Has anyone tried adding FSH to their protocol?

[trt reznor]

I've seen a couple of short lived threads on the topic, but nothing noteworthy or recent.

I'm thinking of adding a low dose of FSH (perhaps 35iu per week to start) to my protocol (30mg Test Cyp EOD, 250iu EOD) to see how it may effect other areas of wellbeing and function aside from just spermatogenesis.

I feel like this is one area of HRT that is largely unexplored. After all, do we REALLY know all of the roles that FSH plays? It's the one main hormone that is suppressed and ignored in our protocols.

I would love to hear from anyone that's had some experience with it. Thanks.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

It is an expensive hormone even if you buy it through Empower. I have not seen any quality of life data on FSH. Did you know that HCG has also FSH-like properties at the right dose?

 

[madman]

I've seen a couple of short lived threads on the topic, but nothing noteworthy or recent.

I'm thinking of adding a low dose of FSH (perhaps 35iu per week to start) to my protocol (30mg Test Cyp EOD, 250iu EOD) to see how it may effect other areas of wellbeing and function aside from just spermatogenesis.

I feel like this is one area of HRT that is largely unexplored. After all, do we REALLY know all of the roles that FSH plays? It's the one main hormone that is suppressed and ignored in our protocols.

I would love to hear from anyone that's had some experience with it. Thanks.

FSH function is mainly related to fertility as it acts upon the sertoli cells/maintenance developing germ cells.

 

[trt reznor]

It is an expensive hormone even if you buy it through Empower. I have not seen any quality of life data on FSH. Did you know that HCG has also FSH-like properties at the right dose?

Are these higher doses, Nelson? I have E2 issues and am oversensitive to anastrozole, so even at my 250iu EOD protocol i'm still pushing it.

I know that sertoli cells make up the majority of testicular volume, and have heard from the few members who've used FSH for fertility purposes, that it does plump up the testicles pretty well.

One member posted about adding 35iu per week through Empower, and that it cost him something like an extra $1200 per year. 35iu being about half of the recommended dose, though this particular member was able to get his wife pregnant on that amount.

 

[Vince]

Semen analysis results after adding FSH to TRT and hCG

 

[trt reznor]

Semen analysis results after adding FSH to TRT and hCG

Thanks Vince, that was the thread I was referring to. So the OP was taking 50iu 2x week, not 35iu a week like i had originally thought. No one mentioned any additional libido benefits or anything else like that.

So, i'm kind of shooting in the dark here. I'm almost 6 months into HRT and I feel worse than when I started. I know that's not an uncommon story. I'm getting new labs in a couple of weeks, I will go from there. Maybe seeing about getting a consult with Dr. Saya at this point. Or perhaps I might try to come off.

 

[Vince]

Thanks Vince, that was the thread I was referring to. So the OP was taking 50iu 2x week, not 35iu a week like i had originally thought. No one mentioned any additional libido benefits or anything else like that.

So, i'm kind of shooting in the dark here. I'm almost 6 months into HRT and I feel worse than when I started. I know that's not an uncommon story. I'm getting new labs in a couple of weeks, I will go from there. Maybe seeing about getting a consult with Dr. Saya at this point. Or perhaps I might try to come off.

Off hand I don't remember what your Labs were before you started HRT. A few members are able to feel good on low dose clomid. It's always an option if everything else fails.

 

[trt reznor]

My original labs weren't bad compared to most guys here. I'd have to post them and they're not on this computer. But TT was at 500. SHBG was 28. My followup TT after TRT was 1300, SHBG went down to 18. Estradiol, non sensitive was 71. IGF-1 was a little on the low side. What benefits I had at the beginning have pretty much all diminished. I've steadily lowered my dosage and increased my frequency. Most recent protocol is 30mg EOD and 250iu hCG EOD, on alternating days.

This newest protocol is only a week old, so I'm still willing to give it some time. I find that when I lower my dose it really throws me off for a little while. The best Ive felt was at the beggining I was at 20mg Test Cyp ED, 500iu hCG EOD. I think it worked for awhile until my E2 caught up with me. Tried Anastrozole a couple times at .25mg and it really throws me for a loop for a couple days, I even tried taking half the contents of the capsule at .125, and it pretty much had the same effect.

I hear some low SHBG guys having positive effects with higher doses, but I don't think I would be one of those, at least not without an AI. Even at 40mg EOD and 500iu, i was getting raised blood pressure, shriveled penis, water retention. Just not a happy camper overall.

 

[trt reznor]

I should add that I did try Clomid about 5 years ago, long before TRT. He started me at 50mg ED, then 25mg ED, then i moved myself to 25mg EOD. Had no E2 labs throughout so I can't be sure, but I had really high anxiety after a couple weeks of it. I did feel good for the first 4 or 5 days but that was it.

 

[StepbyStep]

With TT at 500 pre-HRT I would get off of HRT and not look back for some time. I don't know what your symptoms are, but I've been on TRT for over a year now, and am on a protocol very similar to yours with similar SHBG. It has pretty much been a shit show, where I feel worse more than I feel good. Just my .02, but I think a lot of us here would kill for your natural levels.

 

[trt reznor]

With TT at 500 pre-HRT I would get off of HRT and not look back for some time. I don't know what your symptoms are, but I've been on TRT for over a year now, and am on a protocol very similar to yours with similar SHBG. It has pretty much been a shit show, where I feel worse more than I feel good. Just my .02, but I think a lot of us here would kill for your natural levels.

I had all the trappings of low T symptoms. Though possibly thyroid issues. My TSH, T3, and T4 were in the normal ranges but Reverse T3 wasn't tested. I'd like to get a full thyroid workup from Defy and see if that's what my problem may have been.

StepbyStep, what does your protocol look like?

 

[Vince Carter]

My original labs weren't bad compared to most guys here. I'd have to post them and they're not on this computer. But TT was at 500. SHBG was 28. My followup TT after TRT was 1300, SHBG went down to 18. Estradiol, non sensitive was 71. IGF-1 was a little on the low side. What benefits I had at the beginning have pretty much all diminished. I've steadily lowered my dosage and increased my frequency. Most recent protocol is 30mg EOD and 250iu hCG EOD, on alternating days.

This newest protocol is only a week old, so I'm still willing to give it some time. I find that when I lower my dose it really throws me off for a little while. The best Ive felt was at the beggining I was at 20mg Test Cyp ED, 500iu hCG EOD. I think it worked for awhile until my E2 caught up with me. Tried Anastrozole a couple times at .25mg and it really throws me for a loop for a couple days, I even tried taking half the contents of the capsule at .125, and it pretty much had the same effect.

I hear some low SHBG guys having positive effects with higher doses, but I don't think I would be one of those, at least not without an AI. Even at 40mg EOD and 500iu, i was getting raised blood pressure, shriveled penis, water retention. Just not a happy camper overall.

You really should if it's affordable for you be testing "Estradiol, Free". If not, look at your LC/MS/MS E2 being in the same number range as whatever your SHBG if not under that number. For instance if your SHBG is 15, your E2 might need to be 15, or less. Your last para there about 40mg EOD is classic high E2.

But that part there about low SHBG and higher doses is categorically false.

 

[trt reznor]

You really should if it's affordable for you be testing "Estradiol, Free". If not, look at your LC/MS/MS E2 being in the same number range as whatever your SHBG if not under that number. For instance if your SHBG is 15, your E2 might need to be 15, or less. Your last para there about 40mg EOD is classic high E2.

But that part there about low SHBG and higher doses is categorically false.

It's affordable, I just can't talk the Dr into giving me the sensitive E2 test. I think they've come to trust me more over these months and now sort of let me go with whatever I go with. I'm speaking with one of the Dr's today to set up my bloodwork for next week. Can you remind me what LC/MS/MS is? I'm going to try to get E2 sensitive and E2 free this go around. As well as hematocrit and hemoglobin, thyroid workup, and test. Anything else I should add?

I really don't know how I could bring my E2 into the teens without an AI. I'm going to ask if I can get an extremely low dose of Anastrozole compounded. Like a .0625mg capsule, if that's possible. When I took the .25mg or .125mg, it would feel like my E2 would crash, then I would have this sweet spot as it recovered a couple days later where it was in the proper range, for maybe a half a day.

 

[trt reznor]

But I'm hopeful about this new protocol. Dropping my weekly test dosage from 140mg to 105, and my hCG in half from 500 to 250EOD. It took awhile for me to wrap my head around the less is more strategy with this stuff. The tendency is to always take more if not feeling optimal.

 

[Vince Carter]

It's affordable, I just can't talk the Dr into giving me the sensitive E2 test. I think they've come to trust me more over these months and now sort of let me go with whatever I go with. I'm speaking with one of the Dr's today to set up my bloodwork for next week. Can you remind me what LC/MS/MS is? I'm going to try to get E2 sensitive and E2 free this go around. As well as hematocrit and hemoglobin, thyroid workup, and test. Anything else I should add?

I really don't know how I could bring my E2 into the teens without an AI. I'm going to ask if I can get an extremely low dose of Anastrozole compounded. Like a .0625mg capsule, if that's possible. When I took the .25mg or .125mg, it would feel like my E2 would crash, then I would have this sweet spot as it recovered a couple days later where it was in the proper range, for maybe a half a day.

I have to use an AI even with 16mg/D of Cyp I convert a lot and even .25mg EOD of Anastrozole was not not getting my E down, still suffered with a lot of symptoms.
I switched to Aromasin @ 12.5mg/D and and doing the best Ive been on TRT with my E2 in the single digits as a trough number. Ive had a good number of my E problems resolve with this course of action.

 

[trt reznor]

I have to use an AI even with 16mg/D of Cyp I convert a lot and even .25mg EOD of Anastrozole was not not getting my E down, still suffered with a lot of symptoms.
I switched to Aromasin @ 12.5mg/D and and doing the best Ive been on TRT with my E2 in the single digits as a trough number. Ive had a good number of my E problems resolve with this course of action.

I suppose I could ask about Aromasin. Are you taking HCG as well, and how much? I'm guessing you're on something like Coast Watcher's protocol. You're a low SHBG guy?

 

[LiamJ]

It is an expensive hormone even if you buy it through Empower. I have not seen any quality of life data on FSH. Did you know that HCG has also FSH-like properties at the right dose?

What is the right dose?

 

[Vitamin_C]

I'm thinking about trying it, its not the cheapest but I feel like as humans we should have LH/FSH circulating around.

 

[trt reznor]

I'm thinking about trying it, its not the cheapest but I feel like as humans we should have LH/FSH circulating around.

I agree. It’s worth experimenting with, to me. I’m going to see about getting a vial. From what I read on the thread posted above, it’s 350 for one, and taking 50iu 2x a week the guy was able to make his last 3 months.

 

[trt reznor]

Just an update:

Doing much better these days. Feeling dialed in probably 4 days out of the week. Dropped the hCG altogether. Injection frequency is down to 2x a week, 150mg test cyp total every week. I’ve been experimenting with making my first injection IM; and my second subQ. I’m thinking about sneaking a single 300 or 225iu dose of hCG on sundays. But, at this point I’m really just fine tuning. I feel great on the average day. I think the hCG was killing all my benefits (was taking between 750-1500iu a week).

I wasn’t able to convince my Dr to let me try FSH, so I never got around to it. But now my girlfriend and I are starting to try for our first kid (I’m 38), and I’m moving to a local Dr that a coworker of mine has been using and recommends. Our company insurance covers blood tests and testosterone with him, maybe I can get him to write me a prescription for FSH, we’ll see.

In the meantime, has anyone else tried adding it to their protocols?