Does Anyone Feel Better on an AI?

[Fortunate]

I know this topic has been beaten to death and with a little legwork, I am sure to find dozens of threads on this, so I apologize. But, like many here, I am still perplexed on why most forms of TRT I have tried cause side effects that outweigh the benefits. I have a ton of posts out there, but have not posted lately, as I have resigned myself to sticking with Natesto and hCG - the only combo that does not make me anxious and/or give me headaches. I have tried cypionate, enanthate, propionate, IM, SC, various doses, various intervals. I have tried enanthate with and without preservatives. I have tried various oils. I have tried high, medium and low dose cream, scrotal and elsewhere. My primary struggle has been headaches.

I tracked my response to TRT diligently for over six months. On a spreadsheet. That's how anal I have been. During a recent call with Defy, we proposed the theory that my trouble is not likely from testosterone, but rather from metabolites. To test that theory, I started using low dose nandrolone, to see if I get the same headache triggers. As it turns out, I did not have the same reaction as I do with most forms of TRT. It didn't give me the familiar headache, but I am not sure I necessarily liked it. Wouldn't rule it out altogether, but I got nervous with all the negative experiences shared out there.

All that said, if in fact metabolites are the source of my headaches, specifically estrogen, perhaps using and AI would be a simple way to solve my problems. I realize AI's have fallen out of favor. In fact, the TRT community seems to now champion high e2 and its various health benefits. I think, but am not sure, that I do better with low e2.

I have been on anastrazole a bit here and there in the past, but not consistently enough to know if it helps or hurts. I also never quite knew how to time using it.

Sorry - this post is a long run for a short slide (a lot of preamble for a simple question). But, since anastrazole has gotten villianized so much in the recent past, I would like to hear some anecdotes of guys who need it. How much do you take? How do you time it? How convinced are you that it makes you feel better? If you use it, do you rely on labs as a guide or a confirmatory tool?

 

[Gman86]

It’s a common topic, but ur post and questions are still important. It’s important to go over the same topics from time to time as things change so rapidly in this community. I’d also love to hear from others who have seen positive benefits from using ai’s in their protocol. I’ve seen too many positive anecdotes where it was the missing key for people, so they definitely have their place. It’s just extremely individual whether it’s necessary or not, which makes it difficult to generally speak about whether a guy should be on one or not. But it’s the same thing with almost everything in HRT. Pregnenolone, progesterone, HCG. Some men say they were the missing key to getting their protocol dialed in, and others say they feel absolutely horribly using any of those compounds. Same with ai’s. But when E2 is kept in a decently healthy range, can ai’s still cause negative effects within the body? Im not sure if the evidence is clear that they do. Same with nandrolone. I’m not convinced that when used in doses between 50-100mg/ week that there’s enough evidence to show that anybody should be concerned with running those doses indefinitely. What I’m trying to say is all of these compounds have a place in HRT, imo, but they’re not for everyone. We just have to figure out what works for us as individuals. But personal anecdotes are still my favorite thing to base my decisions on, so I would love to hear anybody’s personal experience where ai’s were of benefit for them when adding it to their protocol

 

[Fortunate]

@Cataceous, I need your brain on this. I don’t believe you are on an AI. That said, I wonder if you have any thoughts on timing of an AI? My goal would be to introduce the AI prior to aromitization and keep the levels in correlation with T levels.

I am thinking about trying Xyosted again with an AI. Downside is that it’s once a week, so peaks and valleys are real. Does anyone know how quickly anastrazole is physiologically doing it’s job (bioactive)? Also, based on anastrazole’s half life, considerring metabolization and elimination, how long would it be effectively doing it’s job? If I dose Xyosted once a week, would I have to dose anastrazole more than once a week?

I still don’t know if E2 is the culprit for any of my issues, but I do know it takes roughly 4-6 hours for me to develop a headache with injectable T and 10-12 hours for me to feel a crash and shitty with cream. When I get a chance, I will look to see if these timelines might correlate at all with data on E2 levels.

 

[MIP1950]

@Gman86 and I were discussing this as part of a thread started by @ggenovez who is taking, IIRC, 3.5 mg of anastrazole, weekly and he says he feels great and has good sexual function. I will be discussing this with my urologist. I do wonder, for some men, if E2 is overexpressed in the hypothalamus, thus blocking androgen receptors from 'seeing' the testosterone that is being injected. By getting E2 down to <5 pg, it allows the receptors to respond to the exogenous testosterone. I don't believe my thoughts on the subject are original and they might be incorrect, but I have to wonder why some men feel and function, better, with such extremely low E2.

 

[Cataceous]

@Cataceous, I need your brain on this. I don’t believe you are on an AI. That said, I wonder if you have any thoughts on timing of an AI? My goal would be to introduce the AI prior to aromitization and keep the levels in correlation with T levels.

I am thinking about trying Xyosted again with an AI. Downside is that it’s once a week, so peaks and valleys are real. Does anyone know how quickly anastrazole is physiologically doing it’s job (bioactive)? Also, based on anastrazole’s half life, considerring metabolization and elimination, how long would it be effectively doing it’s job? If I dose Xyosted once a week, would I have to dose anastrazole more than once a week?
...

When I used an AI I took small doses daily or EOD. More frequent and uniform dosing would tend to reduce the overall aromatization rate. If you're wanting to match relative AI levels to testosterone levels then the effect presumably is more one of limiting peak estradiol, also causing more variation in the E2/T ratio.

Xyosted produces less variation in serum testosterone than standard enanthate or cypionate formulations. At 10 days, its apparent half-life is twice as long. I believe plasma levels of anastrozole peak soon after ingestion, something like an hour or two. So it should be doing its job pretty quickly. The half-life is about two days. If you want to pursue this then you would get the graph of average serum testosterone levels from the Xyosted clinical trials and match the relative AI dose to the relative amount of serum testosterone at the particular time point in the weekly injection cycle. Dosing should be at least daily—the more frequent the dosing the better the match.

 

[Fortunate]

Interesting. Didn’t realize you took an AI. What dose were you using? Currently, I have 0.25 mg tablets. I suspect I can probably get it down even lower.

 

[Fortunate]

When I used an AI I took small doses daily or EOD. More frequent and uniform dosing would tend to reduce the overall aromatization rate. If you're wanting to match relative AI levels to testosterone levels then the effect presumably is more one of limiting peak estradiol, also causing more variation in the E2/T ratio.

Xyosted produces less variation in serum testosterone than standard enanthate or cypionate formulations. At 10 days, its apparent half-life is twice as long. I believe plasma levels of anastrozole peak soon after ingestion, something like an hour or two. So it should be doing its job pretty quickly. The half-life is about two days. If you want to pursue this then you would get the graph of average serum testosterone levels from the Xyosted clinical trials and match the relative AI dose to the relative amount of serum testosterone at the particular time point in the weekly injection cycle. Dosing should be at least daily—the more frequent the dosing the better the match.

Also, curious why you started the AI and why you stopped it?

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

I just got off of hcg for about a week and immediately i notice a change in acne on my shoulders and oily skin. Why does it cause such acne and oil? Is it increase in dht, test, or both or rather something else?

 

[Fortunate]

I just got off of hcg for about a week and immediately i notice a change in acne on my shoulders and oily skin. Why does it cause such acne and oil? Is it increase in dht, test, or both or rather something else?

hCG does the same to me. I always assumed it was due to DHT, but I’m not actually certain.

 

[Gman86]

I just got off of hcg for about a week and immediately i notice a change in acne on my shoulders and oily skin. Why does it cause such acne and oil? Is it increase in dht, test, or both or rather something else?

Did u notice oily skin and acne while on it or after u came off of it?

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

Did u notice oily skin and acne while on it or after u came off of it?

Im sorry, yes more acne when on it.

 

[Cataceous]

Interesting. Didn’t realize you took an AI. What dose were you using? Currently, I have 0.25 mg tablets. I suspect I can probably get it down even lower.

I took doses averaging from 25 to 45 mcg per day. The most common protocol was 70 mcg EOD taken at the time of injection. I diluted 1 mg tablets in vodka to obtain the desired precision.

Also, curious why you started the AI and why you stopped it?

Regarding use: Initially I was concerned about the high absolute level of estradiol, 50-60 pg/mL. Later it was because the side effect of excessive emotional sensitivity was becoming tiresome. Later still it was because I thought it possible that the estradiol was responsible for the gradual rise in prolactin and attendant side effects. As for stopping: Although anastrozole and cabergoline did ameliorate the side effects to an extent, the results were not good enough to justify the possible long-term risks in using these medications. I went back to basics and decided that hCG use was throwing everything off. That's when I made the switch to gonadorelin, which pretty much resolved the issues, at the cost of a complex protocol and the use of enclomiphene.

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

I took doses averaging from 25 to 45 mcg per day. The most common protocol was 70 mcg EOD taken at the time of injection. I diluted 1 mg tablets in vodka to obtain the desired precision.

Regarding use: Initially I was concerned about the high absolute level of estradiol, 50-60 pg/mL. Later it was because the side effect of excessive emotional sensitivity was becoming tiresome. Later still it was because I thought it possible that the estradiol was responsible for the gradual rise in prolactin and attendant side effects. As for stopping: Although anastrozole and cabergoline did ameliorate the side effects to an extent, the results were not good enough to justify the possible long-term risks in using these medications. I went back to basics and decided that hCG use was throwing everything off. That's when I made the switch to gonadorelin, which pretty much resolved the issues, at the cost of a complex protocol and the use of enclomiphene.

So you use gonadorelin with test or no test just clomid?

 

[Cataceous]

So you use gonadorelin with test or no test just clomid?

With TRT. But this protocol is more hassle than most will want, and there's also a suspicion that enclomiphene can sabotage the subjective results in some cases.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Some past discussions here:

How fast does anastrozole /Arimidex make you feel better when your estradiol is high?

Hi, I am trying to determine the effectiveness of my Anaztrozole dose. So, I know the effect is inmediatly, but I assume if you were super high on E2, you wont get to low or normal E2 in a matter of minutes or even a few hours. Since the existing E2 in your body has to be depleted first, so I...

www.excelmale.com

Has Anyone Felt Better After Adding in an AI

Just a random question that I am curious to hear the answer to. "Better" could mean anything and I would like to hear what better meant for you. I know AIs are used as a last resort so I am not encouraging anyone to take an AI, I really just want to hear experiences.

www.excelmale.com

How Long to Feel Better Off AI??

I was looking for the experiences of guys that have successfully gotten off of an AI. How long did it take to feel better? The anti-AI crowd swear with 100% certainty that your body “just needs to adjust”. Some say a couple weeks and some say a month or so. I have never been able to successfully...

www.excelmale.com

Questions for men on anastrozole who have crashed their E2 Levels

I have a few questions for those who have crashed their e2 levels. How low did your E2 levels go? How long did it take to recover? Did anything help you raise your levels? I have searched on this and other forums and all I can see is that people have either upped their test dose, which for me...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Graham]

I personally don’t feel good on it, it negatively effects my mood and I feel “dumber” on it.

 

[Gman86]

I personally don’t feel good on it, it negatively effects my mood and I feel “dumber” on it.

What dose(s) have u used?

 

[Graham]

I have most recently tried .125 mg and even that gives me some of the negative sides.

 

[Gman86]

I have most recently tried .125 mg and even that gives me some of the negative sides.

Have been looking into zinc quite a bit as a method to lower E2, and possibly DHT. Have u ever supplemented with zinc? Do u even have E2 issues still, or u already resolved them?

 

[Graham]

I have taken zinc, it will help if you get the right type. I changed my injection frequency and reduced my dosage and it keeps my estrogen in range though near the top. My old trt doctor thought that even though my estrogen was barely in range that my free estrogen was too high. I haven’t given it too much thought lately.