My daily Testosterone Propionate diary

[Vince Carter]

In this thread I'll post some specifics about the Propionate, subjective reports of how I feel, and in 4 weeks, some labs.

I am moving from:

Daily Cyp @ 28mg/.14mL, to Daily Prop @ 25mg/.5mL (I backed down just a bit because my last TT on Cyp was 1397 24-26hrs post inj)

One quibble I have is that in Missouri all I can get from Defy for Testosterone now is from Hallandale and Hallandale only makes Prop in a 50mg/mL strength vial, meaning I have to shoot .5mL every day so I'm not entirely thrilled with that much fluid/weak vial strength. Ive pondered if this is due to some reports that Propionate can be painful and its diluted this much to lessen that but I don't know for sure.

AI use will remain constant @ .25mg EOD
HCG will remain constant @ 250iu E3.5D

The Propionate I received is as I said only 50mg/mL, this is sesame oil (new for me) and has a yellowish tint in a clear vial, using 29g 1/2" u100 syringes.

 

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

Why did you make the switch from cyp to prop? I hear of a lot of guys who want to do this, but I've never really understood the reasoning. In any case, I'm curious to see if you experience any improvements.

 

[johndoesmith]

Why did you make the switch from cyp to prop? I hear of a lot of guys who want to do this, but I've never really understood the reasoning. In any case, I'm curious to see if you experience any improvements.

There isn't any. I think it's boredom. People get bored with the same routine and they think that by making changes it'll change how they feel.

There's no other rational explanation.

 

[Vince]

Why did you make the switch from cyp to prop? I hear of a lot of guys who want to do this, but I've never really understood the reasoning. In any case, I'm curious to see if you experience any improvements.

With the shorter half-life of Propionate, it may mimic your natural cycle of testosterone better? Hopefully keep your estradiol in check and may help low shbg guys?

 

[Vince Carter]

The shorter ester makes more sense for low SHBG guys on daily's. There's little reason to be on a ~6 day ester like Cypionate if you're shooting daily.

 

[Vince Carter]

There isn't any. I think it's boredom. People get bored with the same routine and they think that by making changes it'll change how they feel.

There's no other rational explanation.

And then there's Johnny being a poopy pants for no other rational explanation.

 

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

The shorter ester makes more sense for low SHBG guys on daily's. There's little reason to be on a ~6 day ester like Cypionate if you're shooting daily.

Why is that? Won't you technically experience more ups and downs on a short ester? A daily injection of cypionate results in a virtual flatline. Isn't that a good thing?

 

[CoastWatcher]

Why is that? Won't you technically experience more ups and downs on a short ester? A daily injection of cypionate results in a virtual flatline. Isn't that a good thing?

I believe my good friend, Vince Carter, is working to see if by coming closer to something resembling the diurnal pattern of endogenous testosterone secretion, he'll tweak his estradiol challenges and lower SHBG values.

As as a daily enanthate injector, I've been at steady-state for two years. Not interested in changing protocols, but very interested in seeing this unfold.

 

[Vince Carter]

Why is that? Won't you technically experience more ups and downs on a short ester? A daily injection of cypionate results in a virtual flatline. Isn't that a good thing?

We have a couple of Prop threads and here in my little diary I'm trying to avoid the why's and wherefores that have been covered elsewhere.

 

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

We have a couple of Prop threads and here in my little diary I'm trying to avoid the why's and wherefores that have been covered elsewhere.

I've researched it quite a bit, I haven't found any convincing why's. The only demonstrable advantage I've seen is that because of its shorter half-life it's more useful for steroid users who want to get it out of their system quickly, and that it has higher bioavailability due to its shorter ester. Nonetheless, I'm curious to see what you report subjectively.

 

[Smetry]

I'm Also Using Cyp for 8 months now including 2 months with Defy and Literally felt nothing so Finally Dr. Calkins puts me on Prop. but i'm still waiting for the shipping tomorrow also he said another Patient with almost same situation felt nothing on Cyp and all his lab tests is good as mine and he start feeling big difference on Prop. So hopefully will do the same

 

[madman]

I've researched it quite a bit, I haven't found any convincing why's. The only demonstrable advantage I've seen is that because of its shorter half-life it's more useful for steroid users who want to get it out of their system quickly, and that it has higher bioavailability due to its shorter ester. Nonetheless, I'm curious to see what you report subjectively.

Due to the short ester of prop regardless of daily injection it will hit your system quicker which provides a jolt to the system quicker and some feel generally better on prop especially injecting ed/eod. The higher potency of prop mg for mg compared to the long esters makes no difference unless one is injecting large volumes.

 

[johndoesmith]

Due to the short ester of prop regardless of daily injection it will hit your system quicker which provides a jolt to the system quicker and some feel generally better on prop especially injecting ed/eod. The higher potency of prop mg for mg compared to the long esters makes no difference unless one is injecting large volumes.

Right, but that "jolt" will only provide an effect in the beginning. Once steady state is achieved there's no jolt, just constant levels, with cypionate that is.

 

[Pacman]

There isn't any. I think it's boredom. People get bored with the same routine and they think that by making changes it'll change how they feel.

There's no other rational explanation.

Or maybe you are just unaware of any other rational explanation? For example, prop does raise DHT levels higher than cypionate, giving you a better "bang for your buck" from that aspect...

 

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

Or maybe you are just unaware of any other rational explanation? For example, prop does raise DHT levels higher than cypionate, giving you a better "bang for your buck" from that aspect...

Can you source this? I've tried to research this on more than one occasion and never come up with any information.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

Can you source this? I've tried to research this on more than one occasion and never come up with any information.

There are internet and anecdotal reports of this, but nothing in the scientific literature as far as I'm aware. The undisputed champ at raising DHT (if that is the endpoint of choice) is transdermal (especially directly to scrotum).

 

[Vince Carter]

DHT will part of my 4 week labs but I'm using a cream to the nuts as well but I know my w/o cream baseline and where I am with the cream applied so if there's any differences we might know it was the Prop

 

[You Gonna Learn Today]

This is a very interesting thread, VC. I just switched to Prop myself and I'm also experimenting with things. The first two weeks I tried 25mg of TProp ED only. I stopped taking my AI and also my HCG so that I could see how things felt. I know I still had some of the Cyp ester in me, so the first week was a bit odd and felt my estradiol levels elevated. I don't know for sure if they were, but just going based on feeling and symptoms. During that week, I decided to take an AI EOD at .25mg of Anastrozole. That helped that out.

During the second week, I started feeling more energy throughout the day and less estradiol elevated symptoms. That week I only had to take my Anastrozole once the entire week (early on in the week).

I'm in my third week now and I guess I got too anxious. Considering it was a shorter ester, I decided to modify my protocol to 20mg ED instead of the 25mg ED. Now, I know I should have just kept going with 25mg ED for another 2-3 weeks to let everything settle out, but I'm actually feeling much, much better now. My libido is up tremendously, my night wood is through the roof for 4 days straight (no punn intended), and I'm feeling more energy throughout the day and not feeling tired in the evenings as much like I used to before on Cyp. I also haven't had a need to take my AI either.

Sorry, VC, not trying to jack your thread but it would be interesting to see how you fare with your switch. Just wanted to share my experiences so far and I am VERY pleased with the switch.

Oh, one more thing, there is no pain or discomfort with the injections as others have mentioned before. It's actually a little easier, in my opinion, since it's not as oily as Cyp and not as thick to push through.

 

[lowe2sucks]

what signs you use to decide if you need to take an AI?

 

[Vince Carter]

We continued my AI at .25mg EOD because I've got a long history of over converting and...I'm having some problems with this switch @ 10 days in to it. Im reaching out to Jill @ Defy for advice before I post details about it but its the kind of problem if doesn't get fixed, right away, I'm going to abandon Propionate. Too coincidental the timing here with the switch to Prop and this new very bothersome problem.