Low SHBG: T Gel along with Injected T has Helped Somewhat

[ERO]

As many members already know, my 5+ years of TRT benefits on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 the best, have been a 1 at best. (I am not exaggerating) I have genetically low SHBG and its the hand that I have been dealt, so I have been trying anything that I can think of to try to help. The latest experiment has been to add a click of T Gel to my scrotum daily along with a small daily injection of T (mixed at 40% prop and 60% cyp.) After doing that for 4 months or so, my TRT experience is now maybe a 3 on a scale of 1 to 10. Not very exiting on paper but some slight improvement none the less.

Latest labs: Total T 1200.5, Free T >50, E2 Sensitive 37, DHT 235 (scale 30 - 85)

Basically, for the first time in over 5 years have a bit of libido. Not a lot, and not a good level by any means, but compared to zero, it is a nice change.

My next consult with Dr Saya is in early July. I am not sure if there any stones remaining un-turned, but I am thinking of perhaps trying T Gel only for few weeks since the addition of that is the only thing that has made any positive changes so far.

 

[Vince Carter]

thats good news for you! refresh me...had you ever tried 100% Propionate? You're having a great response to that cream, I use two clicks and can get to ~100 on a 16-79 scale. I assumed with Dr Saya it's a 50mg/mL cream? I'm gonna be on 100% Propionate later in Jun and am thinking about doing the cream 12hrs opposite the injection.

 

[CoastWatcher]

I'm so pleased to see this, ERO. I know it is an achievement - particularly given your long history. A good, if cautious, report.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

That is great to hear. I cannot wait to try this. ERO, have you ever had any genetic testing done?

 

[ERO]

thats good news for you! refresh me...had you ever tried 100% Propionate? You're having a great response to that cream, I use two clicks and can get to ~100 on a 16-79 scale. I assumed with Dr Saya it's a 50mg/mL cream? I'm gonna be on 100% Propionate later in Jun and am thinking about doing the cream 12hrs opposite the injection.

I have tried 100% prop, but that was alone - not with using the T Gel at the same time. Just by itself, I could never tell any difference between Prop and Cyp. The T Gel I have is listed as 10%.

 

[ERO]

That is great to hear. I cannot wait to try this. ERO, have you ever had any genetic testing done?

I have the 23 and me DNA test from last year and I have dug around trying to find out more info, but all I have so far is a list of drugs that will not work well for me, (Hyper metabolizer of those particular compounds), that I have a lower functioning MTHFR gene (but not totally dysfunctional), along with things that I already know based upon my family history. I wish there were more docs using DNA testing as part of their diagnosis.

 

[HarryCat]

That is good news. I know exactly what you mean about the difference between a 1 and a 3 considering I've been at a 1 so long myself. Hopefully after my next consult I'll get to try something similar. Hard to keep on the same protocol month after month and not feel anything from it.

 

[lowe2sucks]

glad to hear that you finally get libido benefit from trt

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I am happy you are starting to see benefits. You have helped a lot of people here. I would love for one of you guys with low SHBG not related to insulin resistance to write a summary of the different approaches you are using and how you have dealt with doctors who do not believe that your sub-population exists.

I know there are at least 6 of you on ExcelMale.

Thoughts?

 

[Vince Carter]

There's definitely the best group of guys on EM and my subgroup of us low SHBG guys that have the most experience in modifying the protocol to deal with it and the ideas keep on coming, like Free Estrogen and the use of Propionate over Cypionate. I see the most progressive approach to low SHBG here on EM with this core group of low SHBG guys, and it's never the naysayer doom and gloom that comes from at least one other forum...it's very encouraging sub group of guys.

 

[ERO]

I am happy you are starting to see benefits. You have helped a lot of people here. I would love for one of you guys with low SHBG not related to insulin resistance to write a summary of the different approaches you are using and how you have dealt with doctors who do not believe that your sub-population exists.

I know there are at least 6 of you on ExcelMale.

Thoughts?

Hey Nelson-

I will be happy to write up a summary of everything that I have tried and how I have tried to approach the various doctors that I have consulted. It may be a few days before I have time to complete and post it. That and I wish I had better news to share - I mean, I am happy to finally feel SOMETING, but compared to the benefits that most guys get from TRT I am nowhere near a model of a "good outcome" from treatment. Still keep my fingers crossed, though.

 

[Re-Ride]

Thanks ERO. What was your DHT prior to adding the transdermal?

 

[ScottM]

I would absolutely love to read that.

Also, has anyone with low SHBG on here tried pellet therapy? It isn't my go to, not by a long shot, but it would eliminate a lot of the peak and valley problem as well as introduce a way for the patient to control their dosing gently (increase metabolic rate via cardio for a quick boost, etc). I am assuming the 6 have a normal thyroid panel in addition to not being insulin related?

-Scott
-Telthera

Hey Nelson-

I will be happy to write up a summary of everything that I have tried and how I have tried to approach the various doctors that I have consulted. It may be a few days before I have time to complete and post it. That and I wish I had better news to share - I mean, I am happy to finally feel SOMETING, but compared to the benefits that most guys get from TRT I am nowhere near a model of a "good outcome" from treatment. Still keep my fingers crossed, though.

 

[ERO]

Thanks ERO. What was your DHT prior to adding the transdermal?

It was always in the high 60s and 70s on the 30 to 85 scale but I had no libido. At. All. Now I am feeling a bit, but I have a long way to go - if indeed any further progress can be made.

 

[ERO]

I would absolutely love to read that.

Also, has anyone with low SHBG on here tried pellet therapy? It isn't my go to, not by a long shot, but it would eliminate a lot of the peak and valley problem as well as introduce a way for the patient to control their dosing gently (increase metabolic rate via cardio for a quick boost, etc). I am assuming the 6 have a normal thyroid panel in addition to not being insulin related?

-Scott
-Telthera

Some of us with low SHBG don't really clear T that much faster than normal even though that is always the expectation. I know that in my case I do not, as I was injecting E3.5 days for my first two years and there was never a pronounced difference between peak and valley.

My thyroid has always been fine as well but we have tried small doses of combined T3 & T4 to see if it made any difference and it has not. I think I will quite taking it after my next consult as it is just a waste of money for me.

Pellet therapy has a big problem with the fact that Docs are typically only allowed to inject them every 12 weeks, yet most guys on them drop to a "Low T" level after week 8 (plus or minus - it varies obviously with dosing and with each person being different) and then they are stuck with no recourse until week 12.

 

[ScottM]

Very, very interesting. Thanks for sharing. I look forward to learning more about what you have tried and what has worked for you at all.

 

[Re-Ride]

ERO, Do you feel your experience is relevant for men who have low SHBG for reasons other than it being a natural state? My low SHBG seems to be protocol, health or lifestyle related rather than a natural state. It is now 10.1L ( 11.0 - 78.0 ) on a steady downward trend from 22.7 since 09/8/15 as posted in my thread. It dropped to 17.9 by 12/31/15 while on hGG mono. I've continued with hCG as I added cyp so perhaps that is the cause. Scrotal transdermal has been recommended to me for low DHT as well as progesterone and pregnenolone supplementation. No one has suggested that I switch to propionate from cypionate. Your thread has me considering propionate although for the most part low libido has not been an issue. My lab results deviate considerably from what seems to be the norm on here for example E2 sens 94 and 61 E2 standard from the same sample as well as hematocrit dropping unexpectedly by 5 points in a matter of days.

 

[ScottM]

If you're going to try Prop, you need to be aware of the PIP associated with such a short esther. I would imagine the guys here have some useful tips, I tried it once to see the difference and it was crippling, had to tell people I pulled a muscle at the gym to explain my change in gait.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

If you're going to try Prop, you need to be aware of the PIP associated with such a short esther. I would imagine the guys here have some useful tips, I tried it once to see the difference and it was crippling, had to tell people I pulled a muscle at the gym to explain my change in gait.

Try the Prop from Empower. I've used it every day since early March and have had absolutely zero pain. It's also slightly less viscous than Cypionate.

 

[ScottM]

Thanks Jason, I am quite happy on my current C/E plan, just wanted to try the Prop to see what the PT experience was like. Very happy to hear that prop is working for you and pain free, I hear great things in smaller split dosages.