New guy with Estradiol question/problem

[WB134]

Back in 2015 my T was at 484 and doc said that was fine and not knowing better I said okay.

About four months ago I started back at gym but had little energy/drive so I looked into TRT. My GP started me on 100mg/week IM and in the third week I felt GREAT. Energy, drive, the wife was holding me off with a chair and whip.

And then some ED issues popped up (difficulty getting/staying hard, reduced sensitivity, loss of desire).

Here I am about three months into TRT and I had a full blood work up.

T is 560
Free T is 15.6
Estradiol is 32
SHBG is 28.5
Hematocirt is 44

My biggest problem besides the ED issues is my emotions are nonsensical. Yesterday I was sick and while looking through the medicine cabinet I started crying. The oddest things are triggering tears.

I have read that high estrogen can cause the ED and emotional issues but mine is at 32 which is at the higher end of the range but within range. Someone suggested my T to E ratio is off thus causing my issues.

I inject on Tuesday afternoons and my blood draw was done first thing Tuesday morning when my levels would be at their lowest so if my estradiaol is at 32 on Tuesday morning how high is at before then?

BTW, I am 5'10" 172lbs. When I started TRT I was at 149.

ETA: My doc is on vacation for a few weeks so I talked with her nurse and suggested adding HCG and Ariminex. HCG to keep my own production going and Ariminex to lower my estradiol. The nurse said doc would probably not prescribe the Ariminex because it's not listed for use in lowering estradiol in men.

 

[Vince]

You have the wrong estradiol test, you need the sensitive estradiol test for men. You should also be splitting the dose of testosterone and inject every three and half days. Learn to do it on your own, no need to go to your doctor for injections.
Oh by the way your testosterone still looks pretty low.

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...d-be-Tested-with-the-Sensitive-Estradiol-Test

 

[WB134]

The Labcorp paperwork says it was a sensitive test, is there a different test for men and women?

I too thought my T would come back higher. I do my own injections and will be switching to 2X/week

 

[ScottM]

Is it just the 100mg every week? Which esther (Cyp/Enan/Prop)? Which oil is it dissolved in (Cotton seed, Sesame, Grape)? What length needle are you using and which injection site?

What else are you taking? Does he/she have you on anything else? Are you taking any supplements on your own?

-Scott M
-Telthera

 

[madman]

Back in 2015 my T was at 484 and doc said that was fine and not knowing better I said okay.

About four months ago I started back at gym but had little energy/drive so I looked into TRT. My GP started me on 100mg/week IM and in the third week I felt GREAT. Energy, drive, the wife was holding me off with a chair and whip.

And then some ED issues popped up (difficulty getting/staying hard, reduced sensitivity, loss of desire).

Here I am about three months into TRT and I had a full blood work up.

T is 560
Free T is 15.6
Estradiol is 32
SHBG is 28.5
Hematocirt is 44

My biggest problem besides the ED issues is my emotions are nonsensical. Yesterday I was sick and while looking through the medicine cabinet I started crying. The oddest things are triggering tears.

I have read that high estrogen can cause the ED and emotional issues but mine is at 32 which is at the higher end of the range but within range. Someone suggested my T to E ratio is off thus causing my issues.

I inject on Tuesday afternoons and my blood draw was done first thing Tuesday morning when my levels would be at their lowest so if my estradiaol is at 32 on Tuesday morning how high is at before then?

BTW, I am 5'10" 172lbs. When I started TRT I was at 149.

ETA: My doc is on vacation for a few weeks so I talked with her nurse and suggested adding HCG and Ariminex. HCG to keep my own production going and Ariminex to lower my estradiol. The nurse said doc would probably not prescribe the Ariminex because it's not listed for use in lowering estradiol in men.

If you gained 23lbs in a little under 3 months since starting trt you must be holding a fair amount of water bloat. I would look into your e2 deeper?

 

[Vince]

You should add ranges to your labs. I wouldn't worry about estradiol at 32, it's not high, you may want to add HCG along with protocol.

 

[WB134]

Is it just the 100mg every week? Which esther (Cyp/Enan/Prop)? Which oil is it dissolved in (Cotton seed, Sesame, Grape)? What length needle are you using and which injection site?

What else are you taking? Does he/she have you on anything else? Are you taking any supplements on your own?

Yes 100mg week. Cyp. No idea on oil. 1" in butt. No. I take a daily multivitamin, 50mg zinc, B12 tablet.

 

[WB134]

If you gained 23lbs in a little under 3 months since starting trt you must be holding a fair amount of water bloat. I would look into your e2 deeper?

I don't feel or look bloated. My stomach is still flat

 

[WB134]

You should add ranges to your labs. I wouldn't worry about estradiol at 32, it's not high, you may want to add HCG along with protocol.

I'm waiting to hear back from the doc's nurse regarding the hcg and ariminex. May have to source them on my own

 

[Vince Carter]

I would go advise being very very careful with Anastrozole/Arimidex as it is extremely powerful in men even in minute doses, and can kill your E very easily if you're already at 32, which is not high. I would further advise to ride it out with some more time of this steady protocol and retest in a month. AI isn't something you can toss around because you got a little misty here and there. Men hurt themselves with this drug all the time.

 

[ScottM]

Depending on your body composition, I have seen some people unable to fully reach the muscle with a 1" when injecting the glute, you might want to consider a 1.5". Also, have you tried Vitamin D and DIM to your regimen and see if that helps? Something to consider before you start playing with something more potent like an AI.

Yes 100mg week. Cyp. No idea on oil. 1" in butt. No. I take a daily multivitamin, 50mg zinc, B12 tablet.

 

[WB134]

Depending on your body composition, I have seen some people unable to fully reach the muscle with a 1" when injecting the glute, you might want to consider a 1.5". Also, have you tried Vitamin D and DIM to your regimen and see if that helps? Something to consider before you start playing with something more potent like an AI.

Thin build, not much of a butt and I use the upper outer quadrant. When I first started I was using a 1.5" and doc said to go about half way in but that was with a 22ga. I order some 1" 25ga and fully insert.

No vitamin D and I've never heard of DIM. I just checked my multivitamin and it provides 100% of daily vitamin D.

 

[ScottM]

OK, good to hear that you're getting the full dose IM.

I would still get a Vitamin D level if you can, most people are chronically low even with 100% vitamin D supplementation (typicaly Vitamin D only supplements are 4-5x that).

I will start by saying that DIM is pretty disputed, and a lot of people say they don't "see or feel anything" but I believe it gets a bad wrap because it's primary benefit is undersold and its secondary benefit is undersold. People take DIM expecting to see a marked decrease in Estradiol, but that's not really its true benefit.

As I said, people often expect DIM to lower their estradiol and it can, by mildly inhibiting aromatase, but not in a competitive way like a true AI.

The real benefit of DIM is that it acts on the estrogen metabolite pathway, helping to support the conversion of your active estrogens into the "good" estrogens vs the "bad" estrogens.

A lesser known and lesser studied benefit which I cautiously mention is that it can work on the LH pathway to help support testicular volume and function.

-Scott
Telthera

 

[Gman86]

I would test your free estradiol, as well as total next time. With your SHBG being on the lower end, you are not only going to have a lot of unbound free testosterone (which is good), but you are going to have a lot of unbound free estradiol (which can cause problems). Guys with a low SHBG might feel symptoms of high estradiol even when their total estradiol is only slightly above the normal range. Compared to men with high SHBG, which can have higher total estradiol levels and not feel the symptoms as much because a lot of the estradiol is bound and not active. Also, the RDA for Vitamin D is a joke, it's like 600iu. You should be taking minimum 6,000iu's per day, then obviously check your Vitamin D level, and adjust dosage if needed. Best of luck to ya.

 

[WB134]

I would test your free estradiol, as well as total next time. With your SHBG being on the lower end, you are not only going to have a lot of unbound free testosterone (which is good), but you are going to have a lot of unbound free estradiol (which can cause problems). Guys with a low SHBG might feel symptoms of high estradiol even when their total estradiol is only slightly above the normal range. Compared to men with high SHBG, which can have higher total estradiol levels and not feel the symptoms as much because a lot of the estradiol is bound and not active. Also, the RDA for Vitamin D is a joke, it's like 600iu. You should be taking minimum 6,000iu's per day, then obviously check your Vitamin D level, and adjust dosage if needed. Best of luck to ya.

What effect does vitamin D have on trt?

 

[CoastWatcher]

What effect does vitamin D have on trt?

Depending on the situation, Vitamin D can actually raise testosterone levels. Test your levels, a multi may not put you where you want to be.

Clin Endocrinol (Oxf), Dec 29 2009, "Association of vitamin D status with serum androgen levels in men"
Horm Metab Res, 2011 Mar, 43(3):223-5, Epub 2010 Dec 10, "Effect of vitamin D supplementation on testosterone levels in men"

 

[lowe2sucks]

your t dose may be not enough.. you know if you have problems and your t is 500s i would say it maybe not your "optimal levels" while some do feel better in mid range then high end there are men who need higher end to feel optimal
it maybe you felt good because you had exogenous test and your ouwn production going still so when your production went to zero you stuck with only exogenous T and that maybe is not enough for you to be optimal

 

[WB134]

your t dose may be not enough.. you know if you have problems and your t is 500s i would say it maybe not your "optimal levels" while some do feel better in mid range then high end there are men who need higher end to feel optimal
it maybe you felt good because you had exogenous test and your ouwn production going still so when your production went to zero you stuck with only exogenous T and that maybe is not enough for you to be optimal

That does make sense. I talked with the nurse today and she said doc will not prescribe hcg. She suggested I go to a urologist

 

[lowe2sucks]

raising t dose is another option.. basically updating your protocol to 2017 year TRT.. upper end zone and 2x a week injections to make sure levels don't drop significally in the end of the week
when did you do bloodwork? on the day of shot before the shot or day after the shot?

 

[WB134]

raising t dose is another option.. basically updating your protocol to 2017 year TRT.. upper end zone and 2x a week injections to make sure levels don't drop significally in the end of the week
when did you do bloodwork? on the day of shot before the shot or day after the shot?

Blood was drawn in the morning and I do my injections in the afternoon so I would have been at my lowest when the blood was drawn