Finding the right AI dosage

[Pacman]

So long story short, I have been for years without an AI. When I started taking them (1-2 a week @ 0.125 mg/pill) my sex drive got better.

I had no idea I had an issue to begin with even with the blood tests with high estradiol due to the fact that I thought I felt fine (and my doctor said if I feel fine then there is no issue with slightly high estradiol). But now that I am taking 2 of those a week, I feel WAY better than I did before. So I realized that I had NOTHING to compare it to. Being on TRT, even with high estradiol is a million times better than being low T.

So at the moment this is kind of an "up in the air" question, and I know that they say don't fix it if it ain't broke, but... prior to me taking any AIs at all I thought I was fine, and only after taking them I realized I was not, because there was an improvement.

I am on T for life, and I want to know for certain that I am taking the optimum dosage for me.

On my regular protocol, I take my shot on day 0. Then on day 1 and day 3 I take the AI (0.125 mg each time).

I want to see how I feel on more AI just in case it will make me feel even more optimal, if that makes sense. And since these are micro-doses I do not see the harm in trying 1-2 more a week (I see here on the forum all the time people taking 0.5-1 mg a week!).

So what makes more sense:
1) To double the dose on the days I take them (so 2 pills of 0.125mg twice a week).
2) To add in two more days in which I take 0.125 mg? (so 4 days, on each day 0.125 mg)

Please let me know what your opinions are. I simply just want to be 100% confident that whatever dose I take is giving me the best possible results. (and the only way to know for sure is to have something to compare it to)

 

[captain_j]

I would say it probably depends on your injection protocol. Are you injecting just once a week? If so, you may want to consider more frequent injections with lower doses per injection. You said you've been on TRT for years so maybe you've already tried this.

I will say one thing though just on my personal experience. I've done the same thing you're trying here several times in the past. Went for a long period of time with no AI, then decided to take some because I didn't feel quite right, felt better, then was tempted to take more AI. I did that, and ended up pushing my e2 too low. You may just want to ride at the current dose for a little while just to make sure it doesn't end up pushing your E2 too low. Someone else on the forum may know the details, but I imagine it might take several weeks after introducing an AI into the protocol for everything to stabilize. But I know it's hard to resist the temptation.

 

[Pacman]

You said you've been on TRT for years so maybe you've already tried this.

Yes, I have. More convenient for me to inject once a week. I felt no real difference between once a week and twice a week split.

I will say one thing though just on my personal experience. I've done the same thing you're trying here several times in the past. Went for a long period of time with no AI, then decided to take some because I didn't feel quite right, felt better, then was tempted to take more AI. I did that, and ended up pushing my e2 too low. You may just want to ride at the current dose for a little while just to make sure it doesn't end up pushing your E2 too low. Someone else on the forum may know the details, but I imagine it might take several weeks after introducing an AI into the protocol for everything to stabilize. But I know it's hard to resist the temptation.

Several times you say? Why several times? Were you adjusting T dosages as well that you decided that? I could understand that.

If I can ask what dose AIs were you taking? I am asking because I read that Anastrozole is very powerful, but at the same time people usually say that when they are talking like 0.5 mg multiples, I've rarely seen discussions on dosages less than that. My pills are 0.125 mg (so I'd be taking 4 of them for what most others take in one dose minimum, i.e. their minimum dose = 2x my current dose). My hypothesis is that since these are such micro doses, it would be okay to take 1-2 more a week for a few weeks and see how I feel.

The challenge here is that I don't want to make mistakes, but on the other hand if I am just 1-2 AI pills away from being much more sexually vibrant and be totally acne free (I only have it on my back, and shoulders, and it reduced a lot with 2 AI pills a week) - I'd like to know that.

I don't want to go many more years not even realizing that I am not at my optimum level of vibrance and vitality. I want to know now. (hopefully that makes sense and sounds reasonable, but that's why I am requesting feedback from anyone who has feedback to give)

As a side note I have some challenges staying hard and/or aroused sometimes despite my T levels being optimal at their trough (both total and free) and it drives me nuts. For example I was with this girl recently who I found to be insanely attractive both body and personality but for some reason I had trouble keeping it up (even with Cialis which is the weirdest thing). I am also on a calorie deficit right now, so that definitely contributes a bit (last time I went on a cut my sex drive also was reduced and such, but I was also on a severe cut then (2200-2400 cal/daily) along with double cardio, and not like now (~2700 cal/daily) where it is more mild and I am doing only 30 min cardio a day).

 

[Vince]

If you’ve been taking your AI for at least three months, and your E2 levels are still in a good range. I would say it’s fine to try to increase your dose. I would say though, go slow. I would only increase it by 1 extra pill a week. After three months have Labs again, just make sure you don’t destroy your E2 levels.

It’s great that you’re feeling better. Nothing wrong with experimenting.

 

[Pacman]

Out of curiosity, how soon does Anastrozole work?

And which makes more sense:
1) Two pills in one day
-OR-
2) 1 pill one day, 1 pill the next day

Is one of the two above options preferable? My guess is that it is better to have two days the same as that keeps it more "balanced" as far as my body's response? What would you suggest?

 

[MarcoFL]

I am 120mg test per week split MWF. I take .5mg anastrozole on Tuesday and Friday and keeps my E2 around 30.

 

[trtthings]

Some anecdotal evidence here, the heftier of a dose of AI I take the stronger the morning wood the next day. I've never gone beyond .75mg but the results are granite. If I'm spreading .25mg I get it in a very mild way, and .5mg seems to be decent.

 

[Vince]

I think I would take a double dose on the first day, closer to your higher T levels.

Just my two cents.

 

[captain_j]

Yes, I have. More convenient for me to inject once a week. I felt no real difference between once a week and twice a week split.


Several times you say? Why several times? Were you adjusting T dosages as well that you decided that? I could understand that.

If I can ask what dose AIs were you taking? I am asking because I read that Anastrozole is very powerful, but at the same time people usually say that when they are talking like 0.5 mg multiples, I've rarely seen discussions on dosages less than that. My pills are 0.125 mg (so I'd be taking 4 of them for what most others take in one dose minimum, i.e. their minimum dose = 2x my current dose). My hypothesis is that since these are such micro doses, it would be okay to take 1-2 more a week for a few weeks and see how I feel.

The challenge here is that I don't want to make mistakes, but on the other hand if I am just 1-2 AI pills away from being much more sexually vibrant and be totally acne free (I only have it on my back, and shoulders, and it reduced a lot with 2 AI pills a week) - I'd like to know that.

The reason I say several times is because I've been trying to stay off AIs completely since I started TRT a little over a year ago, but I don't think I've taken a low enough dose of test yet to get there. Even when I take 20 mg test cyp daily, my E2 floats in the mid to upper 50s. I am going to experiment with 14 mg daily and see where that gets me, but lowering the dose always sucks and I hate doing it, but sometimes it's necessary.

I have tried both Anastrozole and Exemestane. When I was taking Anastrozole, I never took more than 0.25 mg at a time. When I was on 200 mg test a week, I was taking 0.25 mg Anastrozole EOD, and that kept my E2 in the low 20s. I took Exemestane micro-dosed in a vodka solution at 2-3.5 mg per day. When I took 3 mg per day with 140 mg test a week, it was too much and crashed my E2 down to 10.

It probably wouldn't hurt to bump yours to 0.25 mg per dose, but as others have suggested, I wouldn't go any higher than that until things settle in.

 

[antelopers]

The reason I say several times is because I've been trying to stay off AIs completely since I started TRT a little over a year ago, but I don't think I've taken a low enough dose of test yet to get there. Even when I take 20 mg test cyp daily, my E2 floats in the mid to upper 50s. I am going to experiment with 14 mg daily and see where that gets me, but lowering the dose always sucks and I hate doing it, but sometimes it's necessary.

I have tried both Anastrozole and Exemestane. When I was taking Anastrozole, I never took more than 0.25 mg at a time. When I was on 200 mg test a week, I was taking 0.25 mg Anastrozole EOD, and that kept my E2 in the low 20s. I took Exemestane micro-dosed in a vodka solution at 2-3.5 mg per day. When I took 3 mg per day with 140 mg test a week, it was too much and crashed my E2 down to 10.

It probably wouldn't hurt to bump yours to 0.25 mg per dose, but as others have suggested, I wouldn't go any higher than that until things settle in.

20mg cyp daily is a pretty hefty dose. That would put a lot of guys a lot a borderline supra physiological level. You're right the initial feeling of lowering the dose can totally suck but after a few weeks of adjustment you should be ok. I'd rather try a lower dose before resigning to the AI if it were me.

 

[Pacman]

20mg cyp daily is a pretty hefty dose. That would put a lot of guys a lot a borderline supra physiological level. You're right the initial feeling of lowering the dose can totally suck but after a few weeks of adjustment you should be ok. I'd rather try a lower dose before resigning to the AI if it were me.

20mg cyp daily is not considered a high dose. That's 140mg a week. Generally speaking, the maximum therapeutic dose is 200mg weekly.... I doubt anyone (except those really lucky few) can get to supra physiological levels from 140mg cyp a week.

 

[Pacman]

The reason I say several times is because I've been trying to stay off AIs completely since I started TRT a little over a year ago, but I don't think I've taken a low enough dose of test yet to get there. Even when I take 20 mg test cyp daily, my E2 floats in the mid to upper 50s. I am going to experiment with 14 mg daily and see where that gets me, but lowering the dose always sucks and I hate doing it, but sometimes it's necessary.

I have tried both Anastrozole and Exemestane. When I was taking Anastrozole, I never took more than 0.25 mg at a time. When I was on 200 mg test a week, I was taking 0.25 mg Anastrozole EOD, and that kept my E2 in the low 20s. I took Exemestane micro-dosed in a vodka solution at 2-3.5 mg per day. When I took 3 mg per day with 140 mg test a week, it was too much and crashed my E2 down to 10.

It probably wouldn't hurt to bump yours to 0.25 mg per dose, but as others have suggested, I wouldn't go any higher than that until things settle in.

Why would you want to stay off AIs completely if you need them to keep your estrogen levels in check? Especially if all you need is a micro dose?

Yeah 0.25 mg is two pills by me. What I decided to do is add 1 more 0.125 mg pill per shot of cyp (currently take 2 per shot). I am going to do this for the next few weeks and see how I feel. I think it would be wiser to try that in place of doubling dose of AIs on one particular day. Unless there is an issue with doing it like this? I really don't understand the difference between 2 in one day VS 1 two days in a row... @Vince would you be able to explain your reasoning? Is it simply because it's better to take double at peak T levels VS two days in a row smaller doses?

 

[antelopers]

20mg cyp daily is not considered a high dose. That's 140mg a week. Generally speaking, the maximum therapeutic dose is 200mg weekly.... I doubt anyone (except those really lucky few) can get to supra physiological levels from 140mg cyp a week.

My levels are 1500 ng dL on 20mg daily. When you split the dose to daily you generally need less. There is no maximum or minimum therapeutic dose, it depends on blood levels and symptoms. Considering that the average young males levels are 600-700, people above 1000 are extreme outliers, anything pushing someone over 1000 would be considered supraphysiological. Unless someone has low SHBG, 20mg daily is double what a healthy male produces daily when you cleave the ester. The total T number doesn't matter, but he posted about lowering e2, and you wouldn't expect e2 levels to be low injecting 20mg daily of a long ester.

 

[M.J]

No more AI for me, lower dose works fine.

 

[Charliebizz]

20mg cyp daily is not considered a high dose. That's 140mg a week. Generally speaking, the maximum therapeutic dose is 200mg weekly.... I doubt anyone (except those really lucky few) can get to supra physiological levels from 140mg cyp a week.

If you consider how much t a young healthy male produces daily on his own 20mg daily is a pretty large dose. On 140 a week my levels maxed out the LabCorp tests >1500tt >50ft.

 

[Vince]

Why would you want to stay off AIs completely if you need them to keep your estrogen levels in check? Especially if all you need is a micro dose?

Yeah 0.25 mg is two pills by me. What I decided to do is add 1 more 0.125 mg pill per shot of cyp (currently take 2 per shot). I am going to do this for the next few weeks and see how I feel. I think it would be wiser to try that in place of doubling dose of AIs on one particular day. Unless there is an issue with doing it like this? I really don't understand the difference between 2 in one day VS 1 two days in a row... @Vince would you be able to explain your reasoning? Is it simply because it's better to take double at peak T levels VS two days in a row smaller doses?

Yes. When you’re T and E levels are higher. Double your dose and on your second day, take the single dose. Hopefully you get good results.

 

[Pacman]

My levels are 1500 ng dL on 20mg daily. When you split the dose to daily you generally need less. There is no maximum or minimum therapeutic dose, it depends on blood levels and symptoms. Considering that the average young males levels are 600-700, people above 1000 are extreme outliers, anything pushing someone over 1000 would be considered supraphysiological. Unless someone has low SHBG, 20mg daily is double what a healthy male produces daily when you cleave the ester. The total T number doesn't matter, but he posted about lowering e2, and you wouldn't expect e2 levels to be low injecting 20mg daily of a long ester.

That is absolutely bonkers. Man you are very lucky, you must be saving so much money on T since you do not need all that much to reach peak levels....

If you consider how much t a young healthy male produces daily on his own 20mg daily is a pretty large dose. On 140 a week my levels maxed out the LabCorp tests >1500tt >50ft.

Yeah this doesn't happen with me lol. You are lucky to have such great conversions.

Yes. When you’re T and E levels are higher. Double your dose and on your second day, take the single dose. Hopefully you get good results.

Appreciate it, thank you.

 

[Charliebizz]

That is absolutely bonkers. Man you are very lucky, you must be saving so much money on T since you do not need all that much to reach peak levels....


Yeah this doesn't happen with me lol. You are lucky to have such great conversions.


Appreciate it, thank you.

It's not lucky at all cause I don't feel better at high levels.
I feel decent around 500 tt still wish I felt alot better

 

[Pacman]

It's not lucky at all cause I don't feel better at high levels.
I feel decent around 500 tt still wish I felt alot better

Out of curiosity, then why don't you switch to a lower concentration injectable? Like 50 mg prop or something like that? Or a gel or patch? Androgel if I recall correctly gives you like 5 mg per pump (something like that) which is much more similar to our bodies' natural daily production had we not needed TRT. 1-2 pumps a day and you are done.. Unless it's a money thing..? In which case there are compounding pharmacies that make it vastly cheaper.

 

[Charliebizz]

Out of curiosity, then why don't you switch to a lower concentration injectable? Like 50 mg prop or something like that? Or a gel or patch? Androgel if I recall correctly gives you like 5 mg per pump (something like that) which is much more similar to our bodies' natural daily production had we not needed TRT. 1-2 pumps a day and you are done.. Unless it's a money thing..? In which case there are compounding pharmacies that make it vastly cheaper.

I've tried the cream and gels I just feel better on 3x a week of test e.