Lower dose or daily injections?

[johnnybones]

Current protocol: 116mg a week(split into 2 doses e3.5days)
HCG: 115 IU twice a week(I know its low, anything higher makes my estrogen go bonkers)

Last labs:
Total test: 979 High ng/dL 264 - 916
Free Test: 32.4 High pg/mL 9.3 - 26.5
E2: 49.9 High pg/mL 8.0 - 35.0

Labs were taken at trough on a monday morning. I have battled high estrogen sides almost the entire time I have been on TRT which is almost two years now. However, they were only severe when my HCG was 250iu twice a week. At a certain point after messing with my dosing schedule for so long I was burnt out with tinkering, and honestly happy enough. I had made so many gains from pre TRT that I was ok where I was. My libido was nowhere what it was my whole life, but I wasn't a sexless robot anymore, my joints didn't feel like they were breaking anymore, and I got back my emotions and empathy. I think most of those symptoms were from low to no estrogen, as they came roaring back when I experimented with Arimidex and tanked my e2. So here I am today and high estrogen symptoms have worsened. Depressive moods, water retention, energy is shit, erections soft, etc. I have not wanted to lower my dose because of the idiotic notion that more is always better, but that obviously is not the case. So my question is, should I lower dose to 108mg a week(or 100), or should I try out daily injections like others on this board in an attempt to control e2?

 

[Vince]

I would probably go with the lower dose, it really seems to help in lowing E2. Have you had a complete thyroid panel, TSH, FT4, FT3. reverse T3 and antibodies. I think it's good to have your thyroid checked when starting TRT, just to make sure none of your symptoms are thyroid related.

 

[sh1973]

Looking at your free t and the symptoms you’re stating a dose drop would be in order. I’m not a doctor but if it were me I’d drop down to 80mg weekly. I battled high levels for years as you thinking more is better and I’m currently doing 68mg weekly and feeling great.

 

[MarkM]

Do you know where your SHBG sits? That helps determine injection frequency and can give you an idea of where your Free Estradiol is, high of low. I am guessing your SHBG is on the low end of the scale.

 

[johnnybones]

I would probably go with the lower dose, it really seems to help in lowing E2. Have you had a complete thyroid panel, TSH, FT4, FT3. reverse T3 and antibodies. I think it's good to have your thyroid checked when starting TRT, just to make sure none of your symptoms are thyroid related.

Ive had a complete thyroid panel with the above labs listed done twice with no abnormalities. Numbers in a good optimized place. I think I agree that I need to lower my dose. What should I drop down to? I am changing the protocol today, and will be doing lab work 5 weeks from now. I was gonna drop down from 116 to 108. Should I go lower? I just don’t want to overshoot my sweet spot

 

[johnnybones]

Do you know where your SHBG sits? That helps determine injection frequency and can give you an idea of where your Free Estradiol is, high of low. I am guessing your SHBG is on the low end of the scale.

Last SHBG: 33 (11 - 80 nmol/L)

 

[MarkM]

Ive had a complete thyroid panel with the above labs listed done twice with no abnormalities. Numbers in a good optimized place. I think I agree that I need to lower my dose. What should I drop down to? I am changing the protocol today, and will be doing lab work 5 weeks from now. I was gonna drop down from 116 to 108. Should I go lower? I just don’t want to overshoot my sweet spot

I would probably drop down to 100 mg a week, 50 mg every 3.5 days. However, if you feel more comfortable only dropping to 108 then go with that.

 

[johnnybones]

I would probably drop down to 100 mg a week, 50 mg every 3.5 days. However, if you feel more comfortable only dropping to 108 then go with that.

Yea when I first started trt I made big jumps and ended up having to work backwards because of my impatience. So now I’m a fan of tiny tweaks, so I think I’ll go with the 108. If e2 is still high in 5 weeks I’ll drop to 100. Just sucks because I know I’m about to have like 1-2 weeks for feeling like I’m not on TRT at all. Happens every damn time I change dosage without fail.

 

[MarkM]

I'm hoping you won't feel a drastic change. Keep us posted.

 

[Vince Carter]

Yea when I first started trt I made big jumps and ended up having to work backwards because of my impatience. So now I'm a fan of tiny tweaks, so I think I'll go with the 108. If e2 is still high in 5 weeks I'll drop to 100. Just sucks because I know I'm about to have like 1-2 weeks for feeling like I'm not on TRT at all. Happens every damn time I change dosage without fail.

If money allows for you please add a test to your follow on labs "Estradiol, Free" Otherwise I concur with the dose change and small changes. 80mg is much too much of a change. 108 sounds good. E probably needs to be closer to your SHBG value. Include SHBG in your labs also if $ allows you too.

 

[johnnybones]

If money allows for you please add a test to your follow on labs "Estradiol, Free" Otherwise I concur with the dose change and small changes. 80mg is much too much of a change. 108 sounds good. E probably needs to be closer to your SHBG value. Include SHBG in your labs also if $ allows you too.

Not at a point to drop 100$ on that. I moved states so found a new hormone doc. As with almost all it’s not cheap when starting up. I’m younger so it’s really my only option, and they are up to date on protocols and such.

 

[Vince]

Ive had a complete thyroid panel with the above labs listed done twice with no abnormalities. Numbers in a good optimized place. I think I agree that I need to lower my dose. What should I drop down to? I am changing the protocol today, and will be doing lab work 5 weeks from now. I was gonna drop down from 116 to 108. Should I go lower? I just don't want to overshoot my sweet spot

I agree with Mark, I would probably go with 50mg of test twice a week and see how you feel. When I made changes to my protocol, it usually takes me a full 12 weeks before I notice a difference.

 

[johnnybones]

I agree with Mark, I would probably go with 50mg of test twice a week and see how you feel. When I made changes to my protocol, it usually takes me a full 12 weeks before I notice a difference.

Went ahead and stuck with 108mg. Will update when I have labs, and yes I do realize it can take a very long time to see subjective benefits. At 5 weeks I am just looking to have my e2 numbers looking better, and then Ill sit at that dosage until I feel some benefits. I learned early on that being impatient with TRT will never work. It was the hardest lesson for me to learn.

 

[Vince Carter]

Went ahead and stuck with 108mg. Will update when I have labs, and yes I do realize it can take a very long time to see subjective benefits. At 5 weeks I am just looking to have my e2 numbers looking better, and then Ill sit at that dosage until I feel some benefits. I learned early on that being impatient with TRT will never work. It was the hardest lesson for me to learn.

Symptoms....not the numbers.

 

[johnnybones]

Symptoms....not the numbers.

I agree, but I was referring to Vince saying it can take 12 weeks to notice changes. Right now my e2 is almost 50 at trough. The goal is to get it closer to 30 and then see if for me, subjectively, do I feel better symptom wise at a lower e2? I honestly could give a shit if my e2 was 50 and I felt great, as that is not a super high e2. However, I feel high estrogen sides so it makes sense that I would feel better slightly lower. Then again with TRT nothing is certain lol

 

[Gman86]

Yea when I first started trt I made big jumps and ended up having to work backwards because of my impatience. So now I’m a fan of tiny tweaks, so I think I’ll go with the 108. If e2 is still high in 5 weeks I’ll drop to 100. Just sucks because I know I’m about to have like 1-2 weeks for feeling like I’m not on TRT at all. Happens every damn time I change dosage without fail.

Not feeling well during a dosage change is something I’ve seen people report many many times here, and I think I’ve experienced it as well when dropping my dosage. Do you guys think this occurs with any dosage change, or just when decreasing dosage? Just wondering if you guys have experienced it with a dosage increase as well.

 

[Sean Mosher]

Yes, use the numbers as a guide, but like Vince Carter said, not an absolute target but symptom resolution.