Is TRT a life long commitment for those who were not Hypogonadal?

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KenLowT

Active Member
Hi guys,
I've been thinking about those of us who started TRT therapy because of our low, but normal Total T numbers. Many of us showed symptoms of low T, but our numbers sat right at the average of low normal. In my case my numbers consistently sat in the 300's throughout my 30's and start to my 40's. The highest I ever measured was a Total T of 396. However, I always believed that these numbers were suppressed because I had gained 90-100 lbs since college. Many doctors assured me that once I'd lose weight my T would go back up? Was that totally true? Could I have doubled my numbers naturally simply by dropping all the weight? Would that have saved me from having to inject synthetic hormones in my body?

For the record I have lost and regained a lot of weight over the years. Sometimes I would do it simply with diet and other times I added weight training and cardio to the mix. It wasn't until this past year that my ability to lose weight vanished. My thyroid has definitely played a role in that and now I'm finally getting treated for it, but that does not stop from thinking about one huge question. Did low T cause my massive weight gain or did my massive weight gain cause my low T? There's no way to fully find out, but I do know a few things. Once I started TRT my cravings for sugar and junk food went away. They are not completely gone, but they are not even close to potent as it was when before TRT. TRT also helped with my anxiety and my overall mood. Most of the times I went on binging episodes was because I was feeling anxiety for things that shouldn't stress me out. Food was my drug of choice, my consoler. Cravings for sugar could be very powerful.

I'm not doubting the efficacy of what TRT can do and has already done for me. Like I said my energy is up, my mood is stable, I'm more confident, and can lift heavier in the gym. However, it has me thinking of whether my numbers could have ever recovered naturally with weight loss. Since college I have put on about 90-100 lbs which is all on me, I understand that. I'm taking care of that now so I'm sitting here wondering what happens if I lose all the weight, drop my BF% to where I want to be, and put on some much needed muscle. Will TRT be necessary then? Could my numbers recover naturally? I believe everybody would prefer for their own bodies to work as they should without the help of medication. It's an interesting question to ask. My journey is just starting with my main goals being libido restoration and weight loss. I just received all my medications and I'm excited to now be fully equipped, but these questions still linger in my mind.
 
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HealthMan

Member
You like many men bet all your cards on TRT as a miracle solution for things. It is not. How is your diet? Not many men are putting 100 pounds on because of low T. Your diet gotta be terrible. If i were on your shoes I would clean up my diet and exercise. Very possible that once you achieve a healthy weight your testosterone will improve.
Can TRT help you lose weight? Possible. Will it help if you keep your diet and exercise protocol the way it is? Not really.
 

KenLowT

Active Member
You like many men bet all your cards on TRT as a miracle solution for things. It is not. How is your diet? Not many men are putting 100 pounds on because of low T. Your diet gotta be terrible. If i were on your shoes I would clean up my diet and exercise. Very possible that once you achieve a healthy weight your testosterone will improve.
Can TRT help you lose weight? Possible. Will it help if you keep your diet and exercise protocol the way it is? Not really.

HealthMan, I owned up to the fact that I gained weight because I lost self control. However, with that being said hormones play a huge factor on your mood, your cravings, and your overall well being. Binge eating is something I never did until college, it came out of nowhere. Anxiety came out of nowhere too and got way out of control which then led to the binge eating. How did that happen? I don't expect everybody to understand what I went through, but your message is very condescending and misinformed. For the last year and half I have busted my butt in the gym and in the kitchen to get this weight off yet my body is not responding like it has in the past. I know my thyroid is playing a huge role in all of this and my low TRT is certainly not helping the situation. I'm not some random guy thinking TRT and thyroid medicine is going to help me to lose weight and solve all my problems. I'm not that guy trying Weight Watchers and Jenny Craig to help me lose weight. I've made lifestyle changes, kept at a strict caloric deficit, and lift or do cardio 6 out of 7 days. But I do know TRT and thyroid treatment will help me in areas where I need it. Your post is just plain rude and judgmental, pretty much like all the doctors who never treated me for thyroid because they ASSUMED that I was being less than honest about my diet and workout habits. Or like other doctors who ASSUMED my cystic acne issues were caused by uncleanliness on my part when it turns out a food intolerance was the root cause. Perhaps you didn't mean for your post to come off like that, but it did. I'm hoping to hear from guys who have been through what I've been through, to hear their thoughts. I'm not looking for excuses, just trying to find the connection between hormones and how they effect different facets of our lives.
 
M

MarkM

Guest
Ken, it's hard to say that if you drop that 100 lbs you'd like to get rid of and get off of TRT that you would get back to where you were plus make up for the lower testosterone you had because of the heavier weight. Basically, would you get back to mid range with testosterone of around 600? I don't think so. Most, if they stop, TRT go back close to where they were prior to getting on TRT.

There are so many variables and we are all different in our chemistry. It could be that without the weight gain your numbers could have been exactly the same because of genetics. The only way to know is to get where you'd like to be on TRT, with your continued diet and exercise, and then come off of TRT and see if your natural levels increase over your pre-TRT levels.

Personally, I don't think that under the best conditions that you are going to double your pre-TRT natural levels to a point that would be acceptable to you. However, I could be wrong. Once you get dialed in and reach the body composition you want, you may not wish to come off and jeopardize all the hard work you put into getting yourself to that point.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

HealthMan

Member
HealthMan, I owned up to the fact that I gained weight because I lost self control. However, with that being said hormones play a huge factor on your mood, your cravings, and your overall well being. Binge eating is something I never did until college, it came out of nowhere. Anxiety came out of nowhere too and got way out of control which then led to the binge eating. How did that happen? I don't expect everybody to understand what I went through, but your message is very condescending and misinformed. For the last year and half I have busted my butt in the gym and in the kitchen to get this weight off yet my body is not responding like it has in the past. I know my thyroid is playing a huge role in all of this and my low TRT is certainly not helping the situation. I'm not some random guy thinking TRT and thyroid medicine is going to help me to lose weight and solve all my problems. I'm not that guy trying Weight Watchers and Jenny Craig to help me lose weight. I've made lifestyle changes, kept at a strict caloric deficit, and lift or do cardio 6 out of 7 days. But I do know TRT and thyroid treatment will help me in areas where I need it. Your post is just plain rude and judgmental, pretty much like all the doctors who never treated me for thyroid because they ASSUMED that I was being less than honest about my diet and workout habits. Or like other doctors who ASSUMED my cystic acne issues were caused by uncleanliness on my part when it turns out a food intolerance was the root cause. Perhaps you didn't mean for your post to come off like that, but it did. I'm hoping to hear from guys who have been through what I've been through, to hear their thoughts. I'm not looking for excuses, just trying to find the connection between hormones and how they effect different facets of our lives.
It is easy to blame hormones. Hard is to take responsibility and control of your life. All i am saying is TRT alone will not save you. You need to embrace a healthy life style. Unless you have some serious issues going on lose weight is a matter of eating less than what you need to mantain your weight. I didn’t mean to be rude or disrespectful. It is just a reality check. If I were you I would work with a nutritionist and trainer and maybe phychologist to help you. And again. Yes TRT will most likely help you. But would you really need if you adopted a healthy life style? You might think you are doing everything right but most likely you are not. You might need professional help.
I have worked with some people in a similar situation than you. They worked hard and never saw results. An easy check on their diets and exercise plan and it was obvious they were doing everything wrong. Hence they were seeing no results.
Sometimes in life we need to hear the truth not get a tap on the shoulder. TRT can help you. Maybe you can try it and see if it helps. But remember there is MUCH more to the game if you wanna lose weight and be healthy. However at your age i would rather put the effort and knowledge to lose weight and live a healthier life style and see if that would help raise my testosterone and improve how i feel than committing to TRT.
I wish you all the best and I really mean that.
 
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HealthMan

Member
And i agree with Mark. Very difficult to know where you testosterone levels will be if you quit trt down the road. Mine never really recovered. So this is why i feel like trying to lose weight and have a healthier life style before committing to TRT would be the best choice. Then you wil know for sure
 
M

MarkM

Guest
Ken,

Just checking in to see how you are feeling. I know you have now received all your medication. I am sure you've taking it. Can you tell any difference yet?
 

DragonBits

Well-Known Member
Hi guys,
I've been thinking about those of us who started TRT therapy because of our low, but normal Total T numbers. Many of us showed symptoms of low T, but our numbers sat right at the average of low normal. In my case my numbers consistently sat in the 300's throughout my 30's and start to my 40's. The highest I ever measured was a Total T of 396. However, I always believed that these numbers were suppressed because I had gained 90-100 lbs since college. Many doctors assured me that once I'd lose weight my T would go back up? Was that totally true? Could I have doubled my numbers naturally simply by dropping all the weight? Would that have saved me from having to inject synthetic hormones in my body?

For the record I have lost and regained a lot of weight over the years. Sometimes I would do it simply with diet and other times I added weight training and cardio to the mix. It wasn't until this past year that my ability to lose weight vanished. My thyroid has definitely played a role in that and now I'm finally getting treated for it, but that does not stop from thinking about one huge question. Did low T cause my massive weight gain or did my massive weight gain cause my low T? There's no way to fully find out, but I do know a few things. Once I started TRT my cravings for sugar and junk food went away. They are not completely gone, but they are not even close to potent as it was when before TRT. TRT also helped with my anxiety and my overall mood. Most of the times I went on binging episodes was because I was feeling anxiety for things that shouldn't stress me out. Food was my drug of choice, my consoler. Cravings for sugar could be very powerful.

I'm not doubting the efficacy of what TRT can do and has already done for me. Like I said my energy is up, my mood is stable, I'm more confident, and can lift heavier in the gym. However, it has me thinking of whether my numbers could have ever recovered naturally with weight loss. Since college I have put on about 90-100 lbs which is all on me, I understand that. I'm taking care of that now so I'm sitting here wondering what happens if I lose all the weight, drop my BF% to where I want to be, and put on some much needed muscle. Will TRT be necessary then? Could my numbers recover naturally? I believe everybody would prefer for their own bodies to work as they should without the help of medication. It's an interesting question to ask. My journey is just starting with my main goals being libido restoration and weight loss. I just received all my medications and I'm excited to now be fully equipped, but these questions still linger in my mind.

As I read your post, I think you are over 40 years old now?

Your peak TT was 396, though of course you don't know what it was in college?

If you stop TRT, recover to natural levels, sure, but you don't know what your natural level is, and it does decline at least 1% per year naturally. So subtact that percentage from whatever age you were at whatever peak you knew about.

I have exercised my entire life, I still have my original gym card dated 3/28/1975. Once in my 30s I dropped to 130 lbs by taking up running and diet, I got up to being able to run for an hour. But most of the time I was used to yoyo between 140lb-155 lbs, depending on mostly exercise levels. When I started to decline in TT around age 40, it got very hard to lose weight / exercise. I have no idea what my TT was before that, but at age 43 I was 376 ng/dl.

I gradually gained weight up to 190 lbs at age 57, and then went on TRT. That gave me the energy to lose 30 lbs down to 160 lbs. No special diet, but I lost a craving for sweets.

I stoppled TRT around age 62, my TT soon after that was 326 ng/dl, then recovered to my "natural level" of ~390 ng/dl. I gained about 6 lbs in 3 years, my biggest hit was in stamina down 50%, strength lost maybe 25%.

Recently at age 66 went back on TRT, so far it's been about 3 months and I have lost maybe 3 lbs, stamina up quite a bit, strength back up. It seems more difficult this time, though that maybe only perception. I know 5 months ago 12 miles of rolling hills on a bike would wipe me out, now i only feel invigorated and look forward to doing 30 miles.

IMO TRT will definitely give you the energy and motivation to lose weight. If you lose 100 lbs then stop TRT you will likely recover to your natural level of TT, but that might be 400 ng/dl, impossible to know. I didn't lose all of my gains stopping TRT, however any future gains in losing weight, gaining strength / stamina were impossible. (Though no doubt if anyone were put into a concentration camp type environment with severe calorie restriction, everyone loses weight.)

Regarding TT in general many young men with good TT gain weight, so it's by no means a panacea to losing weight, however low TT is nearly a guarantee to gaining weight and losing energy.
 

Systemlord

Member
There was a study showing 4 groups of men with low testosterone, group A were told to exercise and weren't given TRT, Group B were given TRT and told not to exercise. Group B gained twice as much muscle as they had previously and lost weight, group A didn't gain any muscle and lose zero weight.

The takeaway is the more muscle you have, the more calories you burn and this keeps the weight off.
 

KenLowT

Active Member
Ken,

Just checking in to see how you are feeling. I know you have now received all your medication. I am sure you've taking it. Can you tell any difference yet?

Mark M., I received all my medications on Tuesday other than the DHEA which I started on Sunday night. So far I feel exactly the same. I took my thyroid medication and don't feel any different, and yesterday was my first injection with HCG & Testosterone along with taking the AI. I don't expect to feel anything for a while since I just started. I'm going to be monitoring how I feel using Anastrazole which I hope effectively reduces my E2 without taking it too low. Once I'm a few weeks into this protocol I'll know if it's going to work.

Even though I'm optimistic, I won't get my hopes up too high. TRT has been very effective for me in all major areas except with libido. I'm starting to think that I'm just not wired to have a strong libido for whatever reason. I'm hoping that ED medicine will help me at least to have sex effectively even though I may not be in the mood. I'd like to say that I fully expect to see improvement, but I don't want to be let down again. For now I'll keep praying and hoping that things in the sexual department improve. Something I lost during TRT is penis sensitivity so I'm going to see if the HCG will bring that back. How are you doing?
 
M

MarkM

Guest
Mark M., I received all my medications on Tuesday other than the DHEA which I started on Sunday night. So far I feel exactly the same. I took my thyroid medication and don't feel any different, and yesterday was my first injection with HCG & Testosterone along with taking the AI. I don't expect to feel anything for a while since I just started. I'm going to be monitoring how I feel using Anastrazole which I hope effectively reduces my E2 without taking it too low. Once I'm a few weeks into this protocol I'll know if it's going to work.

Even though I'm optimistic, I won't get my hopes up too high. TRT has been very effective for me in all major areas except with libido. I'm starting to think that I'm just not wired to have a strong libido for whatever reason. I'm hoping that ED medicine will help me at least to have sex effectively even though I may not be in the mood. I'd like to say that I fully expect to see improvement, but I don't want to be let down again. For now I'll keep praying and hoping that things in the sexual department improve. Something I lost during TRT is penis sensitivity so I'm going to see if the HCG will bring that back. How are you doing?

Ken,

Being cautiously optimistic is prudent. I beleive as diligent as you have been in trying to get dialed in that you will get there.

As far as how I am doing? I am doing fantastic. Thank you for asking!

Mark
 
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Systemlord

Member
Libido and erections can take the longest to fully resolve, studies showing time for full libido can take up to one year.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3188848/
The time-course of the spectrum of effects of testosterone shows considerable variation, probably related to pharmacodynamics of the testosterone preparation. Genomic and non-genomic effects, androgen receptor polymorphism and intracellular steroid metabolism further contribute to such diversity.

Effects on sexual interest appear after 3 weeks plateauing at 6 weeks, with no further increments expected beyond. Changes in erections/ejaculations may require up to 6 months. Effects on quality of life manifest within 3–4 weeks, but maximum benefits take longer. Effects on depressive mood become detectable after 3–6 weeks with a maximum after 18–30 weeks. Effects on erythropoiesis are evident at 3 months, peaking at 9–12 months. Prostate-specific antigen and volume rise, marginally, plateauing at 12 months; further increase should be related to aging rather than therapy. Effects on lipids appear after 4 weeks, maximal after 6–12 months. Insulin sensitivity may improve within few days, but effects on glycemic control become evident only after 3–12 months. Changes in fat mass, lean body mass, and muscle strength occur within 12–16 weeks, stabilize at 6–12 months, but can marginally continue over years. Effects on inflammation occur within 3–12 weeks. Effects on bone are detectable already after 6 months while continuing at least for 3 years.
 
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KenLowT

Active Member
Libido and erections can take the longest to fully resolve, studies showing time for full libido can take up to one year.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3188848/
Well, better late than never. The Ceebis I took for the first time last night is showing promise. I don't want to get ahead of myself, but my body responded nicely to it. We'll see because Viagra just ain't cutting it for my ED. Lost confidence in erections is a libido killer.
 

KenLowT

Active Member
Ken,

Being cautiously optimistic is prudent. I beleive as diligent as you have been in trying to get dialed in that you will get there.

As far as how I am doing? I am doing fantastic. Thank you for asking!

Mark
Mark, share how things have gotten better for you. Give me hope, lol.
 

Systemlord

Member
Well, better late than never. The Ceebis I took for the first time last night is showing promise. I don't want to get ahead of myself, but my body responded nicely to it. We'll see because Viagra just ain't cutting it for my ED. Lost confidence in erections is a libido killer.

It's common for Viagra to not work with guys that are low testosterone, your pensis is an organ that requires healthy testosterone levels. Tissue is being repaired and unfortunately that takes time.
 

valexiz7

Member
I would say if you would have lived a healthy lifestyle, which includes staying lean. You definitely would not be on trt at your young age.
what if i was lean but without much bodyfat and considered “underweight” people seems to talk way more about excess bodyfat than skinny people
 

Vince

Super Moderator
what if i was lean but without much bodyfat and considered “underweight” people seems to talk way more about excess bodyfat than skinny people
Loosing adipose, especially visceral adipose which can have a drastic effect on reducing e2 and if your body fat levels are above 15% than lowering it will help immensely.
 

DragonBits

Well-Known Member
Loosing adipose, especially visceral adipose which can have a drastic effect on reducing e2 and if your body fat levels are above 15% than lowering it will help immensely.

I always found that odd about myself, I am probably at about 30% BF and most of it is abdominal fat and upper body fat. My legs you can hardly pinch any skin at all.

But I don't produce a lot of E2, so I am not sure why.

If a dexa scan were covered by insurance I would get one, it might be interesting, but I don't want to pay for yet another test. No matter what it told me, I still need to lose weight.
 

Vince

Super Moderator
I always found that odd about myself, I am probably at about 30% BF and most of it is abdominal fat and upper body fat. My legs you can hardly pinch any skin at all.

But I don't produce a lot of E2, so I am not sure why.

If a dexa scan were covered by insurance I would get one, it might be interesting, but I don't want to pay for yet another test. No matter what it told me, I still need to lose weight.
Looking at your picture, you don't look overweight.
 
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