Low dose HCG + low dose Enclomphipene for sperm banking

[Cole9569]

Hi all,

Long time reader, first time poster. I am 27yo, been on replacement for about 2.5 yrs @ 120 mg/wk due to secondary hypo from pituitary damage (resulting from multiple concussions requiring hospitalization). As a natural, I could never produce more than 300ng/dl. Lowest test was 140 and highest was 300 over the course of 22 months, so finally my endo put me on replacement. Obviously, this was a great thing for me and I’m doing way better.

I recently switched to a urologist who advised adding on 1800iu HCG per week, because one day I would still like to father children (although this may be 10 years from now). We did a semenalysis after a few months on this and my semen is actually viable despite complete HPTA shutdown (0 Lh and FSH). I don’t like how hcg makes me feel, so I asked my doc if we could just do this protocol to bank sperm and then go back to plain old trt. He said sure.

My question is would it be wise to toss in 12.5mg enclomiphene 3x a week for the next couple weeks before banking just to ensure optimal sperm? I have this on hand. I really just want to go back to regular trt but it’s important to me that I am able to bank viable samples. I’m leaning towards doing this and just suffering any potential short term sides for the trade off of better sperm.

I also understand many might say that enclo won’t overcome negative feedback or HPTA shutdown, and will thus be useless, but that is not conclusive in my view. Ive talked to many on both sides. I believe some FSH may go a long way in terms of ensuring viability for me and I can’t procure recombinant FSH.

My last semenalysis showed low volume but it was “almost normal” in my doctors words.

I’d feel better about producing the most optimal sperm possible, especially if it may one day become my offspring.

Thanks for the help

Thoughts?

 

[Cataceous]

I'm one of those who say that enclomiphene is ineffective for most men on TRT. Sure it's not conclusive, but I suspect your chances of pushing LH and FSH into range are not good.

AllDayChemist and its sister site ReliableRx seem to carry recombinant FSH, though it's out of stock at the moment. You could investigate if they are likely to get some in within a reasonable time frame.

If you don't mind something outside of the mainstream then you might consider the gonadorelin/enclomiphene combination, which I've documented. The idea is to inject small doses of gonadorelin as frequently as you can tolerate, which mimics natural GnRH pulses. The enclomiphene reduces negative feedback from estradiol at the pituitary, allowing it to produce LH and FSH. Given your relative youth you would probably have even better results than I do. The minimum dose frequency for gonadorelin is uncertain, so it's possible you could see some results with injections a few times a week rather than a few times a day. It also might be more palatable because it's temporary. However, it likely would take some weeks for the pituitary to ramp up production.

 

[Cole9569]

I'm one of those who say that enclomiphene is ineffective for most men on TRT. Sure it's not conclusive, but I suspect your chances of pushing LH and FSH into range are not good.

AllDayChemist and its sister site ReliableRx seem to carry recombinant FSH, though it's out of stock at the moment. You could investigate if they are likely to get some in within a reasonable time frame.

If you don't mind something outside of the mainstream then you might consider the gonadorelin/enclomiphene combination, which I've documented. The idea is to inject small doses of gonadorelin as frequently as you can tolerate, which mimics natural GnRH pulses. The enclomiphene reduces negative feedback from estradiol at the pituitary, allowing it to produce LH and FSH. Given your relative youth you would probably have even better results than I do. The minimum dose frequency for gonadorelin is uncertain, so it's possible you could see some results with injections a few times a week rather than a few times a day. It also might be more palatable because it's temporary. However, it likely would take some weeks for the pituitary to ramp up production.

Thanks for getting back to me. I've considered the gonadorelin/enclomiphene combo, and appreciate you documenting your experience. Would you recommend lowering exogenous T while undergoing this protocol? For instance, to what effect will the addition of this protocol raise my total testosterone levels?

I have a peak TT of around 1,000 @ 120mg test and 1800iu hcg per week. I wonder if I just keep doing everything exactly the same at first - and enclomiphene and gonadorelin, or immediately cut out the hcg and wait to see how testes react to hopefully rising LH and FSH.

I like the idea of awakening the HPTA even if the long term plan is to stay on trt. I did clomid mono therapy before trt, and it worked well, but I didn't want to say on a SERM forever and I feel best overall on trt. It seemed simpler to just replace what I was deficient in. However, even beyond fertility preservation, I've never loved the idea of indefinite HPTA shutdown.

I will probably undergo this protocol if I can source gonadorelin. My doctor also understands that HCG isn't very affordable right now.

 

[Cataceous]

In theory reducing exogenous testosterone would be helpful to the process, reducing negative feedback from estradiol at the pituitary. This would seem to be relevant to you since your testosterone dose is somewhat high. However, enclomiphene is pretty potent, so the reduction may not be essential. When I started I initially maintained my TRT protocol, which included hCG. Over time I tapered and eliminated the hCG.

It's hard to predict what kind of endogenous testosterone production you would see with gonadorelin as opposed to hCG. Do you have a sense of how much you get from hCG? I've always had pretty negligible production with either, though this seems to be uncommon.

As of a couple years ago Hallandale Pharmacy was offering gonadorelin. On the research chemical side, Peptide Sciences has a decent reputation.

 

[Cole9569]

In theory reducing exogenous testosterone would be helpful to the process, reducing negative feedback from estradiol at the pituitary. This would seem to be relevant to you since your testosterone dose is somewhat high. However, enclomiphene is pretty potent, so the reduction may not be essential. When I started I initially maintained my TRT protocol, which included hCG. Over time I tapered and eliminated the hCG.

It's hard to predict what kind of endogenous testosterone production you would see with gonadorelin as opposed to hCG. Do you have a sense of how much you get from hCG? I've always had pretty negligible production with either, though this seems to be uncommon.

As of a couple years ago Hallandale Pharmacy was offering gonadorelin. On the research chemical side, Peptide Sciences has a decent reputation.

I have sourced some gonadorelin from a compounding pharmacy and it's on its way. I doubt my urologist will be on board with this, just because it may seem complicated and foreign, so I'll need to consider how to explain it. He's pretty open minded and generally a smart guy but he may have his own ideas.

hCG does quite a bit for my T levels. I am currently right at 1,050 ng/dl (slightly higher than I'd like to be) mid cycle. When just on 120 mg test cyp weekly, I am around 650 mid cycle. Libido is higher with hCG added (from higher tt) and testes are normal size but that's about the only positive aspect of it for me at least. Estradiol is slightly above reference range too, which is fine but it was never high when on only TRT. I should note My hCG dose is relatively high (1800 iu/wk) and my testes have now been "up and running" for months, which I'm guessing is why it raises my tt so much.

 

[Mhayes009]

Are you using HCG or Pregnyl?

 

[Cole9569]

Are you using HCG or Pregnyl?

Pregynl