My Everlasting Battle With E2

[Maximos]

Hello everyone!

I've been reading this forum for about 3 years, since I got on TRT.

Short version of my story:

I've been an athlete most of my life and I was competing on a semi-professional level since I was 23. I used steroids and pushed myself in training multiple times but I was always careful not to overdo it. At the age of 26 (I'm 32 now) I had bloodwork done and my TT was 600.

The year after I was working 18 hours a day and I wasn't eating well plus I had a ton of stress and that led to a really (really) bad case of tonsillitis.

After that, even if though I fixed my diet, sleep and work schedule my TT was 350-400 everytime I checked for almost 2 years so I decided to start doing TRT.

I live abroad and doctors in my country are pretty much clueless. I had to explain to my doctor all about the dosages and how arimidex works e.tc. Actually, most of the time I was just printing posts and articles from excele male and allthingsmale and showing them to him.

My protocol is 120 mg p/w split into divided doses. I don't use HCG and lately I started supplementing with DHEAS and Pregnenolone. That combo actually gave me great energy and mental focus but I was also low on DHEA and progesterone.

My problem, like many other guys around here is estrogen. First of all, there is no sensitive test in my country. On the non sensitive test I've scored from 40-71 (ref. 20-71).

I've crashed my E2 5 times in the last 2 years while trying to find a proper AI dose. I've taken 0.5mg at the times of injections and crashed. I've taken 0.25mg 3 times per week and crashed. I started taking 0.25mg at the time of injections and I was feeling ok for about 3 weeks and then I crashed again. I actually crashed like 4 hours after I took the 0.25 dose!

I want to follow a different route and control my estrogen with supplements or dosage manipulation. I also take:
Vit D
Vit b6
Vit B5
Vitc C

I am planning on waiting for my estrogen to stabillize and then act accordingly. I skipped my last arimidex dose and my nipples are kinda burning retain water but that always happens when my hormones flunctuate. I never had any gyno or sensitivity.

Now the question is, how long should I wait before my next bloodwork and what steps should I take if my E2 is high? I've already bought some DIM and calcium D but I won't use anything before my bloodwork.

Also thank you all guys, this community has helped me more than any doctor

 

[Vince Carter]

DHEA has a bad rep for conversion to E, if you think E is your problem then I would eliminate DHEA and the AI entirely while sticking to your program and reevaluate in 4-6 weeks. DHEA is over rated as a must have in a TRT regimen and a lot of guys it's over prescribed and over dosed and they don't tolerate it well at all.

 

[Vince]

Because of your young age, I wonder what would happen if you did not treat your estradiol levels. I would try eliminating permanently the AI and see how you feel. Since you can't get the proper estradiol test, you should just probably treat the symptoms not the numbers.

 

[Maximos]

DHEA has a bad rep for conversion to E, if you think E is your problem then I would eliminate DHEA and the AI entirely while sticking to your program and reevaluate in 4-6 weeks. DHEA is over rated as a must have in a TRT regimen and a lot of guys it's over prescribed and over dosed and they don't tolerate it well at all.

Hey Vince, thanks for the quick reply!

I was at the bottom range and that's why I took DHEAS. I can stop taking it, but to be honest I haven't noticed any changes in my E2. I keep crashing anyways. But to be safe, maybe I'll just stick with preg. and stop DHEA for a while

 

[Maximos]

Because of your young age, I wonder what would happen if you did not treat your estradiol levels. I would try eliminating permanently the AI and see how you feel. Since you can't get the proper estradiol test, you should just probably treat the symptoms not the numbers.

Hey Vince,
"Because of your young age, I wonder what would happen if you did not treat your estradiol levels."

Can you elaborate a little bit on that please?

 

[Vince Carter]

He's saying stop taking the AI you may not even need it to begin with.

 

[lowtdunce]

I've been in a similar boat and recently I think I've stumbled onto something that may not be all that scientific but could end up working for me.... I've done the weekly dose thing, small dose 2x a week.. day following injection, frequent testing to keep a certain number ect and I usually end up crashing and having to wait a couple weeks to feel right again. Well I've decided to try it the other way around. Over the past month I let my sensitive E2 get above 30 but I noticed if its there too long, erections go bye bye. So I pop .5mg of AI and the next day I'm back in business. I've repeated this twice... just waiting for erections to suffer for 3-4 days in a row and then take a small dose of AI. .5mg does it for me and I'm good for 9-10 days before I notice anything. Have done this twice now so I'm still in a testing phase but I hope this works because I'm sick of pulling labs so often. This may end up failing me too if erections stop being an accurate gauge but I've never felt better in 7 months on TRT. If taking a bit of AI every 10 days instead of 7 works, I'm cool with that. Also another thing, I feel the absolute best when my E2 is falling (but obviously not when its crashed). The few days after a small dose is when I feel the best and it starts usually within a few hours. But if I were to do another .25 or .5 a few days after I'd crash for sure. Its a sensitive MFer! I need that 9-10 days to let it climb back up and then start over on the way down again. I wonder if there is a similar rhythm that natural levels follow? I can live with a couple sub par days (but not terrible by any stretch) when E2 is high and enjoy the days when its dropping.

 

[Vince Carter]

Curious how it works that you take .5mg and then feel good for a number of days afterward when the half-life of Arimidex is only 50hrs

 

[lowtdunce]

it takes longer for it to rise than to lower. after AI, mine recovers at about .75 points per day. your mileage may vary. So it gets knocked down quick and then takes awhile to rebound.

Curious how it works that you take .5mg and then feel good for a number of days afterward when the half-life of Arimidex is only 50hrs

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Most guys obsessed about estradiol make a bunch of common mistakes:

1- They do not use the right (sensitive) estradiol test

2- They have high T and they wonder why their E2 is high. Duh

3- They assume their water retention is due to estradiol, so they start treatment with anastrozole blindly.

4- They assume that their nipple sensitivity is due to high estradiol, so they start treatment with anastrozole blindly.

5- They assume that their mood swings are due to high estradiol, so they start treatment with anastrozole blindly.


Please watch my lecture and learn that estradiol is important. Even if you have gyno, treating estradiol without looking at IGF-1 and DHT is useless in most cases.

 

[madman]

Most guys obsessed about estradiol make a bunch of common mistakes:

1- They do not use the right (sensitive) estradiol test

2- They have high T and they wonder why their E2 is high. Duh

3- They assume their water retention is due to estradiol, so they start treatment with anastrozole blindly.

4- They assume that their nipple sensitivity is due to high estradiol, so they start treatment with anastrozole blindly.

5- They assume that their mood swings are due to high estradiol, so they start treatment with anastrozole blindly.


Please watch my lecture and learn that estradiol is important. Even if you have gyno, treating estradiol without looking at IGF-1 and DHT is useless in most cases.

Great post Nelson, number 2 was the best!

 

[Maximos]

Most guys obsessed about estradiol make a bunch of common mistakes:

1- They do not use the right (sensitive) estradiol test

2- They have high T and they wonder why their E2 is high. Duh

3- They assume their water retention is due to estradiol, so they start treatment with anastrozole blindly.

4- They assume that their nipple sensitivity is due to high estradiol, so they start treatment with anastrozole blindly.

5- They assume that their mood swings are due to high estradiol, so they start treatment with anastrozole blindly.


Please watch my lecture and learn that estradiol is important. Even if you have gyno, treating estradiol without looking at IGF-1 and DHT is useless in most cases.



Hello Nelson. Actually, this is the lecture I watched and then decided to drop the A.I. How long do you think I should wait for my E2 to stabillize before retesting?

 

[Maximos]

Curious how it works that you take .5mg and then feel good for a number of days afterward when the half-life of Arimidex is only 50hrs

I've had that too actually. I would take .5 mg and feel good for about a week.

 

[Vince]

I watched and then decided to drop the A.I. How long do you think I should wait for my E2 to stabillize before retesting?

If you can't get the right estradiol test, maybe you should see how you feel without the AI. Try not to treat the numbers, treat how you feel.

 

[Maximos]

If you can't get the right estradiol test, maybe you should see how you feel without the AI. Try not to treat the numbers, treat how you feel.

I havent taken any A.I. since last Thursday so its been almost 5 days. I am feeling kinda better libido-wise but I also took some tyrosine so I don't know if that played a part in anything. Energy levels are fine, my nipples are kinda puffy but I think its better than yesterday. I really hope I won't need to take any A.I. ever again. I can live with a bit more estrogen but low E2 sucks big time

 

[lowe2sucks]

dont jump on AI train if you have puffy nipples I had them more often with low e2 and crashed e2 then with normal e2 level.. hopefully you will not crash your e2 again because estrogen deprivation might have some really brutal long lasting side effects and many doctors who prescribe AIs for men on TRT don't know about them

 

[Weasel]

dont jump on AI train if you have puffy nipples I had them more often with low e2 and crashed e2 then with normal e2 level.. hopefully you will not crash your e2 again because estrogen deprivation might have some really brutal long lasting side effects and many doctors who prescribe AIs for men on TRT don't know about them

I was going to say almost the exact same thing. It took me some time to determine that my symptoms were in fact from low e2 and not high. Symptoms for me are nearly Identical with 1 exception.

Low e2 symptoms were however much more severe than high. Like I wanted to jump off a bridge anxiety. I never got that from high e2.

I'll probably never touch an AI again in my life after that experience.

 

[Maximos]

dont jump on AI train if you have puffy nipples I had them more often with low e2 and crashed e2 then with normal e2 level.. hopefully you will not crash your e2 again because estrogen deprivation might have some really brutal long lasting side effects and many doctors who prescribe AIs for men on TRT don't know about them

Hey mate thanks for the info. I've read your posts about low E2 etc. I havent taken any arimidex since last Thursday so it's been a week. My energy levels were good the whole week except today that I feel kinda sleepy but maybe thats just coincidental. One think I noticed is that my erections are harder than they've been in years. I haven't done any bloodwork yet, I'm gonna wait for a month.

 

[Maximos]

I'll probably never touch an AI again in my life after that experience.

I can relate.