Peptides for arthritis?

[Keepfit1]

has anyone used with success any peptides for arthiritic hip, according to scan and surgeon I have mild to medium arthirits in left hip and wondered if anyone can recommend anything that helps?, trying to avoid the big knife!

 

[Cataceous]

This study on hydrolyzed collagen showed some benefits at 10 grams/day. The stuff is pretty inexpensive at Bulk Supplements. Possibly worth a try. For pain relief you could try palmitoylethanolamide. None of the peptides did much for me. Of course there's also glucosamine and MSM, though I don't notice much from either.

As things degenerate further you can also try injections of hyaluronic acid. I wouldn't do the steroids—they may just accelerate the degradation.

Finally, if you get to bone-on-bone and are suffering then just do the surgery. Quite a few of us regret putting it off, given the good results. I recommend Birmingham Hip Resurfacing if you become a candidate.

Hip Replacement Surgery Experiences

I have been postponing it for a year but going for it this Monday. Right hip. Posterior. MRI showed some deterioration (age-related arthritis) plus a cyst. I am 63 but in good shape. No hip injuries or events I can point to. Have done two injections that helped for two months each. Pain is...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Search on the "Fixes for joint Issues" thread here. Eliminating inflammatory foods that may be manifesting as joint pain is step one. BPC, DMSO, and TB500 are all worth a try. The first two helped me a lot. Stretching has helped my hip, as has the adductor/abductor machine. Look into Intra-articular growth hormone injections where HGH is injected directly into the joint capsule. There was recently a replay of the episode of Superhumanradio.net that covered this. I have also found the peptides that stimulate growth hormone secretion to be helpful.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

i dont know, but read this.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

i dont know, but read this.

Yes, boron is another thing that seems to help a lot of people

 

[sammmy]

Boron is anti-inflammatory i.e. mild immunosuppresant - that's why it might help.

I would suggest completely eliminating, not just reducing, foods that contain glucose, sucrose (table sugar), added sugar, fructose (fruits), lactose (milk, yogurt, butter, cheese). Read the labels in detail - they put sugar in these forms in almost anything - they even glaze chicken with glucose (as "dextrose"). That means you will have to buy raw unprocessed food and cook it yourself. Also, some vegetables like corn and carrots contain a lot of natural sugar, so avoid those. Again read the label.

See how you feel after a month on that diet. Fast sugars like these seem to feed and activate the immune system and it starts attacking left and right, which may manifest as arthritis or worsen one that is already developed.

 

[Keepfit1]

This study on hydrolyzed collagen showed some benefits at 10 grams/day. The stuff is pretty inexpensive at Bulk Supplements. Possibly worth a try. For pain relief you could try palmitoylethanolamide. None of the peptides did much for me. Of course there's also glucosamine and MSM, though I don't notice much from either.

As things degenerate further you can also try injections of hyaluronic acid. I wouldn't do the steroids—they may just accelerate the degradation.

Finally, if you get to bone-on-bone and are suffering then just do the surgery. Quite a few of us regret putting it off, given the good results. I recommend Birmingham Hip Resurfacing if you become a candidate.

Hip Replacement Surgery Experiences

I have been postponing it for a year but going for it this Monday. Right hip. Posterior. MRI showed some deterioration (age-related arthritis) plus a cyst. I am 63 but in good shape. No hip injuries or events I can point to. Have done two injections that helped for two months each. Pain is...

www.excelmale.com

thanks for input, I read the Birmingham hip is for under 60?, im 65 but fit etc, I also heard with the Birmingham over they years the small bits of metal come off surface and enter bloodstream which can cause issues. I heard its better for sport though, i exercise a lot and used to jog so interested in that aspect. Whats your experience been like with it, how long from op to back to gym etc

 

[Keepfit1]

I don’t know anything about this but it may be worth looking into the effects of beef bone broth (homemade not store bought) on arthritis. All of the natural collagen and gelatin sounds intuitively like it would help with arthritis. But again, I have no idea. Just a thought.

thanks , yes bone broth is probably good idea

 

[Keepfit1]

Boron is anti-inflammatory i.e. mild immunosuppresant - that's why it might help.

I would suggest completely eliminating, not just reducing, foods that contain glucose, sucrose (table sugar), added sugar, fructose (fruits), lactose (milk, yogurt, butter, cheese). Read the labels in detail - they put sugar in these forms in almost anything - they even glaze chicken with glucose (as "dextrose"). That means you will have to buy raw unprocessed food and cook it yourself. Also, some vegetables like corn and carrots contain a lot of natural sugar, so avoid those. Again read the label.

See how you feel after a month on that diet. Fast sugars like these seem to feed and activate the immune system and it starts attacking left and right, which may manifest as arthritis or worsen one that is already developed.

I already eat like that but good advice for anyone,thanks

 

[Keepfit1]

Search on the "Fixes for joint Issues" thread here. Eliminating inflammatory foods that may be manifesting as joint pain is step one. BPC, DMSO, and TB500 are all worth a try. The first two helped me a lot. Stretching has helped my hip, as has the adductor/abductor machine. Look into Intra-articular growth hormone injections where HGH is injected directly into the joint capsule. There was recently a replay of the episode of Superhumanradio.net that covered this. I have also found the peptides that stimulate growth hormone secretion to be helpful.

I have actually bought some BPC and TB500 and Ipamorelin and non Dac CJC, havnt taken it yet, started with Ipa 100mcg at night but as previously posted it strung me out and felt more stressed after only 5 nights. Might try it in the morning instead. After I had the Ipa and CJC bedded in I was going to add BPC and TB500, although I heard that is it TB4 is better?What doses were you on and what does the DMSO do. I will check out that on Superhumanradio thanks

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

I have actually bought some BPC and TB500 and Ipamorelin and non Dac CJC, havnt taken it yet, started with Ipa 100mcg at night but as previously posted it strung me out and felt more stressed after only 5 nights. Might try it in the morning instead. After I had the Ipa and CJC bedded in I was going to add BPC and TB500, although I heard that is it TB4 is better?What doses were you on and what does the DMSO do. I will check out that on Superhumanradio thanks

TB500 is the commercially available version of Thymosin Beta 4, so TB500 is the only option. I used about 500mcg of BPC injectable at a time. I also used the topical patch version and even though in theory it should not pass through the skin since it is a fairly large molecule, it did seem to help my hip, so I don't know what is going on there.

I don't know the exact mechanism for DMSO except that it seems to be an all-purpose orthopedic healer, which is cheap and very low risk. It may take a few weeks to show affect however, but it is one of my injury first-line go-to compounds.

I also forgot to add that I have been having very good results recently with topical ***, much better than oral. At first I thought it was just covering the pain, but it seems to have a long-lasting affect, so maybe it aids the healing process. I use the roll-on from Noel Creek.

All that said, if I had a more severe issue that did not resolve, HGH, whether intra- articular or systemic seems like a lower risk option before surgery, and you would likely want to have some on hand anyway to speed the healing form surgery if you did end up needing surgery.

Stem cells are another thing to investigate and (Regenexx) seems like a credible outfit, although even there you would want to be using the other compounds listed here to maximize the chances of success.

 

[Cataceous]

thanks for input, I read the Birmingham hip is for under 60?, im 65 but fit etc, I also heard with the Birmingham over they years the small bits of metal come off surface and enter bloodstream which can cause issues. I heard its better for sport though, i exercise a lot and used to jog so interested in that aspect. Whats your experience been like with it, how long from op to back to gym etc

I was 60 and they still did my BHR. The manufacturer mentions that implant "survivorship for men under the age of 65 is comparable to - and in many cases, better than - standard total hip replacements after ten years of use." I expect doctors evaluate on a case-by-case basis whether the implant is appropriate, and won't necessarily view age alone as disqualifying. Metallosis doesn't seem to be a big problem with the Birmingham implant—as long as it's put in correctly. Other metal-on-metal (MoM) implants with poor designs have done far worse and have tarnished the technology as a result. There are newer resurfacing implants using different materials, but these might not be available yet.

There are posts about my experience in the thread I linked to above:

Hip Replacement Surgery Experiences

I have been postponing it for a year but going for it this Monday. Right hip. Posterior. MRI showed some deterioration (age-related arthritis) plus a cyst. I am 63 but in good shape. No hip injuries or events I can point to. Have done two injections that helped for two months each. Pain is...

www.excelmale.com

Hip Replacement Surgery Experiences

How is your recovery going Cataceous? ... So fingers crossed, although i'd rather not need surgery at all, if i end up having to, and i'm a suitable candidate, i might get the doctor who invented the proceedure. So far I am very happy with the results. With debilitation coming on slowly I...

www.excelmale.com

Hip Replacement Surgery Experiences

How is your recovery going Cataceous? ... So fingers crossed, although i'd rather not need surgery at all, if i end up having to, and i'm a suitable candidate, i might get the doctor who invented the proceedure. So far I am very happy with the results. With debilitation coming on slowly I...

www.excelmale.com

By the way, I spent a lot of money on Regenxx stem cell treatments, but they didn't stop the one hip from progressing to bone-on-bone. I had four other joints done too. It's possible they are better off than without, but that is uncertain.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

To add to some of the good suggestions there is currently being research done on humans using the peptide AOD-9604, which is a modified form Growth Hormone which is a 191 amino acid peptide in treating arthritis and osteoarthritis. I just recently learned about this and would like to give it a try but they are using intra-articular injections.

Joint Pain and Function​

Research in rats indicates that injections of AOD9604 directly into arthritic joints can work in synergy with existing therapies to improve pain, reduce disability, and improve quality of life. Changes in both gross clinical exam and microscopic structure of cartilage in the affected joints indicates that AOD9604 is effective in treating the root cause of osteoarthritis and may work as both a treatment and preventative. Though AOD9604 is effective in reducing joint dysfunction on its own, it works better in combination with other therapies. It isn’t clear how the synergy arises, but additional research using the peptide may reveal novel pathways for improving cartilage growth, a notoriously challenging clinical problem.

Effect of Intra-articular Injection of AOD9604 with or without Hyaluronic Acid in Rabbit Osteoarthritis Model - PubMed

Intra-articular AOD9604 injections using ultrasound guidance enhanced cartilage regeneration, and combined AOD9604 and HA injections were more effective than HA or AOD9604 injections alone in the collagenase-induced knee OA rabbit model.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

To add to some of the good suggestions there is currently being research done on humans using the peptide AOD-9604, which is a modified form Growth Hormone which is a 191 amino acid peptide in treating arthritis and osteoarthritis. I just recently learned about this and would like to give it a try but they are using intra-articular injections.

Joint Pain and Function​

Research in rats indicates that injections of AOD9604 directly into arthritic joints can work in synergy with existing therapies to improve pain, reduce disability, and improve quality of life. Changes in both gross clinical exam and microscopic structure of cartilage in the affected joints indicates that AOD9604 is effective in treating the root cause of osteoarthritis and may work as both a treatment and preventative. Though AOD9604 is effective in reducing joint dysfunction on its own, it works better in combination with other therapies. It isn’t clear how the synergy arises, but additional research using the peptide may reveal novel pathways for improving cartilage growth, a notoriously challenging clinical problem.

Effect of Intra-articular Injection of AOD9604 with or without Hyaluronic Acid in Rabbit Osteoarthritis Model - PubMed

Intra-articular AOD9604 injections using ultrasound guidance enhanced cartilage regeneration, and combined AOD9604 and HA injections were more effective than HA or AOD9604 injections alone in the collagenase-induced knee OA rabbit model.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I'm curious why they would use a subset of HGH rather than HGH itself, unless they are just trying to make it proprietary. Even so, it sounds like a step in the right direction. According to Dr. Dunn in the interview I mentioned above linked here (SHR #2989: Don't Get that Joint Replacement Just Yet ), it was the acromegaly/joint crowding that can come from HGH that made him realize HGH might therapeutically regrow joint tissue. He has passed away I believe but he described the procedure he used in enough detail to replicate.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

I was 60 and they still did my BHR. The manufacturer mentions that implant "survivorship for men under the age of 65 is comparable to - and in many cases, better than - standard total hip replacements after ten years of use." I expect doctors evaluate on a case-by-case basis whether the implant is appropriate, and won't necessarily view age alone as disqualifying. Metallosis doesn't seem to be a big problem with the Birmingham implant—as long as it's put in correctly. Other metal-on-metal (MoM) implants with poor designs have done far worse and have tarnished the technology as a result. There are newer resurfacing implants using different materials, but these might not be available yet.

There are posts about my experience in the thread I linked to above:

Hip Replacement Surgery Experiences

I have been postponing it for a year but going for it this Monday. Right hip. Posterior. MRI showed some deterioration (age-related arthritis) plus a cyst. I am 63 but in good shape. No hip injuries or events I can point to. Have done two injections that helped for two months each. Pain is...

www.excelmale.com

Hip Replacement Surgery Experiences

How is your recovery going Cataceous? ... So fingers crossed, although i'd rather not need surgery at all, if i end up having to, and i'm a suitable candidate, i might get the doctor who invented the proceedure. So far I am very happy with the results. With debilitation coming on slowly I...

www.excelmale.com

Hip Replacement Surgery Experiences

How is your recovery going Cataceous? ... So fingers crossed, although i'd rather not need surgery at all, if i end up having to, and i'm a suitable candidate, i might get the doctor who invented the proceedure. So far I am very happy with the results. With debilitation coming on slowly I...

www.excelmale.com

By the way, I spent a lot of money on Regenxx stem cell treatments, but they didn't stop the one hip from progressing to bone-on-bone. I had four other joints done too. It's possible they are better off than without, but that is uncertain.

Yes, in reading the Regenexx blog, they completely ignore or are dismissive of making sure that the body's own regenerative landscape is in good order. If I was going to do stem cells I would use the compounds above, especially HGH at the same time, but it sounds like a patient would have to source them separately and most patients would not even know it was an option.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

I'm curious why they would use a subset of HGH rather than HGH itself, unless they are just trying to make it proprietary. Even so, it sounds like a step in the right direction. According to Dr. Dunn in the interview I mentioned above linked here (SHR #2989: Don't Get that Joint Replacement Just Yet ), it was the acromegaly/joint crowding that can come from HGH that made him realize HGH might therapeutically regrow joint tissue. He has passed away I believe but he described the procedure he used in enough detail to replicate.

Good question. I have my doubts about any of the peptides working very well. The problem I have with HGH is having to go intra articular injections. In not sure how many doctors are going to be willing to do HGH injections that way especially if it has to be guided by ultrasound (expensive). Getting the HGH prescribed for this purpose would be impossible. So the AOD9604 would be easier to purchase unless you go the UG route. In that case HGH is much cheaper than paying $45 for 5mg of AOD9604. I have had intra articular injections done many times and I do notice with the triamcinolone (long acting cortisone) it goes systemic in less than 24 hours. Perhaps microdosing around the pain would eventually have the same effect. I have already tried BPC157 and it was ineffective. But then I have also used HGH many times and it did not help.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Good question. I have my doubts about any of the peptides working very well. The problem I have with HGH is having to go intra articular injections. In not sure how many doctors are going to be willing to do HGH injections that way especially if it has to be guided by ultrasound (expensive). Getting the HGH prescribed for this purpose would be impossible. So the AOD9604 would be easier to purchase unless you go the UG route. In that case HGH is much cheaper than paying $45 for 5mg of AOD9604. I have had intra articular injections done many times and I do notice with the triamcinolone (long acting cortisone) it goes systemic in less than 24 hours. Perhaps microdosing around the pain would eventually have the same effect. I have already tried BPC157 and it was ineffective. But then I have also used HGH many times and it did not help.

I was driving while I listened to the podcast I linked above but here is what I remember/understand:
- I don't remember him saying anything about ultrasound guidance. To the contrary I think he said he injected into the knee capsule which to my layman's understanding would mean that it would mix with the synovial fluid and bathe the tissues in HGH that way. That makes sense since stem cells are often targeted at a very specific thing like a meniscus tear whereas the intent of the HGH is to create more generalized growth and repair.
- He said there are about 30 states where HGH can be used off-label for this purpose, however I think the interview was a re-broadcast and was originally done around 2010 so this may have changed. I have also heard that there are doctors that will inject you provided you supply the HGH.
- He said the the HGH stays fairly local in the joint for about 5 days
- His standard protocol was ( I think) 10-15IU injected weekly for three weeks
- A lot of the Stem Cell procedures that are not approved in the US are approved in the Cayman Islands so perhaps that is an option for HGH.
- I believe cortisone damages local stem cells so it seems reasonable to think that people who have had a lot of cortisone shots may be less likely to respond.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Do you think there are any HRT clinics that would offer HGH for arthritis/osteoarthritis? Curious if any clinics like Defy are on the cutting edge of this as well.

I don't know, and even if there aren't, going outside the US, perhaps to the Cayman's might be an option. Of the Doctors I have heard interviewed on related topics, Dr. Elizabeth Yurth in Boulder Co sounds like and excellent choice to start with, so doing a phone consult with her might be a good place to start. She has an orthopedic background, is at the leading edge of peptides, and seems like a very solid thinker. There are lots of interviews with her on the SuperHumanRadio.net site.

 

[Keepfit1]

TB500 is the commercially available version of Thymosin Beta 4, so TB500 is the only option. I used about 500mcg of BPC injectable at a time. I also used the topical patch version and even though in theory it should not pass through the skin since it is a fairly large molecule, it did seem to help my hip, so I don't know what is going on there.

I don't know the exact mechanism for DMSO except that it seems to be an all-purpose orthopedic healer, which is cheap and very low risk. It may take a few weeks to show affect however, but it is one of my injury first-line go-to compounds.

I also forgot to add that I have been having very good results recently with topical ***, much better than oral. At first I thought it was just covering the pain, but it seems to have a long-lasting affect, so maybe it aids the healing process. I use the roll-on from Noel Creek.

All that said, if I had a more severe issue that did not resolve, HGH, whether intra- articular or systemic seems like a lower risk option before surgery, and you would likely want to have some on hand anyway to speed the healing form surgery if you did end up needing surgery.

Stem cells are another thing to investigate and (Regenexx) seems like a credible outfit, although even there you would want to be using the other compounds listed here to maximize the chances of success.

oky thanks

 

[Deleted member 43589]

I was driving while I listened to the podcast I linked above but here is what I remember/understand:
- I don't remember him saying anything about ultrasound guidance. To the contrary I think he said he injected into the knee capsule which to my layman's understanding would mean that it would mix with the synovial fluid and bath the tissues in HGH that way. That makes sense since stem cells are often targeted at a very specific thing like a meniscus tear whereas the intent of the HGH is to create more generalized growth and repair.
- He said there are about 30 states where HGH can be used off-label for this purpose, however I think the interview was a re-broadcast and was originally done around 2010 so this may have changed. I have also heard that there are doctors that will inject you provided you supply the HGH.
- He said the the HGH stays fairly local in the joint for about 5 days
- His standard protocol was ( I think) 10-15IU injected weekly for three weeks
- A lot of the Stem Cell procedures that are not approved in the US are approved in the Cayman Islands so perhaps that is an option for HGH.
- I believe cortisone damages local stem cells so it seems reasonable to think that people who have had a lot of cortisone shots may be less likely to respond.

I go every 6 months to get inter-articular injections in the left knee. That seems relatively easy to do. I tried the same hyaluronic injections in the shoulder and they had to use the ultrasound guided method. Pretty complicated.

I did find this out about prescribing HGH:

In 1988 and 1990, FDA amended the Food, Drugs, and Cosmetic Act after researchers revealed an unforced law that physicians and entrepreneurs were exploiting. As a result, a provision was put so that HGH can be prescribed only for three conditions:

1. HGH deficiency in children might result in dwarfism
2. Adult HGH deficiency due to tumors in the brain and their treatment like radiation therapy
3. Muscle wasting illness related to HIV/AIDS

I have tried several different times to get a prescription for HGH and doctors don't even want to discuss it. No doubt even if you could talk a doctor into it, insurance would not cover it. Doctor seem to be scared of discussing this one. I am glad you mentioned the dosing he suggested. 10-15 iu/wk = about 2iu/d. Which is about what most use for life extension. I did 4iu/d for a few years and as I mentioned had no results. But then it has gotten a lot worse since I stopped the HGH. Not sure if that had anything to do with it. Yes I got a cortisone shot maybe 4 weeks ago and this time it did nothing to help. I got 3 injections last year (every 4 months) and 1 this year so far. The hyaluronic injections in the shoulder did nothing but in the knee it is great.

I am thinking about getting 3 kits of HGH and doing 2iu microdoses in the shoulder and seeing if that has any effect. I did a similar technique after knee surgery with GH/IGF-1/MGF a few years back and it increased healing greatly.