HCG Protocol

[James]

Hey Guys, what's the ideal HCG Protocol for a guy doing 1 time a week injections?

 

[John O'Connor]

I think most TRT/HCG users would recommend switching to E3.5D schedule for both injections.
Check out this link started by Dr. Saya - pay attention to his replies, as he guides a couple people with their specific situations and discusses why he doses certain patients higher or lower based on their specific situation.
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...-presents-two-case-studies&highlight=hcg+saya

And watch Nelson's video on the topic here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uXoBb6mkys

 

[ERO]

Yes, go to bi-weekly for both and you will have more even levels, less conversion to E2 and for most, a better experience overall.

 

[CoastWatcher]

If you are just adding HCG to your protocol, this would be the perfect time to revise your testosterone injection schedule. Make the adjustments as John and ERO suggest, give it at least four weeks, run labs to see what your levels are.

 

[James]

Some guys like that feeling from a bigger single dose of T. Guys with higher SHBG may also like once a week injections. I inject cyp on Monday and doc wants to put me on 250iu HCG on both Saturday and Sunday (500iu total). For a guy who prefers once weekly injections, does that schedule for HCG sound best, or is it better to separate the 2 injections throughout the week?

 

[ERO]

That is the older "standard" protocol. The logic is that since you inject your T just once a week, by the last 2 days of that week, your T levels are low, so those are the two days to inject HCG to (hopefully) get a bit of a boost to your T levels. It was "state of the art" a few years ago.

By all means do what feels best for you, but almost all of us here are going with bi-weekly injections (or more often) of both T and HCG as you just get less of a peak and valley in your levels that way.

 

[sustainedenergy]

I was initially put on once a week injections but after reading all the knowledge on this forum talked with my doctor today and will now be doing twice a week injections. I've learned so much in just a few weeks of treatment from this online community.

 

[James]

Good to hear it was cutting edge TRT just a couple years ago. Original doc may have wanted me on 100mg once a month. I'm feeling pretty good on Monday only injections, but definitely less energy Saturday and Sunday.

 

[ERO]

That goes away when you switch to twice a week T injections. No low energy days before your next shot. That and HCG works better when spread out instead of two shots on two consecutive days and then nothing for the next 5 days. Just something to consider...

 

[John O'Connor]

Good to hear it was cutting edge TRT just a couple years ago. Original doc may have wanted me on 100mg once a month. I'm feeling pretty good on Monday only injections, but definitely less energy Saturday and Sunday.

I experienced the same day 5, 6, 7 drop when I was on weekly, and upping my dose helped temporarily - but morning wood went from 3-4 days per week to 1 day per week with higher doses.

E3.5D makes total sense when you understand the science.
Cypionate peaks at 48-72 hours and its half-life is 8 days.

Your current program = big dose that peaks and has huge crash.
Wouldn't it be better if peak & trough were 900-700 range instead of 1,200-400 range?

Also as T spikes with larger dose - so does estrogen.
Wouldn't keeping estrogen in a tighter range also be good?

You said, "Some guys like that feeling from a bigger single dose of T."
Are highs & lows what we should want? Or should achieving an optimal steady state be the goal?

"Guys with higher SHBG may also like once a week injections."
Maybe for a few, but I'm just not sure the science backs up weekly doses for the large majority.
Just because weekly works, does not mean its producing the best possible results.

Post some labs. What is your SHBG, Estradiol-Sensitive, etc?
Good luck with what ever you decide.

 

[James]

Thought I'd touch on this again. I understand (its all over this great site), all the benefits of 2 or more testosterone injections a week, but the original question hasn't yet been answered. For a guy who prefers once weekly T injections, what do you guys thimk would be the ideal HCG scheduling?

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

If you're sticking with once weekly T Cyp, then HCG the day before your T cyp and 3-4 days later (~3.5 days). Many guys will do the two consecutive days prior to their T cyp injection which is often okay as well (if more convenient...ie injecting 3 days consecutively - HCG, HCG, T cyp). In reality, as long as you are ON HCG and injecting at least twice weekly at a sufficient dose (for most 250-500iu BIW) then your testes should remain active and you should receive most of the benefits of HCG (some which may not be completely known yet).

 

[James]

Outstanding. Much appreciated Dr. Saya.