HCG -- Total weekly or per dose matter most?

[readyforchange]

I felt my best when on 500 IU's 2x weekly of HCG, however, this also led to my most significant challenges with controlling E2 and I had to up my anastrozole dose, which is something I'm wanting to avoid.

Anyone have experience with same total weekly dosages at different frequencies and their results?

I'm wondering if I could get the same positive effects of the approximate 1,000 IU weekly dose even if I split it into say 3 injections of 350 IU's M/W/F instead of 2x500 to potentially decrease aromatization.


Or would increasing frequency and changing dose per injection produce significantly different results?

 

[Vince]

When you say it gave you the highest challenges of controlling estrogen levels, are you talking about symptoms or just levels. I inject 500 IU of HCG twice-weekly, but many members cannot because of estrogen issues. I believe more frequent injecting of HCG and even testosterone would help lower your estradiol issues. You could also lower your dose of testosterone to lower your E2.

 

[readyforchange]

Vince --

Both levels and symptoms. I've tried the following (results included):

250 IU's 2x per week: Testicles shrunk, penis even hung tighter to the body -- plus E2 of 52 and anxiety/hot flashes/moodiness/fatigue

500 IU's 2x per week: Easily felt best on this -- noticed increased penis sensitivity (which has been a problem for a while, even pre-trt), mood, etc. better than any other time on TRT -- but pushed E2 to 69, and had to increase anastrozole from .125 2x per week to .25 2x per week.

350 IU's 2x per week: No testicular atrophy, but also not markedly improved sensitivity and mood/well-being benefits I noticed at 500 IU's.

Currently on Test Cyp only as a trial to see if HCG or anastrozole was contributing to anxiety/rapid heart rate symptoms I was experiencing, but it's been three weeks, so that should all be out of my system and those symptoms have not improved (plus, penis sensitivity has gotten much worse -- i.e. very hard to reach orgasm, and when I do, it's barely noticeable).

I'm wondering if 350 IU's of HCG dosed M/W/F with my 120mg test split into 3 equal doses of 40mg and .125 anastrozole at each time would produce similar benefits of 500 IU's 2x per week, but with less overall anastrozole weekly (since I was taking .25 2x per week last time I tried 500 IU's of HCG).

I'm at a point where I felt best on higher doses of HCG, but trying lots of different approaches, including lowering testosterone dosage and increasing frequency, I have to use anastrozole to control E2 while on HCG.

So at this point, I'm looking to find the best way to minimize the dosage of anastrozole if possible. I'm 31, and will be on this stuff for likely a long time, and with long-term AI use questionable, I want to be careful.

When you say it gave you the highest challenges of controlling estrogen levels, are you talking about symptoms or just levels. I inject 500 IU of HCG twice-weekly, but many members cannot because of estrogen issues. I believe more frequent injecting of HCG and even testosterone would help lower your estradiol issues. You could also lower your dose of testosterone to lower your E2.

 

[Vince]

This sounds like you may be like me and need 500 IU twice a week. Here's a nice thread by Dr. Saya.

What is the best dose of HCG? Dr Saya presents two case studies.

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...dose-of-HCG-Dr-Saya-presents-two-case-studies

 

[Deleted member 16042]

To me, Dr Saya's take home points of that study https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...dose-of-HCG-Dr-Saya-presents-two-case-studies :

"My clinical mind and instincts suggest that the “ideal” hCG dosage likely lies in between these two extremes (150iu vs 500iu) and ideal frequency will hinge upon ideal dosage (with 150iu or less dosages likely requiring daily or even more frequent injections) and larger dosages (500iu, possibly even slightly smaller) requiring no more frequent than twice weekly injections, but this conclusion simply cannot be made concretely from this limited data."

"a consensus on use and dosing/frequency has not been reached among practitioners and the situation is complicated by the degree of bio-hormonal individuality present across the population and the varying effects and goals of hCG treatment in different clinical scenarios (low SHBG levels, high estradiol levels, fertility concerns, etc). The data in this limited case study suggest that a dosage of 150iu hCG appears to attain minimal to moderate stimulation (serum concentration of 1mIU/mL) of the testicular leydig cells for a duration less than 24 hours and would likely be insufficient to attain continuous stimulation of the testicular leydig cells, UNLESS given on a daily basis, perhaps more frequently. Whereas, an injection of hCG 500iu appears to attain moderate stimulation (serum concentration 2mIU/mL -> 3mIU/mL -> 3mIU/mL -> 1mIU/mL) for a period slightly longer than
3 days (72 hours), likely enabling twice weekly, evenly spread, injections to attain continuous stimulation. As noted previously, I believe these patterns also suggest that a dosage regimen of hCG 250iu-350iu on an every other day (QOD) schedule would likely offer an alternative regimen for moderate, relatively steady and consistent testicular stimulation, although more data would be needed to confirm this conclusion."

And the bottom line for Crisler's outlook: http://drjohncrisler.com/the-crisler-hcg-protocol---part-deux.html :

"Since our goal in “Backfilling the Pathways” (subject of another report) is to produce as normal a hormonal landscape as possible, while simultaneously seizing control of the HPTA, providing a physiologic dose of the LH-mimic HCG is key. That means small, daily doses. Second best is a double daily dose, QOD (every other day). Third best is a triple dose Q3D (every third day). You get the pattern. I usually start them off at 100-150iu QD, based upon previous Medical History and, frankly, how I feel at the time about their case."

"If you are taking test cyp shots twice per week, and want to take HCG similarly, take the HCG (250-500iu) the day before the test cyp shot, each time. We don't want to unnecessarily stack the HCG on top of the test cyp shot. If you are doing QOD or even daily test cyp shots (some actually do), it won't matter."

 

[Vince]

Blackhawk awesome post. One thing we found out at least when someone's on trt, HCG is different for everyone. Some members can't use any and others use 500 IU every other day. It always amazes me how different we all are.

 

[MarkM]

This sounds like you may be like me and need 500 IU twice a week. Here's a nice thread by Dr. Saya.

What is the best dose of HCG? Dr Saya presents two case studies.

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...dose-of-HCG-Dr-Saya-presents-two-case-studies

I take 500 IU twice a week too, every 3.5 days on injection day. Wondering if I should take it the day before my injection though.

 

[Deleted member 16042]

I switched from E3D to EOD injected Nelson style combined with T cyp in the same syringe (though subQ). Dose adjusted accordingly, now on @270iu EOD. Too soon to tell for sure, but generally so far it seems my estrogen peaks have subsided and no discernible difference for the testes.

 

[Vince]

I take 500 IU twice a week too, every 3.5 days on injection day. Wondering if I should take it the day before my injection though.

I've always liked doing it on the same day as I inject testosterone, it's so much simpler that way. Then again I never had estradiol issues.

 

[MarkM]

Good point Vince. That would just mean two more days of an injection and it’s easier to keep it simple. No estradiol issues here either.

 

[theoneguy]

Blackhawk awesome post. One thing we found out at least when someone's on trt, HCG is different for everyone. Some members can't use any and others use 500 IU every other day. It always amazes me how different we all are.

I couldn't agree more, I have been on trt for 3 months now 250mg a week putting my test at the 2170 mark and yet many of my friends are taking the same amount and only getting 1100 while also needing to take 1mg adex 2x week and I take 0.05mg 2x week. It amazes me how massive the differences between each of us can be.