e2 "normal" but not sure it feels that way

[Mino]

First, thanks everyone, this site has been a great resource!!

My current protocol is Injecting 80mg of Test C and 400IU of HCG every 3.5 days. I inject on Sunday morning and Wednesday night. Prior to the most recent blood work I was taking 25mg of DHEA/Prog nightly.

My last labs were drawn on Wednesday morning and were as follows:
Test: 1,154 ng/dL Range: 348-1197
Free T: 25.4 pg/mL Range 7.2-24
DHEA S 460.8 ug/dL Range: 71.6 to 375.4
Estradiol, Sensitive: 25.2 pg/mL Range 8-35

After the last blood work the DHEA was changed to 15mg nightly and the Prog was dropped. No other changes were made to my protocol. It has now been a month since I decreased my DHEA.

While I know that my e2 is in the normal range, I am very emotional. Like I tear up and simple news stories. This is something very new. I have also found that I tend to feel pretty flat.

My question is whether anyone has experience e2 that was pretty much spot on what you would want, but still feel like it may be to high for you? How do you assess this?

Any input would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Sean Mosher]

What was your estradiol before this last test and the new range of emotions?

 

[Vince Carter]

Changing the DHEA and dropping the Progesterone are significant changes, you should retest your E2 and then evaluate what's going on. It would be hard to believe that your E2 went up in this scenario, but low E often shares high E symptoms. My inclination is that you're E is too low now, from 25.

 

[Mino]

Sean, my prior labs were done under a different protocol. This was 200 mg of test c with no HCG. At that time my e2 was 52. So splitting the does into twice a week, and overall smaller does, along with the HCG seems to have smoothed out the peaks and valleys and reduced my e2. The DHEA was lowered because I was feelings on edge a lot.

Vince, thanks for the suggestion. It has been a little over 4 weeks since the change in DHEA/Prog. It sounds like I should wait until 6 weeks after the change to get additional blood work done. If I may ask, since I am not taking an AI what would you do to increase e2?

 

[Vince Carter]

If its been 4 weeks go ahead and get tested, that's plenty of time. Pull the E2 UltraSensitive and DHEA-S. Treating E2 by symptoms is a super advanced move with testing so cheap and available.

 

[Mino]

I was able to get the blood work back. Results were:

T:1242 ng/dl Range: 348-1197
FT:25 pg/ml Range: 7.2-24
DHEA: 396.3 ug/dlRange: 71.6-375.4
E2 Sensative: 30 pg/ml Range: 8-35

I had the bloodwork drawn on Tuesday morning, 2 days after the last injection.

Still experiencing being emotional Also feeling "edgy". I am also starting to see a pattern with having difficulty getting to sleep. I inject Sunday morning and Wednesday night. No issue sleeping Sunday night, but struggle getting to sleep Monday a little better Tuesday and better Wednesday. I admit that I see less of a pattern over the weekend, but some of that may be the glass of wine with dinner that tends to occur on the weekends.

Any suggestions of next steps?

Thanks in advance for your help?

 

[Zooka15]

I think your E2 is low compared to you Total T levels.

 

[Vince Carter]

I was able to get the blood work back. Results were:

T:1242 ng/dl Range: 348-1197
FT:25 pg/ml Range: 7.2-24
DHEA: 396.3 ug/dlRange: 71.6-375.4
E2 Sensative: 30 pg/ml Range: 8-35

I had the bloodwork drawn on Tuesday morning, 2 days after the last injection.

Still experiencing being emotional Also feeling "edgy". I am also starting to see a pattern with having difficulty getting to sleep. I inject Sunday morning and Wednesday night. No issue sleeping Sunday night, but struggle getting to sleep Monday a little better Tuesday and better Wednesday. I admit that I see less of a pattern over the weekend, but some of that may be the glass of wine with dinner that tends to occur on the weekends.

Any suggestions of next steps?

Thanks in advance for your help?

You should be drawing blood immediately before your next injection, not Tues but Wednesday instead. That can account for your 1242 TT. 30 is generally a fair number for sensitive e2, it could be, high, for you, you might like 35-40, perhaps. Or 30 is too high for you still. A very low dose of Anastrozole like .10mg could drop that a few points to around 25 perhaps and let you see how you feel there.

 

[Mino]

Vince, Since I inject Wednesday night would you recommend getting the blood drawn late afternoon Wednesday?

 

[GeauxBears]

I think your E2 is low compared to you Total T levels.

I agree with this. My anecdotal experience is that the T:E2 ratio is more important than the absolute values in terms of how I feel. With T levels that high I'd need E2 in the upper 30s to feel good.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Everyone blames everything on estradiol. This has been fueled by misconceptions and misinformation started by the Life Extension inaccurate article and by our chauvinistic belief that any female hormone makes us emotional and bloated men with boobs. In fact, this is as much true as saying that testosterone makes women masculine and aggressive.

Most cases of emotional liability, water retention and even gynecomastia have nothing to do with the absolute value of estradiol but a lot to do with how this important hormone is balanced by testosterone, DHT, thyroid and IGF-1. Men with low T, low DHT and/or high IGF-1 in the presence of what consider "in range" estradiol can have higher risk of gynecomastia specially if they are genetically prone to that.

Not one study has linked estradiol in men with emotional issues. Not one.

This misinformation fails men. Men who wrongly think that anastrozole will solve all their evil estradiol issues. This has caused, in my opinion, the most mismanagement by cash-based clinics out there.

We must address emotional liability in men on or off testosterone beyond a false obsession based on tales.

Sleep quality, stress management/relaxation techniques, the use of SSRIs (yes, I said it), and cognitive therapy would do men good. Doctors that do not address those factors and who lead men to believe that an evil hormone makes men emotional and bloated beings should have the heads examined.

Sorry for the rant. It has been one of those days when I have received way too many emails fueling false hopes of sweet spots and bullshit that some doctors preach.

 

[Vince Carter]

Vince, Since I inject Wednesday night would you recommend getting the blood drawn late afternoon Wednesday?

Are you night shifter worker or just have an afternoon preference? At least drawing blood the day of your injection would better for the trough.

 

[Mino]

Are you night shifter worker or just have an afternoon preference? At least drawing blood the day of your injection would better for the trough.

Vince, I have a normal day job. I inject Sunday morning and Wednesday night to achieve the every 3.5 day injection schedule. No issue with going in for blood Wednesday morning, just was not sure if I would be better off going in towards the end of the day, closer to the injection time. Thanks for the help.

 

[GeauxBears]

Everyone blames everything on estradiol. This has been fueled by misconceptions and misinformation started by the Life Extension inaccurate article and by our chauvinistic belief that any female hormone makes us emotional and bloated men with boobs. In fact, this is as much true as saying that testosterone makes women masculine and aggressive.

Most cases of emotional liability, water retention and even gynecomastia have nothing to do with the absolute value of estradiol but a lot to do with how this important hormone is balanced by testosterone, DHT, thyroid and IGF-1. Men with low T, low DHT and/or high IGF-1 in the presence of what consider "in range" estradiol can have higher risk of gynecomastia specially if they are genetically prone to that.

Not one study has linked estradiol in men with emotional issues. Not one.

This misinformation fails men. Men who wrongly think that anastrozole will solve all their evil estradiol issues. This has caused, in my opinion, the most mismanagement by cash-based clinics out there.

We must address emotional liability in men on or off testosterone beyond a false obsession based on tales.

Sleep quality, stress management/relaxation techniques, the use of SSRIs (yes, I said it), and cognitive therapy would do men good. Doctors that do not address those factors and who lead men to believe that an evil hormone makes men emotional and bloated beings should have the heads examined.

Sorry for the rant. It has been one of those days when I have received way too many emails fueling false hopes of sweet spots and bullshit that some doctors preach.

I agree with you that the answer to what ails us emotionally isn't always the absolute value of E2, but I don't need a study to confirm that imbalanced E2 causes emotional (or bloating) issues (with me, at least).