MWF pinning but feel unstable Sunday/Monday

[tropicaldaze1950]

Found a short thread from 2019 about E2 and BP. Every man that posted said that when they dropped anastrozole and let their E2 find its own level, their blood pressure came down. I was searching because I'm dealing with seriously high BP which medications worsen. So damn odd. As I posted, reduced my T dose from 100 mg IM, every 5 days to 25 mg, MWF. Only been three weeks since the change.

I was going to add an ai, but after reading that thread, having second thoughts. For BP, my PCP prescribed lisinopril. My psychiatrist has prescribed propranolol. Previously tried prazosin and doxazosin. Significant unavoidable stress in my life. To use an ai or not to use an ai is still a question that I wrestle with.

Keep working on it. For some of us, TRT is not straightforward. Lot of twists, turns and U turns until we and our doctor find the right balance.

 

[George9]

Fair enough. If you would have read OPs posts you would see that he is most likely a super responder and barely can tolerate any testosterone. This forum is also to help people understand the potential health risks that come with taking testosterone. Most people never need 200mg/week dose and do just fine in therapeutical dose range 100-200mg, some even sub 100mg/week so when posting it pays to mention that you are an outlier. Blood donations is another topic on its own and they should be avoided as much as possible as well. I'm glad you are doing fine now, but it's better to be safe then sorry long-term, if you know what I mean. All the best.

My wife has donated 18 gallons of blood. She is 73 years old, plays tennis four times a week, and is one of the healthiest people I know. I have donated almost 10 gallons. Donating blood generally improves the health of men and postmenopausal women, and helps people that need blood or blood products.

 

[Belekas]

My wife has donated 18 gallons of blood. She is 73 years old, plays tennis four times a week, and is one of the healthiest people I know. I have donated almost 10 gallons. Donating blood generally improves the health of men and postmenopausal women, and helps people that need blood or blood products.

Congratulations to you and her. I think theres a difference if you are donating for overal health benefits vs donating frequently to keep your hct/hgb down while running too high of a testosterone dose. But i'm always happy to learn with an open mind. Why don't you create a new thread and educate us on this topic. I'm sure there would be plenty of interest and participation. All the best.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Well things are really turning pear shaped. At the start I felt great after an injection, but now I can literally feel my blood pressure rise and anxiety wash over me. Terrible sleep last few nights borderline insomnia. Melatonin couldn't touch it. Will probably try a benzo tonight. Look like I've been to a tanning bed, Anxiety grows more by the Day, irritable, blood pressure has risen to 142/80. My Central nervous system feels shot. This is showing all the signs of my first failed attempt with daily TRT. Got bloods this morning so fingers crossed it's something fixable. The more I read online the more I feel this may be estrogen related, but most of the info I see says don't touch estrogen...

An update to my post on your thread. My elevated/high BP, which I believe is driven by unrelenting stress related to my wife's worsening dementia, long term poor sleep and untreatable bipolar illness, is proving unresponsive to medications. Prazosin, doxazosin, lisinopril, propranolol. The only drug that might work is a calcium channel blocker. I've reduced my testosterone to 25 mg, MWF and I understand that any change could take many weeks. But I have to question if testosterone, itself, is the cause of my chronically elevated BP. The only way for me to know, which my urologist agrees with, is to stop it for two months.

In the past, when I've stopped, simply because I wasn't experiencing any improvements, I ended up feeling more depressed and fatigued. Between a rock and a hard place.

 

[JayD]

Thanks to everyone that has commented so far, I really appreciate the help and guidance keep it coming.

Well last week was the week from Hell but I feel like I'm coming out the other side.

Even though my weekly protocol went from MWF 54mg total to 75mg total, strangely my T has gone down. Maybe this has something to do with the big spinout my body had last week? I don't understand this as i have been super strict with my injections. also my Estrogen has gone up alot? This is all so confusing.

Please note my Bloods are from a New Zealand lab, so may look different from other countries.

Prolactin slightly down...

Prolactin:660 mU/L ( 65-400 ) H Previous 735(Cabergoline use)

Oestradiol:134 pmol/L Male <190 pmol/L Previous 66

Free Testosterone:455 pmol/L ( 220-680 ) Previous 448

Testosterone:16 nmol/L ( 8.6-29 ) Previous 17

Sex hormone binding globulin:18 nmol/L ( 13-49 ) Previous 20

C Reactive Protein:<0.6 mg/L ( < 5 )

Bilirubin:8 umol/l ( 2-24 )

Alk Phosphatase:58 U/L ( 40-110 )

GGT:23 U/l ( 10-50 )

ALT:31 U/l ( 0-45 )

AST:23 U/l ( 10-45 )

Total Protein:70 g/L ( 65-80 )

Albumin:42 g/L ( 32-48 )

TSH:2.02 mU/L ( 0.27-4.2 )

Free Thyroxine:14.1 pmol/l ( 12.0-22.0 )

Free T3:5.0 pmol/l ( 3.1-6.8 )

RBC:5.3 x10'12/L ( 4.0-5.8 )

Haemoglobin:158 g/L ( 125-170 )

PCV:0.46 L/L ( 0.40-0.54 )

MCV:87 fL ( 80-100 )

MCH:30 pg ( 27-32 )

Red Cell Width:12.6 % ( 11.5-14.5 )

Platelet Count:294 x10'9/L ( 150-400 )

WBC:4.9 x10'9/L ( 4.0-10.0 )

Neutrophil:2.7 x10'9/L ( 2.0-7.5 )

Lymphocyte:1.7 x10'9/L ( 1.2-3.5 )

Monocyte:0.4 x10'9/L ( 0.3-1.0 )

Eosinophil:0.1 x10'9/L ( 0.05-0.4 )

Basophil:0.0 x10'9/L ( 0.0-0.10 )

ImmGranulocyte:0.0 x10'9/L ( 0.0-0.25 )

Blood Film:Blood film not examined

 

[apsjiml]

Hi Guys hope you all had a nice Xmas and New Years

I have been injecting 25mg of Test cyp MWF(75mg). The first week I thought I had won the lottery. Sex drive was great(still is)transient feelings of euphoria and a strong sense of virility. I have gained 8 pounds of weight. And a good strength gain from just 1 home gym session per week. Was very impressed with the speed this happened, my body just seemed to swell up overnight.

At around 4 weeks in things started to fade. Occasionally during the week I am awoken with itchy heavy feet that felt somewhat pressurised, an elevated heartbeat, and upon inspection in the mirror, bloodshot eyes. Upon waking again in the morning the whites of my eyes are clear again.

Sundays and Mondays is when I feel a noticable shift in things. Bouts of mood imbalance, fatigue, achiness, slight anxiety and poor sleep. Things tend to come right by Tuesday again.

Overall positives from TRT so far are decent sex drive(before TRT my interest spiked maybe once per week). Infact I think if it were any higher it may bother me and especially the wife ha. Improved digestion, anxiety overall has lessoned. And energy levels for the mist part are better. I also feel more open to opening up to the wife

Does all this sound like a somewhat normal TRT start up right of passage, that one must adhere to for a few months? Or based on my testimony, is a tweak to this protocol necessary?

With My limited knowledge my thoughts were to possibly look at daily shots to combat the slump.

Thanks JayD 45

#Will be getting bloods this week then post once results are in

If it were me i would want to know what my shbg was is it super low or high ? Pinning more often keeps testosterone more even this more important for people that have low shbg because it does not stay in their system

 

[apsjiml]

Thanks to everyone that has commented so far, I really appreciate the help and guidance keep it coming.

Well last week was the week from Hell but I feel like I'm coming out the other side.

Even though my weekly protocol went from MWF 54mg total to 75mg total, strangely my T has gone down. Maybe this has something to do with the big spinout my body had last week? I don't understand this as i have been super strict with my injections. also my Estrogen has gone up alot? This is all so confusing.

Please note my Bloods are from a New Zealand lab, so may look different from other countries.

Prolactin slightly down...

Prolactin:660 mU/L ( 65-400 ) H Previous 735(Cabergoline use)

Oestradiol:134 pmol/L Male <190 pmol/L Previous 66

Free Testosterone:455 pmol/L ( 220-680 ) Previous 448

Testosterone:16 nmol/L ( 8.6-29 ) Previous 17

Sex hormone binding globulin:18 nmol/L ( 13-49 ) Previous 20

C Reactive Protein:<0.6 mg/L ( < 5 )

Bilirubin:8 umol/l ( 2-24 )

Alk Phosphatase:58 U/L ( 40-110 )

GGT:23 U/l ( 10-50 )

ALT:31 U/l ( 0-45 )

AST:23 U/l ( 10-45 )

Total Protein:70 g/L ( 65-80 )

Albumin:42 g/L ( 32-48 )

TSH:2.02 mU/L ( 0.27-4.2 )

Free Thyroxine:14.1 pmol/l ( 12.0-22.0 )

Free T3:5.0 pmol/l ( 3.1-6.8 )

RBC:5.3 x10'12/L ( 4.0-5.8 )

Haemoglobin:158 g/L ( 125-170 )

PCV:0.46 L/L ( 0.40-0.54 )

MCV:87 fL ( 80-100 )

MCH:30 pg ( 27-32 )

Red Cell Width:12.6 % ( 11.5-14.5 )

Platelet Count:294 x10'9/L ( 150-400 )

WBC:4.9 x10'9/L ( 4.0-10.0 )

Neutrophil:2.7 x10'9/L ( 2.0-7.5 )

Lymphocyte:1.7 x10'9/L ( 1.2-3.5 )

Monocyte:0.4 x10'9/L ( 0.3-1.0 )

Eosinophil:0.1 x10'9/L ( 0.05-0.4 )

Basophil:0.0 x10'9/L ( 0.0-0.10 )

ImmGranulocyte:0.0 x10'9/L ( 0.0-0.25 )

Blood Film:Blood film not examined

Ok with a shbg like that , that is ideal for daily injections . Lower shbg means the t is not staying in your system low a tsh of 2 is elevated to me means your thyroid is low if it were me i would get both antibodies tested as well as reverse t3 , free t3 should be done with t3 dialysis way more accurate . I would also do a full iron panel

 

[JayD]

Ok with a shbg like that , that is ideal for daily injections . Lower shbg means the t is not staying in your system low a tsh of 2 is elevated to me means your thyroid is low if it were me i would get both antibodies tested as well as reverse t3 , free t3 should be done with t3 dialysis way more accurate . I would also do a full iron panel

I'm definitely going to try dailies after those bloods. Next lot of labs I will see if those tests are available. We are somewhat limited down here. The accurate E2 Test must be sent to America from memory, at a substantial cost

 

[Charliebizz]

I'm definitely going to try dailies after those bloods. Next lot of labs I will see if those tests are available. We are somewhat limited down here. The accurate E2 Test must be sent to America from memory, at a substantial cost

Be careful with the “with that shbg“ stuff. Plenty of men with low to low normal shbg do just fine on 1-2 injections a week. my shbg runs from 12-15 feel no difference from 1-2-3x a week injections. Then eod start to feel worse and feel awful On daily’s.

 

[JayD]

Be careful with the “with that shbg“ stuff. Plenty of men with low to low normal shbg do just fine on 1-2 injections a week. my shbg runs from 12-15 feel no difference from 1-2-3x a week injections. Then eod start to feel worse and feel awful On daily’s.

So what your saying is it's more of throwing a dart at a dart board with a blindfold on, and hope you hit the bullseye? Im thinking I should stay on this protocol for another month just to give it a fighting chance as only been 6 weeks. This has been a roller coaster for me but hasn't been all bad, a mixed bag really. Maybe my T will continue to rise? And estrogen lower? Once body adjusts? I just don't know what to do.

 

[Charliebizz]

So what your saying is it's more of throwing a dart at a dart board with a blindfold on, and hope you hit the bullseye? Im thinking I should stay on this protocol for another month just to give it a fighting chance as only been 6 weeks. This has been a roller coaster for me but hasn't been all bad, a mixed bag really. Maybe my T will continue to rise? And estrogen lower? Once body adjusts? I just don't know what to do.

I’m probably one of the most impatient people on the forums. I’ve admitted changed protocol’s way too fast. And been chasing my tail for years. But I will tell you some of the changes from trt took months on end for me to even notice. One was this phantom hypoglycemia issues I was having. Everything in my labs is fantastic in that regard yet I was having bouts of what felt like hypoglycemia even using a glucose monitor things were fine. i used to have to eat every two hours or I would be a mess. Then I’d say around 6 months into trt I noticed I could skip meals again and eat when ever I wanted. So some things do take time. i Personally feel like daily injections are overkill. And most people that switch to them usually switch dose and other things while doing it. And attribute the “feeling better “ to the daily’s.

 

[Belekas]

I’m probably one of the most impatient people on the forums. I’ve admitted changed protocol’s way too fast. And been chasing my tail for years. But I will tell you some of the changes from trt took months on end for me to even notice. One was this phantom hypoglycemia issues I was having. Everything in my labs is fantastic in that regard yet I was having bouts of what felt like hypoglycemia even using a glucose monitor things were fine. i used to have to eat every two hours or I would be a mess. Then I’d say around 6 months into trt I noticed I could skip meals again and eat when ever I wanted. So some things do take time. i Personally feel like daily injections are overkill. And most people that switch to them usually switch dose and other things while doing it. And attribute the “feeling better “ to the daily’s.

Yeah I second that. Its a slow process and a lot slower then most people want it to be. I'm high SHBG and jab 2x per week. Will experiment and later maybe will try one weekly injection to see whats up. You can never know what will work best for you so IMO its best to keep your own lane and do your own experiment FWIW. If it won't work I will just come off, and live as healthy as I can naturally. No stress.

Funny you meantioned phantom hypoglycemia. I recently had something similar and would wake up in the morning with BG reading at 3 lol so had to eat big meals every 2hrs as well and 6-7 meals per day to get back into the normal range.

 

[JayD]

Is my level of estrogen high considering my test levels etc?

The reason I ask is I have begun having some sexual issues in the last week. Going soft after a good start, then not being able to finish.

Blood pressure also raised

 

[Charliebizz]

Yeah I second that. Its a slow process and a lot slower then most people want it to be. I'm high SHBG and jab 2x per week. Will experiment and later maybe will try one weekly injection to see whats up. You can never know what will work best for you so IMO its best to keep your own lane and do your own experiment FWIW. If it won't work I will just come off, and live as healthy as I can naturally. No stress.

Funny you meantioned phantom hypoglycemia. I recently had something similar and would wake up in the morning with BG reading at 3 lol so had to eat big meals every 2hrs as well and 6-7 meals per day to get back into the normal range.

Thing is my blood glucose was always fine when it happened. I’d be in the 70-80s

 

[Belekas]

Thing is my blood glucose was always fine when it happened. I’d be in the 70-80s

Strange. Mine was in the 50s upon waking up feeling like shit. Huge meal, measure again in 1.5hr and its back into 50's again.

 

[Belekas]

Is my level of estrogen high considering my test levels etc?

The reason I ask is I have begun having some sexual issues in the last week. Going soft after a good start, then not being able to finish.

Blood pressure also raised

You had Prolactin 660mU/L on the last blood draw? That's well above range. Have you looked into why its so high?

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Be careful with the “with that shbg“ stuff. Plenty of men with low to low normal shbg do just fine on 1-2 injections a week. my shbg runs from 12-15 feel no difference from 1-2-3x a week injections. Then eod start to feel worse and feel awful On daily’s.

Some on here are also on T-Nation, where there's a doctor who prescribes weekly T injections and he cited, with labs, of men with low SHBG, some in single digits IIRC, who are doing well on weekly injections between 140 to 200 mg.

IMO, looking at SHBG in isolation skews the larger clinical picture and potentially can lead to protocol changes that might prove to be counterproductive, i.e. dailies or EOD.

 

[Belekas]

Some on here are also on T-Nation, where there's a doctor who prescribes weekly T injections and he cited, with labs, of men with low SHBG, some in single digits IIRC, who are doing well on weekly injections between 140 to 200 mg.

IMO, looking at SHBG in isolation skews the larger clinical picture and potentially can lead to protocol changes that might prove to be counterproductive, i.e. dailies or EOD.

Exactly. Also I'm starting to get the feeling after reading and researching over the years that 1 weekly injection potentially might be the best thing. Natural testosterone fluctuates a lot and depends on everything we do and how we get on with our days including the outside stress which is unavoidable. I mean it be cool that we all could maintain steady levels and feel like gods pinning million times per week but that's not how it happens pretty much for a lot of men IME. It's not that easy and def worth exploring the less frequent injection route.

 

[Charliebizz]

Some on here are also on T-Nation, where there's a doctor who prescribes weekly T injections and he cited, with labs, of men with low SHBG, some in single digits IIRC, who are doing well on weekly injections between 140 to 200 mg.

IMO, looking at SHBG in isolation skews the larger clinical picture and potentially can lead to protocol changes that might prove to be counterproductive, i.e. dailies or EOD.

I’ve posted back and forth with him a bunch of times. His spread sheet of his men on t is Fantastic. Really opened my eyes especially when I never felt right on more frequent injections myself.

 

[JayD]

You had Prolactin 660mU/L on the last blood draw? That's well above range. Have you looked into why its so high?

Yes taken care of, had an MRI which showed no tumor. Currently taking caber