Dr Edward Litchten treatment protocol

[rayrock1]

I watched this video someone posted here:

He uses testosterone pellets with stanozolol and nandrolone, no AI. Just wondering if anyone is a patient of his or using this protocol. Want to start TRT and either considering using him or the people at Defy. Thanks

 

[fifty]

I don't know about this guy:
- dude is a gynecologist
- "if you push the testosterone up, you push the SHBG up"...really?
- he has a compounding pharmacies that make injectable test/nandro/stano?... but he uses pellets and regular stano tabs and nandro injections??
- how are you gonna get winstrol?
- environmental toxins?

 

[Gman86]

I don't know about this guy:
- dude is a gynecologist
- "if you push the testosterone up, you push the SHBG up"...really?
- he has a compounding pharmacies that make injectable test/nandro/stano?... but he uses pellets and regular stano tabs and nandro injections??
- how are you gonna get winstrol?
- environmental toxins?

Is Winstrol legal to prescribe in the u.s.?

 

[Gman86]

Dr Lichten definitely knows his stuff. I’ve been following him for years. You have to go see him in person though, which kind of sucks. At least with Defy you can live in any state, and never have to physically go there. I’m with defy and couldn’t be happier.

 

[fifty]

You can get a flight to Detroit for $100 from many major cities across the US. For the amount people complain about issues, if the treatment works, I'm sure it would be worth the day adventure.

 

[Charliebizz]

If this is the video I watched a few months ago. He is not talking about standard trt. He uses this line of treatment for complications of crohns and other auto- immune type illnesses. Unless you have something mAjor going on I wouldn’t even remotely consider using him for trt. This is why I have a problem with that ******** group.

 

[Gman86]

If this is the video I watched a few months ago. He is not talking about standard trt. He uses this line of treatment for complications of crohns and other auto- immune type illnesses. Unless you have something mAjor going on I wouldn’t even remotely consider using him for trt. This is why I have a problem with that ******** group.

It seems like his protocols make sense for even just the regular Joe Shmoe that needs TRT, imo. 120-160mg of test per week to boost testosterone levels. 40-60mg of nandrolone per week for its anti-inflammatory/ joint benefits, as well as its ability to free up testosterone, thus increasing the free T to E2 ratio. Then with select high SHBG patients, he implements a very small dose of stanozolol to lower SHBG, and increase free T, again improving the free T to E2 ratio, and ultimately eliminating the need to use ai’s.

 

[Charliebizz]

Good luck trying to manage all that. I respect the guys work. But not for standard trt

 

[fifty]

Yeah imagine you get a pellet and start injecting nadrolone and it doesn't work out. Have fun for the first 2 months...

Then he sells some blood test that's $3,500 that can better predict whether such a protocol may work for you.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

It's not "standard TRT", but "standard" is only our current acceptance of what we see as normal. The anabolics that are mentioned in the video can be safely prescribed to help in a wide array of health issues. And yes they are legal in the US. They are more progressive treatments. Guys heal faster, have less pain, lose fat, can reverse metabolic diseases, and they are happier and hornier. Women too. Defy can prescribe them after reviewing lab results for safety and discussing with patients.

 

[Charliebizz]

It's not "standard TRT", but "standard" is only our current acceptance of what we see as normal. The anabolics that are mentioned in the video can be safely prescribed to help in a wide array of health issues. And yes they are legal in the US. They are more progressive treatments. Guys heal faster, have less pain, lose fat, can reverse metabolic diseases, and they are happier and hornier. Women too. Defy can prescribe them after reviewing lab results for safety and discussing with patients.

I fully understand that. But adding one variable is tricky enough in the current state of trt imagine all this and like fifty said using pellets also. Not for me

 

[Jason Sypolt]

I fully understand that. But adding one variable is tricky enough in the current state of trt imagine all this and like fifty said using pellets also. Not for me

I would not opt for pellets either. They are supposed to be more convenient but I don't personally see that unless I had a career of being all over the place such as a pilot or first responder where planning around taking medications isn't an option.

You definitely have to find a pace that you are comfortable with and a provider who will listen to you and respect that. Your health is a two-way conversation. TRT for me is too narrow of a window to look through. It's just testosterone and the body has dozens of other hormones that either affect T, or are affected by T, or both. Testosterone is the name everyone knows that gets them interested in improving their health. And that is not a bad thing. But I spent a good year and a half meticulously trying to tweak one thing at a time just for TRT and then plotting and analyzing the results, and that held me back from feeling better sooner. Instead, I should have had a lot more lab testing done upfront to look at my entire body, identified all of the issues from that, and worked with my doctor to come up with a comprehensive plan to tackle the problems as a whole, not in isolation from each other. Looking at it from comprehensive hormone replacement, not just testosterone replacement in other words. It would have been more expensive upfront, but then I wonder how much I spent in repeated TRT-only labs only to ultimately find out anyway that hypogonadism was never all that was wrong to begin with.

So if I were doing this again and not feeling great on TRT, this is the most logical strategy to me:

• Get as many lab tests as I could afford at once. I have a long list.
• Identify the deficiencies and problems and how they relate to each other from those lab results and my symptoms.
• Get on the medications and supplements that cast the widest net in addressing these.
• Then start adjusting and tweaking.

 

[bixt]

Good luck trying to manage all that. I respect the guys work. But not for standard trt

For almost everyone asking questions on this forum (which is a tiny subset of the total TRT population), "standard TRT" is not working. I see people on this forum constantly trying to make changes, the changes never working out, and very few success reports (such as "I feel fantastic, on top of the world, like a million bucks, every day").

Im sure these people would certainly benefit from the novel treatments Lichten uses. We seem to have a mentality here that dose amounts and dose frequency are the only two variables we can change. And that T and E2 are totally responsible for how we feel, ignoring gut health, ignoring neurotransmitters, ignoring other compounds.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

For almost everyone asking questions on this forum (which is a tiny subset of the total TRT population), "standard TRT" is not working. I see people on this forum constantly trying to make changes, the changes never working out, and very few success reports (such as "I feel fantastic, on top of the world, like a million bucks, every day").

Im sure these people would certainly benefit from the novel treatments Lichten uses. We seem to have a mentality here that dose amounts and dose frequency are the only two variables we can change. And that T and E2 are totally responsible for how we feel, ignoring gut health, ignoring neurotransmitters, ignoring other compounds.

Exactly. Look, it's in our nature to want a quick and easy fix and a clear label to our problems because this is sometimes frightening to go through, but that is just not how our bodies work. There is far more involved than "TRT" in virtually every person. And we're getting older minute by minute and causing changes on top of that. To be blunt, if it were as easy as getting a shot in your arm or ass once or twice a week then no one would need to come here, ever. We should be so lucky that we live in a time where all of these compounds are available to improve our quality of life. Testosterone is not THE answer, and it never was.

 

[bixt]

It seems like his protocols make sense for even just the regular Joe Shmoe that needs TRT, imo. 120-160mg of test per week to boost testosterone levels. 40-60mg of nandrolone per week for its anti-inflammatory/ joint benefits, as well as its ability to free up testosterone, thus increasing the free T to E2 ratio. Then with select high SHBG patients, he implements a very small dose of stanozolol to lower SHBG, and increase free T, again improving the free T to E2 ratio, and ultimately eliminating the need to use ai’s.

You good sir have provided an excellent and concise summary of Lichtens method. I have saved an offline copy of your post along with the video, while I don't need it right now, its like gold in the vault for a rainy day if ever one comes. Thanks!

 

[Charliebizz]

I understand what you guys are saying and that was the point I made. I said it’s not for standard low t guys. It’s for more sickly men. And that is some of us on this forum. I personally have tried a ton of different stuff I’ve been at this along time. I was a patient of crisler. He offered it we tried it. I’ve been on extensive Lyme protocols. I’ve tried holistic. Tons of shit for me it’s been the simplest approaches that helped me

 

[Charliebizz]

That’s also why I’m always on the fence about trt. Why is my testosterone low. And how can just fixing that fix all my issues. So far it hasn’t for me. But I couldn’t imagine trying to manage all those medications dr l uses. I would have to be really sick. Right now even with low t I get through life fine. I feel ok most of my issues are pain and low eq and libido. I do want to feel good so that’s why I’m trying trt again

 

[Gman86]

You good sir have provided an excellent and concise summary of Lichtens method. I have saved an offline copy of your post along with the video, while I don't need it right now, its like gold in the vault for a rainy day if ever one comes. Thanks!

Anytime. Been following him for a long time. He has some excellent podcasts from 2011 and 2012. The future of HRT includes other AAS compounds. Dr. Lichten was ahead of his time, in this regard. He’s been taking advantage of these tools for 15+ years. He saw the benefits of using these, in conjunction with testosterone, before anybody I can think of. It’s awesome to finally see top doctors starting to implement these tools as well.

Im not saying everyone has to take advantage of these tools, but it’s just nice to have options. It would suck to be hypothyroid, and only have one medication to treat it. Would suck if someone had pain, and could only take advantage of one med. would suck to have depression, and have only one med to treat it, and if it doesn’t work, all you can do is adjust the dosage. It’s just nice to have other options than just testosterone injections, which can be a very complicated way to treat an androgen deficiency, due to its very high rate of aromatization.

 

[Charliebizz]

That’s what I’m going through I can’t even get t alone to not cause side effects.

 

[slicktop]

I can't find the name(s), but there's a couple doctors that specialize in testosterone pellets for men in Houston. One does an hour spot on a local radio show like every six months or something. Anyways, in the interview I heard, the doctor recommended getting a patient "dialed in" in traditional methods (t shots, etc) for at least six months, and once they're steady and happy and have their dosage figured out, moving to pellets. Supposedly you can get the pellets really specific for dosing, but I don't know if I believe that and haven't csared to look into it. There's also some evidence that the slow, constant deposit of testosterone via pellet helps to slow down aromatization even more than daily injections.

It's funny how it's so different for different people- my wife gets testosterone pellets every three months and can't believe I can stand to give myself shots. I can't believe she goes to a doctor's office and has something sewn up inside her ass every three months.