HCG Mono and “Clomid Effect”

[JRos895]

I’ve been on HCG mono for some time now and my labs have recently looked strong.
(On 600iu EOD and .5mg Anastrazole a week, my labs have been T in the low 600s and E2 in the mid/high 30s. My SHBG is about 20.) Prolactin is normal.

While I have slimmed down alot on this protocol, I have been underwhelmed by other benefits (mediocre libido and EF and poor energy at the gym).

My question is, can HCG mono also have the “Clomid effect” where one achieves good numbers but poor symptom relief? If so, what is the mechanism behind this phenomenon? Would I feel better on T+HCG?

 

[Systemlord]

My question is, can HCG mono also have the “Clomid effect” where one achieves good numbers but poor symptom relief?

The answer is yes, typically men transitioning from hCG to TRT report much better symptom relief and therefore more benefits. hCG is one of those compounds that either enhances your libido, or it lowers it.

The majority of the time, men report diminished libido on hCG, even when used in conjunction with TRT.

You have a choice to make, do you want a strong libido or full size testicles?

 

[Systemlord]

If so, what is the mechanism behind this phenomenon?

LH is pulsatile, hCG isn’t, so there’s more stimulation of the LH receptor, or overstimulation. Do the same thing with TRT, jack your levels well above the normal range and watch the same thing take place.

 

[JRos895]

@Cataceous

Would love to hear your thoughts if possible.

 

[Cataceous]

I've tended to assume that hCG can skew the E2/T ratio too much towards E2, though of course it may not be this simple. As @Systemlord notes, hCG is rather unnatural as an LH substitute. I've also tended to view clomiphene as having similar effects with respect to the balance of estrogenic and androgenic action. However, the relative strength of enclomiphene over zuclomiphene has me questioning this. Maybe with clomiphene a dearth of estrogenic action is possible, rather than an excess. Unfortunately there's no simple way to measure this.

In any case, anecdotes strongly favor protocols with testosterone and hCG over those with hCG alone. Arguably the lower doses of hCG in the combined protocols make imbalances less likely. There is a reasonable chance you would do better with combination therapy. Unfortunately, even with this therapy some of us still have issues with libido and sexual function. I've suggested these may stem from the disruption of other hormones, such as GnRH and kisspeptin.

 

[Systemlord]

hCG also increases progesterone, DHEA and cortisol, so you can create an imbalance in these hormones. For someone with low cortisol while on TRT or TRT induced low cortisol, hCG can be very beneficial.

 

[JRos895]

Thank you both for your replies.

@Cataceous My theory is that the use of Anastrazole may be responsible for the “Clomid effect” with HCG mono. HCG mono protocols often require the use of anastrazole, which may counteract symptomatic relief. People have often reported feeling “low estrogen symptoms” on anastrazole even when their E2 is normal.

@Systemlord What is your source that HCG increases cortisol? I have never heard that before.

 

[JRos895]

The answer is yes, typically men transitioning from hCG to TRT report much better symptom relief and therefore more benefits. hCG is one of those compounds that either enhances your libido, or it lowers it.

The majority of the time, men report diminished libido on hCG, even when used in conjunction with TRT.

You have a choice to make, do you want a strong libido or full size testicles?

I may not have to make this choice if the HCG increases my libido.