Completely different states of arousal - Androgel vs. Cypionate!

[Pacman]

Okay, so I do not know if this is only a difference that I am experiencing or if others have had similar experiences, or what not. So I decided to post this (slightly TMI) post on the differences I feel in sex drive/function/etc between the two treatments.

In short:

Androgel (4 pumps daily, usually 2 pumps administered + 2 more pumps administered an hour later)

- I could very easily predict when Iwill physically be aroused the most (generally sometime 4-7 hours after I apply the gel)

- Generally speaking, states of arousal were intense and very sexual (there's a reason I described it this way, you'll see in the next section when I talk about Cyp)

- Ejaculation was accompanied by orgasm, or something very close

- Erections generally only when aroused. Morning wood almost never.

- The refractory period was generally 3+ hours. Once I ejaculate, I probably will not be aroused for another 4-5 hours though.

Cypionate (0.8 mL/weekly)


- States of arousal are completely unpredictable and seem random (e.g. sometimes I feel physically aroused like crazy the day after the shot, then nothing at all for two days, then crazy aroused the day after that, etc... Also, the time of day varies - morning, afternoon, night. The week after may be something totally different in my body's sexual arousal "schedule")

- States of arousal don't feel very sexual, they just feel like I have a physical need to take care of, like on the level of peeing. Like, I just feel like I need to ejaculate and that's it. Very bland.

- No orgasm with ejaculation, but a satisfied feeling of taking care of a physical need.

- Erections ALL the freakin' time. Even when I'm not even aroused.

- Refractory period is usually half and hour or less. And then sex drive is gone 'till the next day.

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That being said, I do feel emotionally better on Cypionate than I did on Androgel (I feel more stable emotionally). Body hair has increased noticeably since I changed protocols two months ago. It definitely had a more positive effect on my body composition. I know this because I've been eating like shit the past two months and stopped exercising a month ago because of a back injury, and I don't think that I really gained much fat at all, in fact I feel lean relative to my eating habits and daily activity level.

So bottom line, it seems as if the Cypionate is doing me well emotionally and physically, but something weird is happening in the sex department. Anybody have (or had) similar experiences?

 

[croaker24]

I went from Androgel to Cypionate like you. With the Androgel on 4 pumps there was a period where I had crazy arousals and intense erections and orgasms. I also did have morning wood but not as consistent as with the Cypionate. I also was up and down a lot more - I'd have days of feeling tense and anxious or just completely out of whack mentally and emotionally.

Like you - I feel far more emotionally stable and relaxed on Cypionate. My arousal and erections are more volatile however, and more uncertain. I may have a few days or up to a week of good arousal and ease of achieving erections - then a week or two of low libido but still consistent morning wood, and still feeling good overall - emotionally and physically; but difficulty in achieving arousal or maintaining an erection. Sometimes I'm OK with just engaging in foreplay with my wife without achieving ejaculation or not feeling the pressing need that I have to have an ejacution - that the more important thing was the intimacy.

I wonder if it has to do with the hormonal balance with respect to DHT and estradiol, or maybe some sort of rebooting going on in the brain.

 

[Pacman]

Wow, so I guess that I am not the only one experiencing this. Is there some way to normalize/stabilize the body's "arousal schedule". It's not the biggest issue in the world obviously, but it is very inconvenient to not know when my own body will respond to stimuli and when not. If you are already in a relationship, then this is not so bad - you just work with each other I guess. But if you are in the dating world (or just meet up with women every once in a while), if you are not aroused and/or do not function well when the time calls for it, it can totally mess up dates.

What can someone do in this situation? Let's say I have a date tonight, and I am not feeling entirely "in it". Would T-Suspension be a viable solution? Are there other factors besides T levels that determine the "arousal schedule"?

 

[croaker24]

Feel for you dude. Being in a stable relationship with a great wife makes a huge difference. We are able to openly communicate about the situation and she is very understanding. If I was dating - I'd probably feel a bit of anxiety not knowing whether I'd be able to perform. While dating - it seems the interest is more physical, just having sex. While being married for a while - it's a deeper more emotional, intimate thing I think - and sex is just a part of it.

 

[CoastWatcher]

I was a classic treatment failure on Androgel. On enanthate, not cyp, I am far happier. The significant problem is that, near the end of the dose cycle, arousal is unpredictable. With an upcoming dose change, I hope to overcome that problem.

Coaker24 summed up the emotional side of the equation.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I have never been able to precisely predict libido based on common variables we follow. I know that my TT has to be close to 1000 ng/dL, my sleep hygiene has to be good, and my stress has to be managed to feel sexual. HCG has helped a lot. But there are other variables that we usually do not measure.

 

[Cooper]

I have been on both gel and injections and have experienced the same.

Injections more calm and better mental focus, consistent morning wood but less drive to do things like exercise or work around the house and almost no libido and no spontaneous erections.

Gel - Great Libido, more energy for things like working out, spontaneous erections during day, however not nearly as much morning wood, and not as mentally focused.

I have always thought it was because of the higher DHT levels on gel.

 

[croaker24]

Cooper - what are you on now, gels or injections?

 

[Cooper]

I am on injections (have been for last 1 1/2 years) but seriously considering switch back to gels

 

[Henry]

Wow, it makes me wonder. I feel the same on both gels and injections, but, to be honest, I never really paid attention. I felt good on both so I was just happy. I just got tired of sticking myself with those long needles.

 

[croaker24]

Henry -

I did not like the gels. I got tired of putting it on every morning. I got tired of insurance playing their paper chase/approval game making it a chore to get the prescription renewed every 3 months. I never did get my
levels up high enough on the gels - hence the inconsistencies in how I felt and the energy levels.

I'm fortunate that I have a wife who is happy to handle the injections w/o a complaint. Not sure why you would
be using long needles, I only use an 27 gauge, 1/2" and it's easy.

I wonder if Cooper. Pacman, or Coastwatcher were also injecting with HCG? I am not at present.

 

[Henry]

I was using 25G by 1-1/2 inch needles. I would inject myself in the glutes every Tues morning and Friday night with 60mg. I would also use HCG every M-W-F at 350iu's.

with Androgel 1.62, I'm at 4 pumps a day and the HCG is 150iu's everyday.

They both feel the same to me but on those hot August days, I don't like the sticky feeling on my shoulders with the Androgel. Now with the injections, I just got tired of the injections.

The one difference I see with Androgel is the numbers. They would swing from 489-627-827 all at the same 4 pumps, while the injections were rock steady at 950 or so. I still felt the same so I didn't mind. My DHT was at the top of the range for both and my estradiol sensitive was around 27-29

 

[CoastWatcher]

Not using HCG at the present time, Croaker24, though my doctor is urging me to consider it now that we plan on adjusting the protocol.

Not only did Androgel fail to boost my levels, I, too, came to resent the daily aspect of applying the gel. I never had insurance problems, but I certainly appreciate the few minutes each injection requires.

 

[Cooper]

I just got tired of sticking myself with those long needles.

Henry what are you using now - injections or gel?

 

[Henry]

Henry what are you using now - injections or gel?

Hi,
i'm using Androgel now. I'm hoping I can continue with it because my 6 month refill is coming up. It's always easier to get the test c refills versus the Androgel refill. I don't know why.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Henry, I've heard that - ease of injectable vs topicals - and my pharmacist explained insurance cos watch the refill pattern very closely w/the topicals. It's easier for a patient to change dose and protocol on his own with a gel than with an injection. They want to pay for what the doctor wrote and nothing more.

Just what I've heard when I was on Androgel.

 

[Pacman]

I wonder if Cooper. Pacman, or Coastwatcher were also injecting with HCG? I am not at present.

I am currently not on any HCG. I have primary and currently my LH + FSH levels are both double the maximum (slowly getting lower, 14 months ago they were both over 4 times the maximum!!). HCG is LH, so there's no reason for me to be on it currently. Once my LH levels get lower, I will consider it. Right now, it seems to be a waste of money for me, personally.

Henry, I've heard that - ease of injectable vs topicals - and my pharmacist explained insurance cos watch the refill pattern very closely w/the topicals. It's easier for a patient to change dose and protocol on his own with a gel than with an injection. They want to pay for what the doctor wrote and nothing more.

Just what I've heard when I was on Androgel.

Ease of use is subjective. I hated applying the gels every single day. And insurance and all pharmacies watch the refill pattern on all controlled substances, and testosterone is one of them. Of course they will pay for what the doctor wrote and nothing more. Why shouldn't they? They will lose money for no reason. Also, don't think that your doctor can get you covered for any dose. He can write you a prescription for any dose (your treatment is his responsibility), but insurance companies have their own limits, financially speaking.

And a patient can very easily change his dose on an injection just like with a gel. You have a minimum of one month's worth of the product (with the injection it is usually more like 3 months' worth).