Pituitary restart while on TRT: promising initial results with GnRH plus enclomiphene

[Cataceous]

That all makes sense. Where do you get the extra sterile bottles from?

I've had good results with the Ultra Spec vials from here.

 

[Dicky]

I've had good results with the Ultra Spec vials from here.

Thank you. that's a big help

 

[Observer]

Smaller vials are usually not an option. Instead you hydrate the 10 mg vial and then divide the contents into—for example—10 sterile vials, including the original one. You refrigerate the original vial and use it first. You freeze the others and then thaw and use them sequentially as they are needed. For me the 1 mg of kisspeptin-10 lasts about 20 days, which is within the official recommendation of 30 days from first puncture for any injectable that hasn't undergone specific testing. Freezing effectively stops the clock until you thaw it.

When you separate the hydrated 10 mg vial into 10 separate vials, for the 9 that you freeze, is there a specific amount of water you use for the freezing process that's less than a fully reconstituted amount? By that I mean, do you use a full 2-3 ml for the vials going into the freezer, or do you use the lesser amount that originated from when you split up the 10 mg?

 

[Cataceous]

When you separate the hydrated 10 mg vial into 10 separate vials, for the 9 that you freeze, is there a specific amount of water you use for the freezing process that's less than a fully reconstituted amount? By that I mean, do you use a full 2-3 ml for the vials going into the freezer, or do you use the lesser amount that originated from when you split up the 10 mg?

I typically freeze peptides fully hydrated. It's more for efficiency/convenience than because it's better. It may even be worse, though hopefully only trivially. I've frozen some proteins, where the recommendation is for a higher concentration for better stability. But peptides are more stable, so I doubt it makes a practical difference.

For example, suppose you want 10 µg dose resolution with 0.3 cc U-100 syringes, and the 10 mg of kisspeptin-10 comes in a 2 mL vial. Hydrate the vial with 2 mL of bacteriostatic water, then withdraw all of the fluid into a syringe to ensure you still have close to 2 mL, then inject 0.2 mL into the original vial and nine other new sterile vials. At this point each vial should contain 1 mg of kisspeptin-10. Now you could just freeze the nine vials and add more bac water later upon thawing. But I prefer to add 0.8 mL of bac water to every vial and then freeze nine of them. Then they are ready to go immediately after thawing, with 10 µg of kisspeptin-10 per unit in the insulin syringe.

My actual procedure is complicated by the use of multiple peptides, so I end up using a 10 mL vial for mixing them all together, and this ends up being the first vial used. I also run additional bac water through each original peptide vial to ensure more complete removal of the product—that is, one mL gets most of it, and then a second mL gets most of the residual, and both go into the 10 mL mixing vial.

In the case of gonadorelin I have determined via quantitative results that there is no discernible difference between the product that has been frozen versus one that was used immediately after hydration.

 

[Observer]

I typically freeze peptides fully hydrated. It's more for efficiency/convenience than because it's better. It may even be worse, though hopefully only trivially. I've frozen some proteins, where the recommendation is for a higher concentration for better stability. But peptides are more stable, so I doubt it makes a practical difference.

For example, suppose you want 10 µg dose resolution with 0.3 cc U-100 syringes, and the 10 mg of kisspeptin-10 comes in a 2 mL vial. Hydrate the vial with 2 mL of bacteriostatic water, then withdraw all of the fluid into a syringe to ensure you still have close to 2 mL, then inject 0.2 mL into the original vial and nine other new sterile vials. At this point each vial should contain 1 mg of kisspeptin-10. Now you could just freeze the nine vials and add more bac water later upon thawing. But I prefer to add 0.8 mL of bac water to every vial and then freeze nine of them. Then they are ready to go immediately after thawing, with 10 µg of kisspeptin-10 per unit in the insulin syringe.

My actual procedure is complicated by the use of multiple peptides, so I end up using a 10 mL vial for mixing them all together, and this ends up being the first vial used. I also run additional bac water through each original peptide vial to ensure more complete removal of the product—that is, one mL gets most of it, and then a second mL gets most of the residual, and both go into the 10 mL mixing vial.

In the case of gonadorelin I have determined via quantitative results that there is no discernible difference between the product that has been frozen versus one that was used immediately after hydration.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. That's helpful.

I should have clarified that my concern was regarding peptide stability while in the freezer with higher or lower concentration, but it looks like you inferred that in your response. I agree that it's likely not a big difference either way. And freezing the 9 vials with the final amount of water intended for use makes it easier to just pop them into the fridge when their individual turn comes.