Is it normal to feel a dip in feeling well when changing protocol?

[Goel]

I've been on Test Cyp for 8 weeks and have noticed very definite cycles in how I feel throughout the week which is common from what I've read here.

I started at 100mg once/week administered on Friday afternoons. To try to flatten the curve, I'm keeping the total dosage the same but this week I switched to every 3rd day which seems easier to manage than 3.5 days and i don't mind that the days aren't the same from one week to the next. Weds morning I injected 50 mg ... and felt like crap most of the rest of the week.

Could just be coincidence but is it normal to tank a bit when changing protocols? Or could be that at 8 weeks my "honeymoon phase" is over.

I just administered another 50 mg this morning (Saturday) but of course it's too soon to feel anything from that yet.

 

[madman]

I've been on Test Cyp for 8 weeks and have noticed very definite cycles in how I feel throughout the week which is common from what I've read here.

I started at 100mg once/week administered on Friday afternoons. To try to flatten the curve, I'm keeping the total dosage the same but this week I switched to every 3rd day which seems easier to manage than 3.5 days and i don't mind that the days aren't the same from one week to the next. Weds morning I injected 50 mg ... and felt like crap most of the rest of the week.

Could just be coincidence but is it normal to tank a bit when changing protocols? Or could be that at 8 weeks my "honeymoon phase" is over.

I just administered another 50 mg this morning (Saturday) but of course it's too soon to feel anything from that yet.

Of course, switching protocols even when it is just the injection frequency will have a big impact on how you feel as it will take the body time to adjust and you will be clipping your peak--->trough levels when compared to injecting once weekly.

Levels need time to stabilize let alone for the body to adjust and it can be common for one to experience ups/down for 4 weeks.

No one is going to feel good off the hop.

You need to keep in mind that you were going to keep your overall weekly dose the same 100 mg/week and split into twice-weekly injections (50 mg every 3.5 days).

Now you have gone and changed it up seeing as you are now injecting every 3 days than you would need to lower your dose slightly if you plan on maintaining 100 mg/week dose.

 

[madman]

When tweaking protocol (dose T or injection frequency) wait 6 weeks then have blood work done.

You need to make sure you have your TT/FT tested (accurate assay ED or UF) let alone SHBG, estradiol (LC-MS/MS), PSA, and CBC which will include RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit.

DHT and Prolactin can be added also.

For all we know your estradiol, RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit levels may very well be high as on your most recent labs (100 mg/week) your TROUGH FT is through the roof which is going to drive these blood marks up.

You need to know where your SHBG sits and it should have been tested pre-trt along with estradiol and hemoglobin/hematocrit but unfortunately, your doctor has no clue of the importance!

 

[madman]

On trt patience is key.

Most would say start low and go slow.

Do not get discouraged, stick it out and things will improve over time.

Some get lucky and find what works and others may be in for a bumpy ride.

Keep in mind that there is much more involved than just achieving a healthy TT/FT level.

 

[madman]

post#11

Onset of effects of testosterone treatment and time span until maximum effects are achieved

Free Testosterone Lab Test Range: Quest vs LabCorp Results

I was looking through some labs and feeling like I'm comparing apples to oranges and if so, how to interpret things. On a pre-TRT lab from Quest, the "Free Testosterone" reading is 51.3 pg/ml (range 35.0-155.0 pg/ml) On a post-TRT follow up lab from LabCorp, the "Free Tesosterone (Direct)"...

www.excelmale.com

 

[madman]

Pre Trt panel

54 yr old starting Trt. After screening panel seen in pics below Doc put me on 200mg test cyp once weekly. I’ll be back for bloods again day before my 7th injection. Does this protocol look good for my initial panel

www.excelmale.com

 

[madman]

What is the strength of your testosterone 200 mg/ml or 100 mg/ml?

The most commonly prescribed esterified T is enanthate or cypionate 200 mg/ml strength.

Are you using a fixed insulin syringe?

 

[Goel]

200mg/ml. I gave my dosage in mg, so in terms of ml I'm taking .5ml / week

Started off using 22 gauge syringes but switched this week to 28 gauge fixed needle insulin syringes

 

[madman]

200mg/ml. I gave my dosage in mg, so in terms of ml I'm taking .5ml / week

Started off using 22 gauge syringes but switched this week to 28 gauge fixed needle insulin syringes

You should have no issues when drawing/injecting using 28G although it will be a slower process than using those mini-harpoons!

1 ml insulin syringe = 100 units

Strength testosterone 200 mg/ml

.01 ml (1 unit) = 2 mg esterified T


If you were going to keep your overall weekly dose the same (100 mg/week) and split into twice-weekly injections (50 mg every 3.5 days) than you would be drawing/injecting .25 ml (25 units) every 3.5 days.

Seeing as you would prefer injecting every 3 days then you would be better off drawing/injecting 21 units (42 mg).

 

[madman]

If you are injecting 25 units (50 mg ) every 3 days then you are just bumping up your T dose which is not what you need as your FT levels are already sky-high.

In many cases when moving from once weekly and splitting the dose into twice-weekly injections one can still achieve great levels as you are clipping your peak and improving your trough compared to once weekly and your trough FT is already very high on once weekly so you have lots of room to bring it down some.

Some end up even lowering the overall weekly dose slightly when switching from once to twice weekly injections.

 

[Blackhawk]

The quick math for equivalent dose based on 100mg/week E3D is 43 mg per dose.

As madman said if your free T is high, if you want to lower a bit, 40mg/dose E3D would be a gentle decrease to 93mg/week.

My personal experience is that reduction of 10% or more can produce some profound withdrawal. I prefer lowering in small increments.

YMMV

 

[madman]

The quick math for equivalent dose based on 100mg/week E3D is 43 mg per dose.

As madman said if your free T is high, if you want to lower a bit, 40mg/dose E3D would be a gentle decrease to 93mg/week.

My personal experience is that reduction of 10% or more can produce some profound withdrawal. I prefer lowering in small increments.

YMMV

I chose to go with 21 units (42mg) 98 mg/week instead.

Either way, injecting 42 or 43mg every 3 days will suffice.

Unfortunately, it is hard to try and convince someone that they may need to drop their dose down slightly when switching over to more frequent injections.

His trough FT levels are through the roof on 100 mg once weekly and unfortunately, too many are dead set on thinking that they need to run very high TT let alone FT levels to experience the beneficial effects of trt.

He has lots of room to bring down his FT some.

Even then I am interested in knowing where his SHBG, estradiol, and RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit sit.

Would be a shitty situation if H/H was on the higher end pre-trt.

Hard to believe H/H, estradiol and SHBG were not tested pre-trt than again are we really that surprised!

 

[Goel]

Thanks, I'll bring it down a bit Tuesday when I'm due again. Then meeting with the doc Wednesday and he may want it down even more.

 

[Goel]

As for other labs, the last full panel was a bit over a year ago, so obviously before TRT:

Hemoglobin was 16.3 (ref 13.7 - 17.7)
Hematocrit was 46.8 (ref 41.5 - 53.8)
Red Count was 5.33 (ref 4.33 - 5.82)

This one doesn't have SHBG or estradiol since it was routine physical from my regular PCP

 

[Goel]

Met with Doc this afternoon, he advised to continue my revised protocol. He suspects lab error, admittely rare, with my recent lab results and took a blood draw today 3.5 days since my last injection - injected 1/2 dose tonight - then another draw tomorrow to confirm the previous lab results.

I asked about the recent downturn in how I felt and he partially chalked it up to the beginning of my body shutting down natural T production and partly to getting into steady state with my initial protocol. In either case, he advised me to stick to the course and give it another month or so. Depending on the validation of my last (suspect) results he said I had room to bump my dosage a bit but let's wait and see.

 

[madman]

Met with Doc this afternoon, he advised to continue my revised protocol. He suspects lab error, admittely rare, with my recent lab results and took a blood draw today 3.5 days since my last injection - injected 1/2 dose tonight - then another draw tomorrow to confirm the previous lab results.

I asked about the recent downturn in how I felt and he partially chalked it up to the beginning of my body shutting down natural T production and partly to getting into steady state with my initial protocol. In either case, he advised me to stick to the course and give it another month or so. Depending on the validation of my last (suspect) results he said I had room to bump my dosage a bit but let's wait and see.

This is a complete mess!

Replied to your other thread.

First labs since starting TRT - very surprised by results!

Baseline labs were: TT = 427 FT = 12.17 As stated in my Introduction post, that was higher than I'd tested a few years ago (324) when I felt better than I did this cycle. But I also tested this baseline first thing in the morning when T is usually higher. Commenced Test Cyp at 100mg...

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