Dr Edward Litchten treatment protocol

[Cataceous]

...There's also some evidence that the slow, constant deposit of testosterone via pellet helps to slow down aromatization even more than daily injections.
...

What is the evidence? In theory it seems as though the opposite pattern is what reduces aromatization: relatively large spikes in testosterone saturate aromatase, reducing average estradiol production relative to average testosterone levels.

 

[ta406]

For almost everyone asking questions on this forum (which is a tiny subset of the total TRT population), "standard TRT" is not working. I see people on this forum constantly trying to make changes, the changes never working out, and very few success reports (such as "I feel fantastic, on top of the world, like a million bucks, every day").

Im sure these people would certainly benefit from the novel treatments Lichten uses. We seem to have a mentality here that dose amounts and dose frequency are the only two variables we can change. And that T and E2 are totally responsible for how we feel, ignoring gut health, ignoring neurotransmitters, ignoring other compounds.

I for one would love to see more discussions and videos about neurotransmitters

 

[Charliebizz]

I for one would love to see more discussions and videos about neurotransmitters

I’m with you on that bro. A simple thing that always comes to mind to me is how I feel the day after drinking. Even with a hangover my libido and erections are better the next day. My theory always been neurotransmitters

 

[wondering]

I for one would love to see more discussions and videos about neurotransmitters

Why I miss Dr. Mariano on the boards. I wonder when his book will be coming out. His forum has been offline for a long time as well.

 

[Vonko1988]

I don't know about this guy:
- dude is a gynecologist
- "if you push the testosterone up, you push the SHBG up"...really?
- he has a compounding pharmacies that make injectable test/nandro/stano?... but he uses pellets and regular stano tabs and nandro injections??
- how are you gonna get winstrol?
- environmental toxins?

I've watched this guy and everything he says seems highly illogical and even absurd to me

 

[slicktop]

What is the evidence? In theory it seems as though the opposite pattern is what reduces aromatization: relatively large spikes in testosterone saturate aromatase, reducing average estradiol production relative to average testosterone levels.

I'm not sure, honestly. It was something I heard the Doc say on the radio. He's adamant that pellet therapy is great, has been doing low t for a long time and this is the best thing ever, etc. The radio show host is a patient of his and he has him on every now and then to discuss mens health. I have no interest in pellet therapy myself so I didn't really make the effort to load it from short term to long term memory, ya know?

 

[Gman86]

I've watched this guy and everything he says seems highly illogical and even absurd to me

What part(s) seem illogical? Theoretically, everything I’ve heard him say seems to make a lot of sense.

 

[Charliebizz]

Why I miss Dr. Mariano on the boards. I wonder when his book will be coming out. His forum has been offline for a long time as well.

I know man his work is legit the only thing so far that has helped me in this journey and I was a patient of crisler also. Mariano is way ahead of everyone imo

 

[Vonko1988]

What part(s) seem illogical? Theoretically, everything I’ve heard him say seems to make a lot of sense.

Lets start with:

"if you push the testosterone up, you push the SHBG up"

A lot of his treatment protocol is based on this statement. For 99 percent of the guys starting TRT this is opposite, including me.

 

[bixt]

I've watched this guy and everything he says seems highly illogical and even absurd to me

Dude, this guy is old. Most guys his age have one foot in the grave.

You on the other hand, are quite sick. I follow your log on T nation, nothing works for you.

So why criticize this DOC who is in excellent health, clearly he must be doing something right?

So what if he is a gyno? He is a qualified DOC end of the day. It seems if a GP prescribes 200mg E2W thats fine, its by the rules even though a crap protocol. But just because this guy studied further in another field back in the day, he loses all credibility...

 

[Vonko1988]

Dude, this guy is old. Most guys his age have one foot in the grave.

You on the other hand, are quite sick. I follow your log on T nation, nothing works for you.

So why criticize this DOC who is in excellent health, clearly he must be doing something right?

So what if he is a gyno? He is a qualified DOC end of the day. It seems if a GP prescribes 200mg E2W thats fine, its by the rules even though a crap protocol. But just because this guy studied further in another field back in the day, he loses all credibility...

Maybe you follow somebody's else log, because everything works for me and I feel much better since starting TRT. Im just perfectionist regarding my health and like pay attention to even the smallest negative.

This doc is in excellent health? Have you seen how he looks?

I've seen a lot of doctors like him. All of them are qualified doctors and full of shit. This one is just a bit more unstandard and inovative in some very strange way, contradicting most of the best HRT doctors in the world.

Who says if a GP prescribes 200mg E2W it is fine? Definetely not me

 

[Charliebizz]

Lets start with:

"if you push the testosterone up, you push the SHBG up"

A lot of his treatment protocol is based on this statement. For 99 percent of the guys starting TRT this is opposite, including me.

this goes against everything I’ve ever read or heard and witnessed with me. My shbg drops 5-10 points anytime I use trt

 

[bixt]

this goes against everything I’ve ever read or heard and witnessed with me. My shbg drops 5-10 points anytime I use trt

That’s also why I’m always on the fence about trt. Why is my testosterone low.

Sometimes I wonder why is it only the unwell, the undialed and the most atypical responders to compounds see fit to critique the most and are the most vocal on forums. Don't forget there was a time not too long ago when any doc ditching AIs was also condemned to the asylum. Let the medically supervised cutting edge therapies continue, sooner or later the good stuff that works makes its way to the mainstream and we all benefit.

 

[Charliebizz]

Sometimes I wonder why is it only the unwell, the undialed and the most atypical responders to compounds see fit to critique the most and are the most vocal on forums. Don't forget there was a time not too long ago when any doc ditching AIs was also condemned to the asylum. Let the medically supervised cutting edge therapies continue, sooner or later the good stuff that works makes its way to the mainstream and we all benefit.

Are you kidding me bro. Because your dialed in your an authority? Your following a cult that just believes in adding more and more t with no science to back it up. You wanna poll every man on this forum and Facebook and all the other trt forums and see what happens to there shbg when they go on testosterone? I’m not saying the man has not helped people and I’m glad people are trying to push trt forward but some things the man says are outlandish but r not even close to practical. Not everyone wants to be on fucking 35 hormones to feel like a decent human. I’ve tried more cutting edge things then you can shake a stick at and I will never say because they don’t work for me they might not work for you please don’t twist my words. I’m just pointing out facts about shbg.

 

[Gman86]

Lets start with:

"if you push the testosterone up, you push the SHBG up"

A lot of his treatment protocol is based on this statement. For 99 percent of the guys starting TRT this is opposite, including me.

Me included. And from what I’ve heard and seen, he’s 100% wrong on that. Good point.

 

[Gman86]

Sometimes I wonder why is it only the unwell, the undialed and the most atypical responders to compounds see fit to critique the most and are the most vocal on forums. Don't forget there was a time not too long ago when any doc ditching AIs was also condemned to the asylum. Let the medically supervised cutting edge therapies continue, sooner or later the good stuff that works makes its way to the mainstream and we all benefit.

Exsctly. Very well said. Humans love comfort. They fear things that are new, and that they don’t fully understand. I’m not saying dr Lichten is right on everything he says, but imo, what he’s saying makes a lot of sense, and he’s progressing HRT forward, by not being a sheep, and thinking outside the box. It’s not his job to completely figure out this HRT thing. It’s much bigger than him. As patients, we still have to do our homework and make educated decisions. And if you don’t want to do that homework, I get it, but you still have to do your homework on which doctor that you think is going to give you the best chance of success. There’s not one way to do HRT. There’s many different ways to do this successfully. As a patient, you have to choose which doctor you feel is currently “right” in the way they practice HRT. But by no means does that make all other HRT doctors “wrong”

 

[Blackhawk]

I want to know more about Lichten's specialty $3500 test. How valid is it, and does he have any personal financial interest in it?

 

[Charliebizz]

Exsctly. Very well said. Humans love comfort. They fear things that are new, and that they don’t fully understand. I’m not saying dr Lichten is right on everything he says, but imo, what he’s saying makes a lot of sense, and he’s progressing HRT forward, by not being a sheep, and thinking outside the box. It’s not his job to completely figure out this HRT thing. It’s much bigger than him. As patients, we still have to do our homework and make educated decisions. And if you don’t want to do that homework, I get it, but you still have to do your homework on which doctor that you think is going to give you the best chance of success. There’s not one way to do HRT. There’s many different ways to do this successfully. As a patient, you have to choose which doctor you feel is currently “right” in the way they practice HRT. But by no means does that make all other HRT doctors “wrong”

but your missing my point. It’s not about being sheep and being comfortable at all. He legit says what kind of patients he treats in his own interview. He isn’t treating guys like most of them men on these forums. So you don’t even know if his treatmeants would work for guys like us. I’m sure some of these compounds can work wonders for guys like us my whole point is that bossa having him on was misguided till the very end when dr l basically said he’s treating very sick people with steroid hormones. I get that trt needs to be more then one hormone I’ve been around this shit for over 10 years. Every hormone I take throws another one off. So just because I haven’t found what works for me doesn’t mean I do not possess logic. And I also understand that a lot of findings in medicine come out on accident. Like what viagra was original to intended for. I get it all it’s like a few of you are trying to pick fights because your justifying using all these compounds to feel better and right now the world looks down on it. It’s cool guys I’m glad you found what works and it’s your body and your life but your not going to find that everyone shares your opinion. Some people want concrete evidence that they aren’t fucking themselves up long term. Come on gman you said yourself when I told you how I resolved brain fog my just quit lifting. It’s part of you life and girls wanna fuck your arms. It’s more then just feeling good for you bro and that’s completely fine your going with the risk vs reward theory and a lot of use do. Don’t call people sheep because they aren’t ready to jump on this new wave bandwagon. If you’ve been around long enough you’ve seen how many of the things turned into short lived flashes in the pan. I look at all the things that that fucked guys up long term over the years for trying to fix shit like hair loss. Come on man don’t try and make this us vs them cause we are Cautious with things as fragile as our endocrine system

 

[Gman86]

but your missing my point. It’s not about being sheep and being comfortable at all. He legit says what kind of patients he treats in his own interview. He isn’t treating guys like most of them men on these forums. So you don’t even know if his treatmeants would work for guys like us. I’m sure some of these compounds can work wonders for guys like us my whole point is that bossa having him on was misguided till the very end when dr l basically said he’s treating very sick people with steroid hormones. I get that trt needs to be more then one hormone I’ve been around this shit for over 10 years. Every hormone I take throws another one off. So just because I haven’t found what works for me doesn’t mean I do not possess logic. And I also understand that a lot of findings in medicine come out on accident. Like what viagra was original to intended for. I get it all it’s like a few of you are trying to pick fights because your justifying using all these compounds to feel better and right now the world looks down on it. It’s cool guys I’m glad you found what works and it’s your body and your life but your not going to find that everyone shares your opinion. Some people want concrete evidence that they aren’t fucking themselves up long term. Come on gman you said yourself when I told you how I resolved brain fog my just quit lifting. It’s part of you life and girls wanna fuck your arms. It’s more then just feeling good for you bro and that’s completely fine your going with the risk vs reward theory and a lot of use do. Don’t call people sheep because they aren’t ready to jump on this new wave bandwagon. If you’ve been around long enough you’ve seen how many of the things turned into short lived flashes in the pan. I look at all the things that that fucked guys up long term over the years for trying to fix shit like hair loss. Come on man don’t try and make this us vs them cause we are Cautious with things as fragile as our endocrine system

Idk what to tell you man. Every message from you on here is you complaining about what people say, what they do, what they choose to do with their protocol, and how they think. I’ll be completely honest, and I know this sounds harsh, but until you are feeling better, maybe this forum isn’t the best place for you. You don’t seem to be getting any benefit out of this. All I see is this forum giving you a place to complain about what other people are doing and saying on here, and on the fb groups.

 

[Charliebizz]

Idk what to tell you man. Every message from you on here is you complaining about what people say, what they do, what they choose to do with their protocol, and how they think. I’ll be completely honest, and I know this sounds harsh, but until you are feeling better, maybe this forum isn’t the best place for you. You don’t seem to be getting any benefit out of this. All I see is this forum giving you a place to complain about what other people are doing and saying on here, and on the fb groups.

whats the forum for buddy searching for answers right. Go back and read all your posts. Your all over the fucking place one minute you’re feel great then you say you change protocal cause it’s in your nature to tinker with shit then you say your not dialed in what is it ? Don’t be mad cause I’m telling it like it is your over here trying to justify to yourself that your on this shit for optimal health and your obviously on it for your fragile ego didn’t you just say you had a kid recently and yet your in the back banging nurses. Seems like you do a lot of shit for all the right reasons kiddo. If everyone on excel is so negative to your beliefs why don’t you just stay on the fb group your always trying to protect. Your over here calling us all sheep. I’m not complaining at all I’m sharing my experience and I constantly have guys sending me pm that are in similar situations but this forum isn’t for me?