELP!

[Xerxes]

my protocol is 160mg cypionate per week split into two doses. no ai no hcg. been on it since june 16
so i've been dealing with severe anxiety and insomnia for about a week now. went to my primary to get blood drawn and result is i have high

e2 42 on a range of <40 HIGH
total t = 693 range 160-853
free t = 18.2 range 3.5-15.5 HIGH
shbg = 20.7 range 10-57
albumin = 4.7 range 3.2-4.8
dhea = 168 range 80-560
prolactin 4 range 2.1-17.7
DHT - they're still waiting on the result

What do I do with these numbers and how do I start to feel better? Is an AI in order?

at least i know what is causing it now. previous measurment about a month ago was 26, i didnt feel great then even , but now it's just outrageous.

my primary is unsure about arimidex and ai treatment in general. I only went to him bc he was willing to do the blood work and my urologist was not. i emailed uro bout the number and he said he has used it befor but i'd nd to see him much more frequently, which is hard b/c he is in city and i am in burbs

I have been using dim 400 mg am and 200 mg pm for about a week and calcium d glucrate 1000 mg 3 x a day, i also take 19 mg zinc orotate am and pm.

i plan on reducing my dosage and maybe doing 3 shots a week instead of two (maybe 40 mg every mon/wed/fri).

My question is does anyone have any advice about how to get e2 down quickly w/o an ai? Or does arimidex work really well and will probably break this anxiety and I should press for it or get it from my uro to get started and go from there. Any products out there that might help me out? Right now am using benzos like xanax just to get through my day, and I dont want to do that.

For what it's worth I did my nomral shot this am of 80 mg and actually fely norma for a few hours , but then the anxiety settled back in again.

Please, please, please, someone help me here.

Thank you!

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Xerxes

None of those blood test values can explain your anxiety and insomnia issues.

Are you under a lot of stress? Did you recently stop any medications? Are you taking any potential stimulants?

 

[Vince]

My opinion your E2 looks pretty good, I'm wondering what's causing your anxiety and insomnia? You have been on testosterone since June 16th so up to a week ago how were you feeling?

 

[Xerxes]

Thank you for responding. I think I must be very sensitive to e2.. Maybe with my sbhg less than 25 I need to keep e2 lower? My number was 26 about a month ago (tested at a clinic I was researching) and I didnt feel great at the time... Then I upped my dose with doctor's orders from 100 to 160 mg week and felt great for a while, then anxiety started to creep up... Then absolute crash some last week. The only thing I can see different is the higher e2. I am planning on reducing dose and increasing frequency of shots to 3/week from 2. I might want to seek out an AI As well is this dim and calcium d glucarate doesn't work well...I'm really suffering right now.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Thank you for responding. I think I must be very sensitive to e2.. Maybe with my sbhg less than 25 I need to keep e2 lower? My number was 26 about a month ago (tested at a clinic I was researching) and I didnt feel great at the time... Then I upped my dose with doctor's orders from 100 to 160 mg week and felt great for a while, then anxiety started to creep up... Then absolute crash some last week. The only thing I can see different is the higher e2. I am planning on reducing dose and increasing frequency of shots to 3/week from 2. I might want to seek out an AI As well is this dim and calcium d glucarate doesn't work well...I'm really suffering right now.

If you need more than just a bit of extra clearance in regard to estradiol, if you convert quickly and heavily, DIM (or any other OTC AI) is not going to do much at all for you. Be patient. Adjustments made quickly often result in an unanticipated problem arising down the road. Split your protocol into even more shots per week, watch and monitor. If you can pull E2 down without another drug to monitor you'll be better off.

 

[Vince]

I agree I would not use an AI, personally I think injecting twice a week is plenty and wouldn't split it up anymore. Your total testosterone is not too high, so why lower it. I would consider raising it when your anxiety is gone.

 

[James]

Xerxes - I too took that dose and had horrible insomnia and anxiety, yet my numbers looked great. Adjusting hormones is serious stuff and there seems to be tremendous subjective opinion on proper dose and serum levels. What works great for one guy doesn't for another. What helped me was a low dose of Arimidex. Ask your doc about a small dose of 1/8 mg with injection if you're injecting twice weekly. Maybe up to 1/4 mg if symptoms persist. I'm convinced AI is a necessary evil, but DO NOT overdue it, tanking your E2 is equally bad.

 

[Xerxes]

James, thanks for responding. I might try to go the arimidex route if I don't get some relief soon. Do you take the Arimidex with every shot? Or only when your e2 numbers/symptoms pop up? Did you reduce dose and increase frequency of shots as well? Did your anxiety and insomnia break very quickly after taking the arimidex? Thank you soooo much!

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Xerxes

You should give L-theanine a try when you are anxious.

http://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2006/1/report_theanine/page-01

 

[Xerxes]

Will do. much healthier than rx anxiety meds.. Hopes they work as well. Thank you so much for your replies and for running this site. We newbies really need it.. I hope this all works out for me... It's really hard right now.

 

[James]

I take it with every shot. I know studies show E2 peaking after a certain number of hours after your shot, but through personal experience, taking a super small dose of AI with my shot seems to work best for me. I've been on a few different protocols and the one I'm on now I experience no anxiety, but when I was taking 160 mg a week and not taking an AI, holy cow my anxiety and depression were really bad. I even had suicidal thoughts. I never had that prior to TRT. I tried to stay away from the AI, but when I finally took it (I think it was 1/2 mg back then), I felt almost instantly my anxiety go down. I'm sure people will cite studies that says it doesn't work that quickly, but for me I just felt so much better. Again everyone is different. I personally function best on a lower dose of test with a very low dose is Arimidex. TRT can be awesome if you get properly dialed in for your body chemistry and can be not so good if your protocol is off. Thing is, you just got to jump in and see how you do with a particular dosing schedule, have patience and make adjustments from there.

 

[shilda]

Xerxes,

How are you doing now? I experienced the same symptoms with an E2 level of 43. I increased my dose of Anastrazole, and the anxiety decreased, but the insomnia is still reallly bad. Has your insomnia gotten better?

 

[Xerxes]

Hi Shilda,
My insomnia and anxiety has gotten much better. I actually do not take very much arimidex at this point. Lowering my dose and and splitting it into 3 shots a week rather than two helped a lot. I was doing 160mg split into two shorts a week, after my anxiety and insomnia I now do 120 split into three shots (40 mg MWF). I now only really take the arimidex when I start to have (my) high e2 symtoms, which are anxiety, sleep disruption, ed-issues, nipple tenderness, and water retention. Even then I really only take a very small does (1/8 mg) the evening after a shot or the morning after...if sypmtoms persist i take another 1/8 after next shot...I have to emphasis that you need to be careful with arimidex b/c a little goes a long way (at least for me). I think maybe a month ago I was low for a week after taking three 1/8 mg in one week...that was not fun...just felt totally emotionally flat, and my penis was lifeless. I came back in about a week a started to feel good again..in fact really good...just earlier this week I had to take another 1/8 mg, but feel pretty good again. I'd say I probably take arimidex once or twice a month at this point...based on symptoms.

In terms of the sleeping, I've found that keeping the E2 symptoms in check helps, but I also use melatonin or a calming sleeo formula from trader joe's that has theanine and melatonin (it works very well), When my sleep seems really out of whack, I do have a srcript for Klonopin which I use once in a blue. I actually find it much milder for me than xanax, which I used to use.

Hope this helps! This board is a really great source of information and almost all of the guys here have a lot more experience and expertise than I do...good luck!

fyi, what is your protocol and/or blood work numbers? That's often helpful to the guys on the board suggesting things that might help. But obviously always consult a doctor for any medical decisions.

 

[shilda]

Since I had insomnia before TRT, my Dr. wants me to do further lab tests (Thyroid, Cortisol, Etc.). It looks like I am stopping treatment until this gets sorted out. He said that I should return to baseline in about a month, so hopefully the insomnia gets better and I get back to where I started. I'm glad that you are doing good. Take care.

 

[eli]

I really think it's your E2 man. If I were you, I'd personally risk and take .25mg of Adex to see how it works... if Anxiety and Insomnia go away then it means your body doesn't like E2 being 42

 

[Vitamin_C]

Since I had insomnia before TRT, my Dr. wants me to do further lab tests (Thyroid, Cortisol, Etc.). It looks like I am stopping treatment until this gets sorted out. He said that I should return to baseline in about a month, so hopefully the insomnia gets better and I get back to where I started. I'm glad that you are doing good. Take care.

How long have you been on TRT and what was your regimen?

 

[leanguy]

If your E2 test was not "sensitive" or "ultrasensitive", it is difficult to interpret the results. On a side note, your DHEA is on the low side and this can contribute to insomnia because it is necessary to balance out the effects of cortisol.

 

[Vince Carter]

I was going to say a sensitive test, which this was not, would probably be closer to 33-35 which most interpret as ideal.

 

[ipi]

Is armidex and anastrazole the same thing?

 

[Vince]

Anastrazole is the generic for armidex