madman
Super Moderator
When it comes to any protocol (dose T/injection frequency) there is going to be a big difference in the peak--->trough injecting daily vs twice-weekly vs once weekly.
If you are hitting high-end/high FT 20-25 ng/dL at true trough (lowest point) before your next injection on a once weekly protocol. then you would easily be overmedicated as your true peak FT (within 24 hrs) and the days following would be sky-high.
This is week in and week out.
Keep in mind that although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of T responsible for the positive effects.
What is critical here is many men are running trough FT levels much higher then they think due to using/relying on inaccurate testing methods. such as the commonly used known to be inaccurate direct immunoassays (RIA/CLIA).
Those clueless.doctors, run of the mill dime a dozen T-clinics and even some of the reputable ones such as Defy all use/rely on the known to be inaccurate direct IA which tends to underestimate FT.
The only way to know where your FT truly sits is to have it tested using the most accurate assay the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis especially in cases of altered SHBG.
Otherwise the next best testing method would be the go to calculated linear law-of-mass action Vermeulen (cFTV) which will give a good approximation.
Chances are your FT was never tested using an accurate assay and may have very well been much higher than you would think.
You would need to look over your lab results to see what testing method was used.
Where does your SHBG sit and what is your trough TT on your current protocol (dose T/injection frequency)?
That 200-220 mg T/week protocol you were on back in the day was overkill as it is far from common anyone would ever need 200 mg T/week which is a whopping dose of T for most.
Most men on therapy are injecting 100-200 mg T/week whether once weekly or split into more frequent injections.
The majority of men can easily hit a healthy/high trough FT on 100-150 mg T/week especially when split into more frequent injections.
Yes there will always be those outliers who may need the high-end therapeutic dose 200 mg T/week but its far from common as in rare.
Such dose would easily have most men overmedicated on T.
There are also some men on the other end of the spectrum who can achieve a stellar FT injecting <100 mg T/week especially when split into more fr5equent injections.
Again every protocol needs to be given 12 weeks to truly gauge the effectiveness as it will take a few months after blood levels have stabilized (4-6 weeks TC/TE) for the body to adapt to its new SET-POINT and this is the critical time period that needs to be given in order to truly see how you feel overall on said protocol (dose T/injection frequency).
All that should really matter here is the dose one needs to achieve a healthy trough FT which will result in relief/improvement of low-T symptoms and overall well-being.
Yes symptom relief is what truly matters but when it comes to what FT level is needed one needs to keep in mind the overall goal would be to use the least amount in order to feel well while at the same time minimizing sides and keep blood markers healthy long-term.
Always need to be mindful of your trough FT/injection frequency.
Even then when it comes to symptom relief many lack the understanding how exogenous T works as T is a threshold hormone!
The majority of men would never even need to go beyond the top-end at trough as in where a healthy young natty male in the 95-97.5th percentile would sit 25 ng/dL and this is a natty young healthy males Daily PEAK we are talking about here.
Most are caught up on that more T is better mentality and think pushing your trough FT very high is needed to experience relief/improvemnent of low-T symptoms.
Big myth being pushed by all this numbskulls polluting this kiddie forums stinking up the net.
Needs to be put to rest.
My reply from this thread (posted below).
Key points here:
* T is a threshold hormone
* Crossing the threshold turns the lights on but cranking the dimmer switch past that doesn't make them shine brighter. It's a ceiling effect, not a linear dose-response.
* The majority of symptoms will be improved once you achieve a healthy FT which for most would be aiming for a healthy/high-end trough 15-25 ng/dL.
* Some will choose to run higher levels but the main benefit you are going to get here when driving up your FT sky-high is better gains in muscle/enhanced strength and recovery.
* Every other symptom energy, mood, libido, erectile function let alone overall health (cardiovascular, brain, bone, tendons, immune system, lipids, and body composition) can easily be improved by achieving a healthy FT.
* Even then I would put much more weight behind sleep, diet, exercise, thyroid/adrenals and stress (physical/mental) when it comes to energy, mood, libido, erectile function and overall health than supposedly needing a high/absurdly high FT.
Sit and dwell on that!
Think of all those overmedicated men on T-therapy gassed up on FT well beyond their natty genetic set-point and unfortunately many off them off the hop!
You can blame all those run of the mill T clinics, kiddie forums loaded with all those numbskulls, throw those blast n cruisers in there too and put the icing on the cake the cesspool of so called gurus polluting gootube!
Gotta love all those kiddie forums loaded with the brainwashed sheep still pushing that more T is better mentality dishing out piss poor advice!
So much misinformation littered on the net its sickening.
As I have stated numerous times on the forum T is a threshold hormone!
Main point here being start low and go slow titrate the dose if need be until the threshold is crossed (bloodwork + symptoms).
Symptoms improved while at the same time minimizing/avoiding sides, keeping blood markers healthy and maintaining long-term health is key here.
Crossing the threshold turns the lights on but cranking the dimmer switch past that doesn't make them shine brighter. It's a ceiling effect, not a linear dose-response.
Especially when it comes to libido and erectile function.
The majority of symptoms will be improved once you achieve a healthy FT which for most would be aiming for a healthy/high-end trough 15-25 ng/dL.
Yes some will choose to run higher levels but the main benefit you are going to get here when driving up your FT sky-high is better gains in muscle/enhanced strength and recovery.
Plain and simple.
Every other symptom energy, mood, libido, erectile function let alone overall health (cardiovascular, brain, bone, tendons, immune system, lipids, and body composition) can easily be improved by achieving a healthy FT.
Even then I would put much more weight behind sleep, diet, exercise, thyroid/adrenals and stress (physical/mental) when it comes to energy, mood, libido, erectile function and overall health than supposedly needing a high/absurdly high FT.
This is a given!
Give your heads a shake peak--->trough (daily vs twice-weekly vs once weekly).
24/7 steady-state to boot!
Healthy natty males age 18-29 years mFT 2.5-97.5th percentile 6.39-25.3 ng/dL.
It's those natty outliers that fall in the 97.5% that are hitting a FT 25.3 ng/dL and this is a daily short-lived peak to boot!
Better yet look at where the median 11.71 ng/dL sits!
LMFAO!
post #1/7
If you are hitting high-end/high FT 20-25 ng/dL at true trough (lowest point) before your next injection on a once weekly protocol. then you would easily be overmedicated as your true peak FT (within 24 hrs) and the days following would be sky-high.
This is week in and week out.
Keep in mind that although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of T responsible for the positive effects.
What is critical here is many men are running trough FT levels much higher then they think due to using/relying on inaccurate testing methods. such as the commonly used known to be inaccurate direct immunoassays (RIA/CLIA).
Those clueless.doctors, run of the mill dime a dozen T-clinics and even some of the reputable ones such as Defy all use/rely on the known to be inaccurate direct IA which tends to underestimate FT.
The only way to know where your FT truly sits is to have it tested using the most accurate assay the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis especially in cases of altered SHBG.
Otherwise the next best testing method would be the go to calculated linear law-of-mass action Vermeulen (cFTV) which will give a good approximation.
Chances are your FT was never tested using an accurate assay and may have very well been much higher than you would think.
You would need to look over your lab results to see what testing method was used.
Where does your SHBG sit and what is your trough TT on your current protocol (dose T/injection frequency)?
That 200-220 mg T/week protocol you were on back in the day was overkill as it is far from common anyone would ever need 200 mg T/week which is a whopping dose of T for most.
Most men on therapy are injecting 100-200 mg T/week whether once weekly or split into more frequent injections.
The majority of men can easily hit a healthy/high trough FT on 100-150 mg T/week especially when split into more frequent injections.
Yes there will always be those outliers who may need the high-end therapeutic dose 200 mg T/week but its far from common as in rare.
Such dose would easily have most men overmedicated on T.
There are also some men on the other end of the spectrum who can achieve a stellar FT injecting <100 mg T/week especially when split into more fr5equent injections.
Again every protocol needs to be given 12 weeks to truly gauge the effectiveness as it will take a few months after blood levels have stabilized (4-6 weeks TC/TE) for the body to adapt to its new SET-POINT and this is the critical time period that needs to be given in order to truly see how you feel overall on said protocol (dose T/injection frequency).
All that should really matter here is the dose one needs to achieve a healthy trough FT which will result in relief/improvement of low-T symptoms and overall well-being.
Yes symptom relief is what truly matters but when it comes to what FT level is needed one needs to keep in mind the overall goal would be to use the least amount in order to feel well while at the same time minimizing sides and keep blood markers healthy long-term.
Always need to be mindful of your trough FT/injection frequency.
Even then when it comes to symptom relief many lack the understanding how exogenous T works as T is a threshold hormone!
The majority of men would never even need to go beyond the top-end at trough as in where a healthy young natty male in the 95-97.5th percentile would sit 25 ng/dL and this is a natty young healthy males Daily PEAK we are talking about here.
Most are caught up on that more T is better mentality and think pushing your trough FT very high is needed to experience relief/improvemnent of low-T symptoms.
Big myth being pushed by all this numbskulls polluting this kiddie forums stinking up the net.
Needs to be put to rest.
My reply from this thread (posted below).
Key points here:
* T is a threshold hormone
* Crossing the threshold turns the lights on but cranking the dimmer switch past that doesn't make them shine brighter. It's a ceiling effect, not a linear dose-response.
* The majority of symptoms will be improved once you achieve a healthy FT which for most would be aiming for a healthy/high-end trough 15-25 ng/dL.
* Some will choose to run higher levels but the main benefit you are going to get here when driving up your FT sky-high is better gains in muscle/enhanced strength and recovery.
* Every other symptom energy, mood, libido, erectile function let alone overall health (cardiovascular, brain, bone, tendons, immune system, lipids, and body composition) can easily be improved by achieving a healthy FT.
* Even then I would put much more weight behind sleep, diet, exercise, thyroid/adrenals and stress (physical/mental) when it comes to energy, mood, libido, erectile function and overall health than supposedly needing a high/absurdly high FT.
Sit and dwell on that!
Think of all those overmedicated men on T-therapy gassed up on FT well beyond their natty genetic set-point and unfortunately many off them off the hop!
You can blame all those run of the mill T clinics, kiddie forums loaded with all those numbskulls, throw those blast n cruisers in there too and put the icing on the cake the cesspool of so called gurus polluting gootube!
Gotta love all those kiddie forums loaded with the brainwashed sheep still pushing that more T is better mentality dishing out piss poor advice!
So much misinformation littered on the net its sickening.
As I have stated numerous times on the forum T is a threshold hormone!
Main point here being start low and go slow titrate the dose if need be until the threshold is crossed (bloodwork + symptoms).
Symptoms improved while at the same time minimizing/avoiding sides, keeping blood markers healthy and maintaining long-term health is key here.
Crossing the threshold turns the lights on but cranking the dimmer switch past that doesn't make them shine brighter. It's a ceiling effect, not a linear dose-response.
Especially when it comes to libido and erectile function.
The majority of symptoms will be improved once you achieve a healthy FT which for most would be aiming for a healthy/high-end trough 15-25 ng/dL.
Yes some will choose to run higher levels but the main benefit you are going to get here when driving up your FT sky-high is better gains in muscle/enhanced strength and recovery.
Plain and simple.
Every other symptom energy, mood, libido, erectile function let alone overall health (cardiovascular, brain, bone, tendons, immune system, lipids, and body composition) can easily be improved by achieving a healthy FT.
Even then I would put much more weight behind sleep, diet, exercise, thyroid/adrenals and stress (physical/mental) when it comes to energy, mood, libido, erectile function and overall health than supposedly needing a high/absurdly high FT.
This is a given!
Give your heads a shake peak--->trough (daily vs twice-weekly vs once weekly).
24/7 steady-state to boot!
Healthy natty males age 18-29 years mFT 2.5-97.5th percentile 6.39-25.3 ng/dL.
It's those natty outliers that fall in the 97.5% that are hitting a FT 25.3 ng/dL and this is a daily short-lived peak to boot!
Better yet look at where the median 11.71 ng/dL sits!
LMFAO!
post #1/7
