Hello, question on being switched from cypionate to androgel.

[Mitzilplix]

Hello, new member here. I am mike.

I have been on T for about 4 years. I was doing a twice weekly injection into belly fat of cypionate at 100mg a week split into 2 injections.

Before I started T my T level was around 200. I think my T levels dropped in a big way in my early 20s as I suffered a drop in libido. I am now 49 and have been enjoying a healthy libido for 4 years, I’ve also been in a much better mood. I sleep much better, and overall, it’s been a nice change.

My doctor recently left the practice and I have a new doctor. After my most recent appointment, she said I am starting to show the first hint of man boobs. My estradiol level is usually between 50 and 60, and T level is usually about 800. She said estradiol is too high.

So, two weeks ago, she switched me to androgel, 2 pumps, 40.5 at 1.62. The last 4 days my energy has been dropping and today, it culminated with no energy at all. I am talking no energy, where everything is a chore.

My girlfriend is worried it will get on her and no longer sleeps in the bed and my dog is also always trying to lick it off. This is all super irritating.

I sent her a message and she said to let her know in a couple weeks how I’m feeling as androgel takes at least 3 weeks to build up in your system.

Has anyone every switched from cypionate to androgel and experienced a major drop in energy.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

Id say you were better off before and what is she doing lifting your shirt up? Injections are the bizz nizz and androgel has that danger when sleeping with your woman.
All she had to do was lower your injections even the slightest bit or increase frequency.
I'm no doctor but I think shes got you messed up!

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

Welcome Mike btw..

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

I agree with Fernando. It's non-trivial to get to a good steady-state protocol, so making a massive change to it seems like poor risk/reward. There are a number of ways to deal with estrogen before making such a major change that may not get you back to a good place. There is lots of discussion here in other threads on this topic, but going to 3 30mg shots per week sounds like a good place to start, or just going to 2 45 mg shots. Other things can affect estrogen too such as body fat level.

 

[Mitzilplix]

Id say you were better off before and what is she doing lifting your shirt up? Injections are the bizz nizz and androgel has that danger when sleeping with your woman.
All she had to do was lower your injections even the slightest bit or increase frequency.
I'm no doctor but I think shes got you messed up!

Thanks. Yeah, not happy with how I feel. Zero energy and I ache. I can’t believe the change. Very irritated.

 

[Mitzilplix]

I agree with Fernando. It's non-trivial to get to a good steady-state protocol, so making a massive change to it seems like poor risk/reward. There are a number of ways to deal with estrogen before making such a major change that may not get you back to a good place. There is lots of discussion here in other threads on this topic, but going to 3 30mg shots per week sounds like a good place to start, or just going to 2 45 mg shots. Other things can affect estrogen too such as body fat level.

Thanks. Yeah, she didn’t try to adjust my dose, she just switched me to androgel which she told me nothing about, just sent a message saying I am switching to androgel. So far, not so good. I didn’t realize it takes weeks to work and I would have to feel like this for a while.

 

[Systemlord]

Has anyone every switched from cypionate to androgel and experienced a major drop in energy.

Usually it’s the other way around, men going from Androgel to injections due to poor response to Androgel.

I find it crazy that your doctor switched treatments without trying to lower your dosage or even talking to you first. This isn’t a doctor, patient relationship, it’s a dictatorship.

I would prefer a doctor that wants to listen to my concerns before making a decision on treatment, like concerns about transferring the topical treatments to your girlfriend, or a child.

Now your doctor is responsible for your girlfriend, no longer sleeping with you, unbelievable!

This is a blunder F*** I would not be willing to forgive, I’d move on to someone else to manage my treatment, but not before letting her have strong condemnation from me!

 

[Mitzilplix]

Usually it’s the other way around, men going from Androgel to injections due to poor response to Androgel.

I find it crazy that your doctor switched treatments without trying to lower your dosage or even talking to you first. This isn’t a doctor, patient relationship, it’s a dictatorship.

I would prefer a doctor that wants to listen to my concerns before making a decision on treatment, like concerns about transferring the topical treatments to your girlfriend, or a child.

Now your doctor is responsible for your girlfriend, no longer sleeping with you, unbelievable!

This is a blunder F*** I would not be willing to forgive, I’d move on to someone else to manage my treatment, but not before letting her have strong condemnation from me!

I felt like lashing out at her today. Told her I felt like crap, and she said, “maybe it will go away? I think it takes a few weeks to get in your system?” Uhhhh…..ok?

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

I felt like lashing out at her today. Told her I felt like crap, and she said, “maybe it will go away? I think it takes a few weeks to get in your system?” Uhhhh…..ok?

I disagree, the gels absorb right away, and serum levels drop at night which is why one needs to reapply in the morning. Maybe theres a readjustment period but my euro says most men feel best on the shots.

What are you going to do Mitzilplix?

 

[Systemlord]

I felt like lashing out at her today. Told her I felt like crap, and she said, “maybe it will go away? I think it takes a few weeks to get in your system?” Uhhhh…..ok?

@Fernando Almaguer is correct, gels peak very quickly. The half-life is similar to Jatenzo, which is what I’m on, and I felt like a God before the end of the first week.

I reached a steady state in one week. I think your doctor is operating on fear, alone, and that’s not a good sign. This was a rash decision by your doctor which has derailed your treatment!

There’s no logic to what your doctor has done, then again, women aren’t about logic they go based on feelings. It is for this reason I would not want a “woman” managing my “male hormones”.

 

[Mitzilplix]

I disagree, the gels absorb right away, and serum levels drop at night which is why one needs to reapply in the morning. Maybe theres a readjustment period but my euro says most men feel best on the shots.

What are you going to do Mitzilplix?

I don’t know, I’ve sent her messages and she just responds, “keep me updated.” I can’t believe how I feel. I don’t know what to do at this point. I toss and turn all night now, so the lack of sleep isn’t helping at all.

 

[Mitzilplix]

I agree with Fernando. It's non-trivial to get to a good steady-state protocol, so making a massive change to it seems like poor risk/reward. There are a number of ways to deal with estrogen before making such a major change that may not get you back to a good place. There is lots of discussion here in other threads on this topic, but going to 3 30mg shots per week sounds like a good place to start, or just going to 2 45 mg shots. Other things can affect estrogen too such as body fat level.

What are other ways to reduce estrogen? My doctor that left the practice had me take estrogen blockers, but the second she arrived she took me off of those. Are there other ways you know of?

It was mentioned that I could try splitting the dose down to 3 times a week at 30 instead of twice a week at 50.

 

[Systemlord]

I don’t know what to do at this point.

Be assertive, take action, find another doctor.

 

[Mitzilplix]

@Fernando Almaguer is correct, gels peak very quickly. The half-life is similar to Jatenzo, which is what I’m on, and I felt like a God before the end of the first week.

I reached a steady state in one week. I think your doctor is operating on fear, alone, and that’s not a good sign. This was a rash decision by your doctor which has derailed your treatment!

There’s no logic to what your doctor has done, then again, women aren’t about logic they go based on feelings. It is for this reason I would not want a “woman” managing my “male hormones”.

Yes, I don’t see the logic behind this. I felt good, no, better than good. For the first time in many years, I had energy, good sleep and a libido. Now I have no energy, terrible sleep and my libido is all but gone.

Also, that gel is very expensive.

 

[Mitzilplix]

Be assertive, take action, find another doctor.

I am hoping to get her to change back to the injections by suggesting that I split the dose down to 3 or 4 times a week, so 3 at 30, or 4 at 20. I have read that it keeps it at a more even level and estrogen comes down as well.

 

[Systemlord]

I am hoping to get her to change back to the injections by suggesting that I split the dose down to 3 or 4 times a week, so 3 at 30, or 4 at 20. I have read that it keeps it at a more even level and estrogen comes down as well.

Your doctor has displayed a mentality of her way or the highway. This person cannot be reasoned with, considering what she has done.

Your doctor exercised bad judgment and it won’t be the last time she f**** you up.

 

[Mitzilplix]

Your doctor has displayed a mentality of her way or the highway. This person cannot be reasoned with, considering what she has done.

Your doctor exercised bad judgment and it won’t be the last time she f**** you up.

I’m hoping she can be reasoned with.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

What are other ways to reduce estrogen? My doctor that left the practice had me take estrogen blockers, but the second she arrived she took me off of those. Are there other ways you know of?

It was mentioned that I could try splitting the dose down to 3 times a week at 30 instead of twice a week at 50.

I'm not a good person to answer this since my estrogen tends to run low. Zinc and melatonin are both thought to be anti-estrogen. Losing body fat can also help. The "estrogen blockers" you reference are likely Aromatase Inhibitors which can be very tricky to dial in but if you were in a good place, then they may be okay, although accomplishing the same thing through changing dose and frequency is likely lower risk. Hopefully others can chime in as to whether changing the ester to Test-enanthate could help.

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

I’m hoping she can be reasoned with.

Yes and at some point the female doctor needs to be guided in the right direction or hit her with the ultimatum. Plenty of other urologists in the states.

 

[Mitzilplix]

Yes and at some point the female doctor needs to be guided in the right direction or hit her with the ultimatum. Plenty of other urologists in the states.

She is an endocrinologist. My doctor sent me to this medical facility. For 4 years it was great.